Sorcerer?RDD

[Legacy_Westan Willows]

               I am going to built a Sorc/RDD. How maney RDD lvs should I take at a time. I don't want a lv 16 Sorc/RDD who can only cast lv3 spells (and only one of thoes ) He is starting out at

STR 8
DEX 10
CON 14
WIS 8
INT 14
CHA 18.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MrZork]

               You need to give more detail on what you want the toon to do, where you will play it, etc. Why are you choosing that class combination? Is he primarily a spellcaster who incidentally happens to be quite strong? Is this for a particular SP module or modules? Is he going to be a sword mage? And so on.

(Yes, he's obviously not, going to be a swordmage, but those sorts of details can give other readers some idea of the advice that might be useful to you.)
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Empyre65]

               I looked in the Epic Character Search Engine and saw no builds with Sorcerer / RDD without a third class. Also, even the ones with 20 or more levels of Sorcerer focused on making the character a warrior first and a caster afterward.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Elhanan]

               At a glance, perhaps 30 Sor/ 10 RDD; 4 RDD pre-Epic, and the rest in Epic lvls. However, I am not a fan of either class, and am uncertain if the pre-Epic RDD addition is warranted.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Westan Willows]

               

MrZork wrote...

You need to give more detail on what you want the toon to do, where you will play it, etc. Why are you choosing that class combination? Is he primarily a spellcaster who incidentally happens to be quite strong? Is this for a particular SP module or modules? Is he going to be a sword mage? And so on.

(Yes, he's obviously not, going to be a swordmage, but those sorts of details can give other readers some idea of the advice that might be useful to you.)

    He will be primanily a spellcaster. He will play in the OC SoU HotU Sands of Fate etc. I am going SP. If he ever takes WF it will be Morningstar. <><>

               
            

[Legacy_Westan Willows]

               

Empyre65 wrote...

I looked in the Epic Character Search Engine and saw no builds with Sorcerer / RDD without a third class. Also, even the ones with 20 or more levels of Sorcerer focused on making the character a warrior first and a caster afterward.

 Thanks for the link. I will look at some of the builds and see if they will work for me. The build must be playable from lv1 up:happy:
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Westan Willows]

               

Elhanan wrote...

At a glance, perhaps 30 Sor/ 10 RDD; 4 RDD pre-Epic, and the rest in Epic lvls. However, I am not a fan of either class, and am uncertain if the pre-Epic RDD addition is warranted.

 That should work. I"ll have +1 matual armor, +2 str and dradon breath. and still have 8 lv spells. thanks.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Westan Willows]

               I am trying 'The Transcending Knight' by Mick Dagger.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Empyre65]

               It's a shame that he didn't take Blind Fight, but it would be hard to work it in because the build is so feat starved. As-is, he takes 2 pre-epic feats in epic levels. Mick Dagger is still around, so he might be able to offer some tweaks on his own build, drawing 9 years of additional experience.

Now that I know where you will be playing this, here's a heavily tweaked version (drawing on my additional experience since then) of a build I played in the same modules back in '08:

Dragon Knight 3 (Paladin 29 / Sorcerer 1 / Red Dragon Disciple 10)
Human, Lawful Good
Playable 1 - 40, PvM
Optimized for SoU, Hotu, and Sands of fate

Abilities:
STR: 16 (38)
DEX: 8
CON: 12 (14)
WIS: 14
INT: 12 (14)
CHA: 14 (16)

Leveling Guide:
Human: (Quick to Master)
01: Paladin(1): Weapon Focus: Longsword, Power Attack
02: Paladin(2): {Smite Evil}
03: Paladin(3): Cleave
04: Paladin(4): STR+1, (STR=17)
05: Paladin(5)
06: Sorcerer(1): Blind Fight
07: Red Dragon Disciple(1)
08: Red Dragon Disciple(2): STR+1, (STR=20)
09: Paladin(6): Knockdown
10: Paladin(7)
11: Paladin(
12: Paladin(9): STR+1, Toughness, (STR=21)
13: Red Dragon Disciple(3)
14: Red Dragon Disciple(4): (STR=23)
15: Paladin(10): Improved Critical: Longsword
16: Paladin(11): STR+1, (STR=24)
17: Paladin(12)
18: Paladin(13): Great Cleave
19: Paladin(14)
20: Paladin(15): STR+1, (STR=25)
21: Red Dragon Disciple(5): Epic Weapon Focus: Longsword
22: Red Dragon Disciple(6)
23: Red Dragon Disciple(7): (CON=14)
24: Red Dragon Disciple(: STR+1, Overwhelming Critical: Longsword, (STR=26)
25: Red Dragon Disciple(9): (INT=14)
26: Red Dragon Disciple(10): {Darkvision}, (STR=30), (CHA=16)
27: Paladin(16): Devastating Critical: Longsword
28: Paladin(17): STR+1, (STR=31)
29: Paladin(18)
30: Paladin(19): Great Strength I, (STR=32)
31: Paladin(20)
32: Paladin(21): STR+1, (STR=33)
33: Paladin(22): Great Strength II, (STR=34)
34: Paladin(23): Armor Skin
35: Paladin(24)
36: Paladin(25): STR+1, Great Strength III, (STR=36)
37: Paladin(26): Epic Prowess
38: Paladin(27)
39: Paladin(28): Great Strength IV, (STR=37)
40: Paladin(29): STR+1, Epic Toughness I, (STR=38)

Stats:
Hitpoints: 518
Skillpoints: 187
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 28/26/18
Saving Throw bonuses: Spells: +5
BAB: 28
AB (max, naked): 46 (melee), 28 (ranged)
AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 19/30
Spell Casting: Paladin(4),Sorcerer(1)
Alignment Changes: 0

Skills:
Discipline 43(57), Lore 19(21), Search 29(31), Spellcraft 27(29), Spot 29(31), Tumble 20(19)

01: Discipline(4), Lore(4), Save(
02: Discipline(1), Lore(1), Save(10)
03: Discipline(1), Lore(1), Save(12)
04: Discipline(1), Lore(1), Save(14)
05: Discipline(1), Lore(1), Save(16)
06: Spellcraft(9), Save(11)
07: Discipline(2), Search(2), Spellcraft(1), Spot(10)
08: Discipline(1), Search(1), Spellcraft(1), Spot(1)
09: Discipline(1), Save(3)
10: Discipline(1), Save(6)
11: Discipline(1), Save(9)
12: Discipline(1), Save(12)
13: Discipline(1), Search(5), Spellcraft(5), Spot(5)
14: Discipline(1), Search(1), Spellcraft(1), Spot(1)
15: Discipline(1), Save(3)
16: Discipline(1), Save(6)
17: Discipline(1), Save(9)
18: Discipline(1), Save(12)
19: Discipline(1), Save(15)
20: Discipline(1), Save(18)
21: Discipline(1), Search(7), Spellcraft(7), Spot(7)
22: Search(2), Spellcraft(1), Spot(1)
23: Search(2), Spellcraft(1), Spot(1)
24: Search(2), Spellcraft(1), Spot(1)
25: Search(3), Spot(1)
26: Search(4), Spot(1)
27: Discipline(5)
28: Discipline(2), Lore(1), Tumble(1)
29: Discipline(1), Tumble(2)
30: Discipline(1), Tumble(2)
31: Discipline(1), Tumble(2)
32: Discipline(1), Tumble(2)
33: Discipline(1), Tumble(2)
34: Discipline(1), Tumble(2)
35: Discipline(1), Tumble(2)
36: Discipline(1), Tumble(2)
37: Discipline(1), Tumble(2)
38: Discipline(1), Lore(2), Tumble(1)
39: Discipline(1), Lore(4)
40: Discipline(1), Lore(4)
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MrZork]

               

Empyre65 wrote...
Dragon Knight 3 (Paladin 29 / Sorcerer 1 / Red Dragon Disciple 10)

Westan said he wants this toon to be "primanily a spellcaster". Maybe reverse the paladin/sorc ratio? ;-)

Westan, there are several builds on the search engine with 20+ sorcerer levels. I would suggest starting with one of those and see if any of them catches your eye.

BTW, am still not sure what exactly you are hoping to get from RDD in this build?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_rogueknight333]

               The main benefits of RDD (AC and Stat bonuses, especially strength) are most valuable to a melee combatant, which means that as a general rule there is not a lot of point to using RDD levels in a build meant to be primarily a spellcaster. Usually Bard, being relatively better than Sorcs at melee, is a better choice for RDDs. The main reason to use Sorc instead is if you are making a Paladin/RDD, in which case you will normally have to use Sorc rather than Bard due to alignment conflicts.

If you do want to play a spellsword build who is primarily a caster but still makes some use of RDD I suggest something like Paladin 4/Sorcerer 26/RDD 10. Paladin is probably the most effective class you could add to Sorc/RDD, but if you have alignment conflicts or other RP reasons why you do not want to use it, you can substitute Fighter levels (or really just about any warrior class) instead (at least if you are human or half-elf, as other races might suffer an XP penalty if they pick an unfavored class - if so you could use a prestige class like Champion of Torm to avoid this).
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Westan Willows]

               

MrZork wrote...

Empyre65 wrote...
Dragon Knight 3 (Paladin 29 / Sorcerer 1 / Red Dragon Disciple 10)

Westan said he wants this toon to be "primanily a spellcaster". Maybe reverse the paladin/sorc ratio? ;-)

Westan, there are several builds on the search engine with 20+ sorcerer levels. I would suggest starting with one of those and see if any of them catches your eye.

BTW, am still not sure what exactly you are hoping to get from RDD in this build?

 I am starting to wonder that myself. All that my Sorc is getting so far is a skill dump. '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Westan Willows]

               

rogueknight333 wrote...

The main benefits of RDD (AC and Stat bonuses, especially strength) are most valuable to a melee combatant, which means that as a general rule there is not a lot of point to using RDD levels in a build meant to be primarily a spellcaster. Usually Bard, being relatively better than Sorcs at melee, is a better choice for RDDs. The main reason to use Sorc instead is if you are making a Paladin/RDD, in which case you will normally have to use Sorc rather than Bard due to alignment conflicts.

If you do want to play a spellsword build who is primarily a caster but still makes some use of RDD I suggest something like Paladin 4/Sorcerer 26/RDD 10. Paladin is probably the most effective class you could add to Sorc/RDD, but if you have alignment conflicts or other RP reasons why you do not want to use it, you can substitute Fighter levels (or really just about any warrior class) instead (at least if you are human or half-elf, as other races might suffer an XP penalty if they pick an unfavored class - if so you could use a prestige class like Champion of Torm to avoid this).

 The more that I try the more I have to agree with you. The main reason I don't do Bard is I tend to go LG.  Oh well back to work./
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Westan Willows]

               Empyre65 why not get the Sorc lv in at lv1?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Empyre65]

               Taking Paladin at level 1 lets you take Weapon Focus right away. It also will make the NPCs identify you as a Paladin. You also have 1 higher BAB at level 1 that way.

RDD is nice to have when you play Sands of Fate for at least 3 reasons that I won't spoil for you.  Also nice to have is a weapon that does acid damage and a ranged weapon that does cold damage.