Why haven't anyone done a game like NWN since?

[Legacy_Cablefish]

               I mean it just bugs me. In my oppinion NWN had a few features that make people like us spend money on it 10 years after it came out:
1: A general purpose roleplaying system integrated in their game mechanics.
2: Toolset and modability support.
3: Multiplayer freedom to DM and host the kind of server for the kind of game you want.

Theres lots of games that nails 2/3 of the above. Examples like minecraft gets 2 and 3 right. The elderscrolls series nails 1 and 2 but bethesda decides to make a theme park looking MMO instead of just adding multiplayer support into their next game which really saddens me. 

Why on earth haven't anyone done it since? Especially now with the kickstarter hype making gamers spend tons of money based on mostly nostalgia. If someone created a game with those three core features they'd have a classic staying alive for 10 more years.

Have i missed anything? Why cant any developer see that Neverwinter Nights had a recipe for something great and boil up  a new game on the recipe? Is games like World of Warcraft to blame like it this clever video seems to suggest: 


Anyways. It just bugs me...

Edit: typos
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Cablefish, 17 août 2013 - 01:29 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Gruftlord]

               that is a good channel. thanks for sharing.

i think it is in general harder to monetarize a game such as NWN, compared to the more restricitve online games of today. not only do the examples of how the MMOs worked out well for the companies limit the amout of free roam games that are produced today (even more so those with DM clients), but also the negative examples of past games (in between today and Neverwinter nights) that did try to become even closelly as successfull as WOW, but failed to make even a profit.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Gruftlord, 17 août 2013 - 04:50 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Cablefish]

               Hmm. How would we go about creating a game like NWN?

Just play along. I know the scale of the project but i'm kinda serious about it anyway. Or at least in suggesting it to someone who might pull it off. Or failing that having an intelligent discussion about why it can/can't be done.

Lets take a look at the resources out there:
1: Lots of roleplaying systems that are opensource and could serve the purpose without getting into copyright issues.
2: Lots of nostalgic players approaching the age of 30 who are willing to throw money at stuff as soon as they hear beloved titles of games or game companies they grew up with.

I'm not thinking cutting edge graphics, talented voice acting, huge budgets. Just the roleplaying system. Userfriendly toolset. Custom multiplayer hosting possibilities. And maybe a campaign to give players something from the beginning.

I'm guessing we should start by getting laid off people from Bioware, Black Isle or Interplay involved and create an honest looking youtube video with lots of dreams and ideas,
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Gruftlord]

               Shadowrun Returns, it's an upgrade over the original, but not even close to what Neverwinter night delivers. Fan Funded
Neverwinter, started with a few promising idea. not a spiritual successor, but the licence bearer of old Neverwinter Nights. Corporate decision/company changes killed what could have been. took a different direction.
Sui Generis, Fan funded. looked promising. currently they have scrapped plans to release the toolset. not enough funding to enhance that to a consumer level. not enough funding for multiplayer support.

there have been attempts, but all fall flat and short to provide what those still clinging to Neverwinter Nights are looking for.
it was not for lack of trying.
so i'm not sure if "try again, try harder" is the way to go. things get in the way of those who attempt such a thing. money (or lack theireof to pull it through) and corporate decisions among others. i think a new idea has to come for those looking for a PC enhanced DM campaign experience. a new idea about how computer DMing can be brought to the next level.
i'll throw my money at whoever has a convincing idea for that
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Gruftlord, 18 août 2013 - 10:13 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Asymmetric]

               I agree with Gruftlord on this. There is just not enough money to be made. I think that no major studio will make a game like NWN any time soon. While there are a lot of RPGs with a toolset, they all lack the multiplayer part (and some of them don't allow direct editing of terrain like in NWN 2 or NWN 1). However a couple of Indie studios have some interesting projects, which seem to come quite close to NWN. I personally have high hopes for Divinity Original Sin, but there is not enough information about its toolset yet.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Cablefish]

               Great! Didn't know about Divinity. Hope that the system allows for PVP and real time combat. Otherwise it might limit the roleplaying potential of the playerhosted servers.

I think both your points prove that indie titles can get pretty damn close to the game we want and i'm really hopeful for the future. Lets keep alert and see if something pops up.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Asymmetric]

               They said real time combat will be an option for user made campaigns. The main problem is that as far as I know only 6 players can play a module/campaign at the same time. So unfortunately no persistent worlds will be possible.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Cablefish]

               Aww. So close and yet so far...
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Eternal Phoenix]

               Still close enough. It's offering everything NWN offers at foundation minus the persistent world.

You still can create your own world and quests and then adventure in them with friends. Other than that I don't think you'll find another RPG for a while with a DM system like NWN. Original Sin will have to do for you.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Elton John is dead, 19 août 2013 - 12:25 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               Part of the problem is companies worrying about return on investment - they want to be able to either keep selling new games or at least new expansions.  Making a game like NWN at this point would still be doable but it would require a very different system of payment to work - a much higher up-front cost, some sort of subscription model, or something else entirely.  It's simply not worth making a user friendly toolset for most games.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_KlatchainCoffee]

               Too rushed off my feet right now to contribute properly to this discussion, but my thoughts have wondered back repeatedly to this very topic.

Second Life (of which I am in no ways a fan) comes into mind, somewhat, in terms of continuous infusion of the game with original content and money being made off people building their own stuff in a virtual world. I'm not really sure of their business model, but I think a lot of other games get rich off making many people repeatedly spend 'pennies' on bits and bobs, rather than make them pay extortionate lump sums.

So, the idea here is to think of a business model that would get someone to create and maintain what we want for a reasonable price. Something that would 'milk some pennies' off people for - servers - new content - special features might work, but my feeling is it might require an investment into a marketing campaign equal to the investment into the development to make sure it has enough people using it to be economically viable.

I think it is not completely impossible to create something of top-notch quality/functionality AND economically viable, but - we are likely talking of 'lottery-winning' levels of probability of that actually happening.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_SuperFly_2000]

               In response to the original poster.

I actually don't agree with most you here that the game only had theese features.

For me it is the game design ITSELF and GAMEPLAY that differs so much from the mainstream MMORPG's of today.

If there was a modern MMORPG that was like NWN I would definately play it....EVEN THOUGH it might not have a toolset or perhaps not even a DM (at least not in the sense we are used to).

All I would need is an MMORPG designed for isometric view and with a combat/roleplay system at least near D&D.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_SuperFly_2000]

               ...and yes...it is very strange that no company is looking at this game really...I mean given the popularity still there must be something in the gameplay here right...

Instead they seem to be focusing on making iterations of WoW or perhaps not exactly WoW but on similar systems of WoW.

So they are making like Star Wars WoW, Manga WoW, Scary WoW, Superhero WoW, Startrek WoW and so on...

Yes I know that people who play theese games might see a difference in them but I don't. It is basically the same game just with another backstory/setting.

It is a shame that Bioware became too big at the time and couldn't afford a high risk project like NWN2. It is a shame that Dragon Age is only single player and that it looks so consoly that it hurts my eyes...even if the first one actually looked good. If it only had multiplayer/Persistent Worlds and if only it wasn't so dumbed down.

When Bioware FINALLY return to making a multiplayer game (10 years late to the party)....guess what they make. Yes, you guessed it! An iteration of WoW! Yaaay!

Please understand that I am not really blaming Bioware or anyone, this is just how the industry goes.

To return to the initial point the question remains. How did not any smaller company not pick up the towel? I don't want to start an NWN1 vs NWN2 war here but I still think that NWN2 really did more harm than good (out of a multiplayer perspective). It only seemed to lure some wary NWN1 players into trying thoose multiplayer servers only to then drop interest in the NWN series as whole. Sure, thoose players might have been lost anyway...but there was a drop there for no good reason I think.

So what I am saying is NWN2 didn't turn out good. It was not the NWN2 that I wanted and had hoped for.

But still....10 years have passed.....why no NWN3-ish game? Well I am going in a circle here. We had contenders but they where all iterations of WoW (put Neverwinter here or D&D Online).

I am even starting to hope for a profesional company to make something like a "super PW"....I mean if its good enough I'd pay for that. I know that it might not be possible for numerous reasons but lets play with the idea.

But then again...if they are putting a huge effort in...why not make a new game from scratch?

I mean...niched games have a good chance of success and are sought after. Look at World of Tanks...who thought that would become as big as it is today
               
               

               

                     Modifié par SuperFly_2000, 20 août 2013 - 12:04 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_AndarianTD]

               I think it's primarily because no game company is willing to take a chance on a new business model that would make it profitable. NWN spawned an enormous amount of creative effort from modders and PWs, but the developer and publisher had no way to make money from it. In the end, that's what they're in business for, so it's no surprise to see that it's never been a priority since.

What killed -- and still kills -- any serious prospect for a future NWN-like game is the "you can build with our tools but you can't charge for it" mind-set. What's really needed is the combination of a general-purpose CRPG that's designed to be truly moddable, with a business model along the lines of the mobile app market. A company that invested in providing such an infrastructure in exchange for a percentage, one that modders could build on and profit from, could revolutionize game modding and development.

Needless to say, I'm not holding my breath.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               I was sort of thinking they'd have to do something like a box fee plus a fee to play online - and paying a monthly fee gives you multiplayer access.  And possibly have a site for uploading content that costs a few dollars a month to have access to as well - an official NWVault of sorts for the people only wanting single player mods.

But then I suspect a lot of the NWN community would then whine about monthly fees.