Want to come back to NWN, but no one's on NWC!

[Legacy_Squatting Monk]

               

Urk wrote...

Nobody is accusing anyone of distributing malware! Even at his most miffed ODA never implied that any other member of the community was acting with any malice.

I dunno. The implications of statements like the following are pretty clear:

If your systems at any point require any user at any level to install software capable of MEMORY INJECTION I am not at all interested in working with you - I won't be that fashion trend setter with a brain-pointed revolver as part of my new hat. I will not lead the NWN community in that very dangerous direction.

               
               

               

                     Modifié par Squatting Monk, 21 juin 2013 - 08:15 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Urk]

               Shout out to Skywing. I was not trying to exclude credit!

Squatting, ODA was angry when he wrote that, but examine it closely. He is right in that memory injection CAN be exploited maliciously, but nowhere AT ANY POINT does ODA accuse anyone of actually trying to do so. He is adamantly opposed to opening NWC users to such an exploit, however, and that is his right. Personally I trust the people currently involved with this project, and vouch for them whole heartedly. But, as is ALWAYS the case with open source projects, an unscrupulous developer could use it to plant malware even without the project devs consent and plant the corrupted version on a variety of free download sites (including the vault, pay attention to who the uploader is). While the small user base makes this exceedingly unlikely I am not prepared to promise this couldn't happen in the future any more than ODA is.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Squatting Monk]

               That's fair, of course. But Oda's comment was not. It's over-the-top to say that using NWNCX is putting a gun to your head. Pain and virusman were right to take issue.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_painofdungeoneternal]

               It is also assuming that no checksums ( adler, crc32, md5, sha1 ) will be done ( via Neverlauncher and for the Vault 2.0 ), and that this is more likely with an "injecting" application than it is with ANY OTHER APPLICATION you install on your system.

There is right now some possible issues until my entire system is implemented, but even then it's exaggerating the risks. ( NWNx for example is about 6 months younger than NWN1 and I don't think we've had issues yet like that )

We need to respect the players choices, and they do have a valid choice of using NWNx/NWNCX, and a valid choice of not using it in any way. By that same token we should respect the features the players have chosen, and work on innovating new ways to improve their experience whereever they prefer.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par painofdungeoneternal, 22 juin 2013 - 01:25 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_WhiZard]

               

Squatting Monk wrote...

That's fair, of course. But Oda's comment was not. It's over-the-top to say that using NWNCX is putting a gun to your head. Pain and virusman were right to take issue.

You are also quite forward in assuming the "gun" is virusman or Pain.  From what I am reading the "gun" is EA the trigger is a EULA violation and the bullet is legal recourse.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lord Sullivan]

               

WhiZard wrote...

Squatting Monk wrote...

That's fair, of course. But Oda's comment was not. It's over-the-top to say that using NWNCX is putting a gun to your head. Pain and virusman were right to take issue.

You are also quite forward in assuming the "gun" is virusman or Pain.  From what I am reading the "gun" is EA the trigger is a EULA violation and the bullet is legal recourse.

Wut? lol
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_virusman]

               

Urk wrote...

Squatting, ODA was angry when he wrote that, but examine it closely. He is right in that memory injection CAN be exploited maliciously, but nowhere AT ANY POINT does ODA accuse anyone of actually trying to do so. He is adamantly opposed to opening NWC users to such an exploit, however, and that is his right.

NWNX, NWNCX and other community-made tools do not use any exploits. Memory injection/hooking is not an exploit, it's a technique that's officially supported by OS developers, and it doesn't open any possibilities to anything else running on your system.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Squatting Monk]

               

WhiZard wrote...

You are also quite forward in assuming the "gun" is virusman or Pain.  From what I am reading the "gun" is EA the trigger is a EULA violation and the bullet is legal recourse.

Oh really?

If YOU are comfortable putting a tool on your rig that works by INJECTION you go right ahead and do it. I do not need such a tool nor want it on MY system. IIRC a three or four character command issued in such a device can reformat your system hard drive without confirmation of intent. You may think no hacker will ever figure out how to invoke this software to do bad things, but I will not put the tool on my system to ever be tried by hackers. Safety is my concern. I don't feel the need to point a gun to my head as a 'fashion statement' either, I just don't need it.

Same figure of speech, here being specifically used to refer to malware. No invocation of EULAs here.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Squatting Monk, 22 juin 2013 - 07:25 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_kalbaern]

               To get back to the OP here ...

I just logged into NWC for the first time in more than a few years. After 30 minutes or so of looking around, I have to ask, what the heck good is it for anymore? I did a server search, which seems to only display servers in alphabetical order (131 pages of them) and I randomly choose one server from each of the first 27 pages displayed to see if it still exists. Not one did. Based on that alone, I have to assume that 90% or more of the listings are long dead as well. No? Why even list servers if no one is ensuring they are still active?

As a test, I also had two friends try and navigate the site and they were no less frustrated than I was. Using the "Find Servers" option .. no "live" servers in their first dozen attempts. Trying to use the "Find Players" option just resulted in a blank screen for all three of us.

Broken links, incomplete entries and outdated information ... anyone desire to guess why NWC isn't being used or is likely to be by many?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_ehye_khandee]

               The implementation of PHASE TWO will also see a few fixes to NWC. We have not 'cleaned' the database for servers yet (part of phase two rollout will include many more server features). There are ample features working there, you CAN schedule events and join them, which is the essential and unique feature of that site.

There are channels to make such feedback timely and useful and then there are rant threads like this one.

Be well. Game on.
GM_ODA

http://playnwn.com
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_ehye_khandee]

               

kalbaern wrote...

To get back to the OP here ...

I just logged into NWC for the first time in more than a few years. After 30 minutes or so of looking around, I have to ask, what the heck good is it for anymore? I did a server search, which seems to only display servers in alphabetical order (131 pages of them) and I randomly choose one server from each of the first 27 pages displayed to see if it still exists. Not one did. Based on that alone, I have to assume that 90% or more of the listings are long dead as well. No? Why even list servers if no one is ensuring they are still active?

As a test, I also had two friends try and navigate the site and they were no less frustrated than I was. Using the "Find Servers" option .. no "live" servers in their first dozen attempts. Trying to use the "Find Players" option just resulted in a blank screen for all three of us.

Broken links, incomplete entries and outdated information ... anyone desire to guess why NWC isn't being used or is likely to be by many?

At some point, you have to read the words

THE SITE IS NOT COMPLETE

YOU ARE VIEWING PHASE ONE ONLY of a three phase release. The essential and unique features of the site are online and functional. There are channels to report bugs, and then there are rant threads like this one.

I understand you say you left NWC a year or more before I took over, and only just looked in on it again. *shrugs* In two years time, you get rusty and more, the site has changed. The site is incomplete. Well, I can hope you'll read the words, they have only been repeated in this thread about a dozen times. I find it rather inappropriate that those who abandoned NWC for 'more than a few years' now come here to castigate my team and the work we do for the community. Makes me wonder if there were some other agenda involved.

Be well. Game on.
GM_ODA
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_kalbaern]

               

ehye_khandee wrote...

The implementation of PHASE TWO will also see a few fixes to NWC. We have not 'cleaned' the database for servers yet (part of phase two rollout will include many more server features). There are ample features working there, you CAN schedule events and join them, which is the essential and unique feature of that site.

There are channels to make such feedback timely and useful and then there are rant threads like this one.

Be well. Game on.
GM_ODA

http://playnwn.com

1) My own post was not a "rant". I merely stated what I myself have observed and had two sets of fresh eyes do the same and reported the findings.

2) While yes, you CAN schedlue an event, that is not the lone use or at least never was of NWC originally.

- Searching for Players or DMs on the site does not work. Even if you know their exact logins.

- Searching for Servers/PWs is useless as there is no sorting options and all are displayed in alphabetical order only.

- The Forum no longer works.

- There are too many broken links for someone visiting NWC for the first time to actually "believe" it is still up and active.

I'm not saying that alot hasn't been done or appreciated. I'm saying there's a crap ton left to do before folks will bother making use of it. Since the ONLY thing that NWC seems capable of is scheduling events currently, its value is low. With few visiting the site, most of "us" here are better off sticking to what we have been doing these past few years, making announcements here, on NWN Vault and on our own forums.

Now, so that you can properly classify this post as a rant, rant I shall.

Why are there broken links at all? If one is broken, why can't it simply be removed until such time as it can be restored in working order? Why not disable or remove the search functions for Players/DMs and Servers until they are in working order? Why not disable or remove the Forums there until they can be restored and made functional once again? One thing out of dozens does nothing to promote the service and I'd argue, based on having four of my own players now visit and navigate the mess that is NWC these past few days, that it damages the site as a whole. Each person I asked to visit there was left with the same assumption that the site is dead and unused. So why can't all the broken stuff be removed and let the few features actually working shine? Advertising NWC for general use is like selling me an unfinished home in its current state. Sure, the view looks nice, but the windows are missing and the lights aren't connected yet, so why should I move in? In other words, with so much broken there, what incentive is there to bother using it? Again, remove all that is wrong currently while being worked on and more players might actually "believe" its a site worth visiting and PW Admins and Hosts of Private Campaigns might once again find it a nice resource. In short, its all that doesn't work there that hides the features that do.

Rant over.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Rolo Kipp]

               <wandering through...>

@ the OP: Please do come back to NwN :-) There is just so very much great content, with more still being created, that this old game continues to fill my time most pleasantly.

@ all the guys with big crossbows (and wands) pointed in my general direction: Uh, can we put this thread to bed? Please?

<...the crossfire>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_NWN_baba yaga]

               I vote for throwing barry in the hotspot here, then we rip him apart and got rid of the anger and frustration for a week lets say, fair?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_kalbaern]

               

I understand you say you left NWC a year or more before I took over, and only just looked in on it again. *shrugs* In two years time, you get rusty and more, the site has changed. The site is incomplete. Well, I can hope you'll read the words, they have only been repeated in this thread about a dozen times. I find it rather inappropriate that those who abandoned NWC for 'more than a few years' now come here to castigate my team and the work we do for the community. Makes me wonder if there were some other agenda involved.

I logged in, as in I actually entered my login name and passcode. NWC has regardless been a site I've checked on no less than monthly since around '05 however. After all the posts here, I assumed that by not actually logging in and just glancing as a guest, that I was missing something.

There is no conspiracy or agenda, at least not a hidden one. I'd actually logged into NWC hoping beyond hope that it was indeed worth visiting more often. I've deemed its not. To be fair, I had two friends do the same before I posted here. Since then, two more have checked it out as well. We were all left with the impression that the place is mostly unused and abandonned. Giving an honest opinion isn't me "out to get you" for whatever immagined theory you can muster though. If "something" helps promote NWN in general, then I'm all for it and will back it whole heartedly ... assuming it works.

If I truly had a hidden agenda, I wouldn't have bothered posting my own suggestions as well.

I vote for throwing barry in the hotspot here, then we rip him apart and got rid of the anger and frustration for a week lets say, fair?

Since our beloved "insert obvious sarcasm here* "Barry" boycotts these forums and only even vists the CEP ones a few times a year as cathartic as it might be for many, I think it be a waste of effort assuming what anyone might say was said to promote a response or changes.