Want to come back to NWN, but no one's on NWC!

[Legacy_EGD Eric]

               Hi everyone, I used to play in NWN DM'ed games back in the day, I'd use Neverwinter Connections to find games/campaigns to join. I haven't played NWN in a really long time, but I've recently wanted to go back to it. I checked out NWC, but that place is a ghost town, no one is scheduling games anymore. Not a big surprise, since the game is pretty old, but I figured a game like this would still have people playing it. I'm interested in playing in campaigns again, maybe even DM'ing. I'd like to reccomend this game to my sister, she lives far away, and I'd like to be able to play with her, but I want to dip my toes in first, make sure the online aspect of this even works. So anyway, is there still a good community out there for playing in and DM'ing campaigns?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Elhanan]

               Perhaps something in this link may be of help:


http://www.neverwint....info/index.htm
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_OldTimeRadio]

               @EGD Eric - You might want to browse around for recent-ish threads at NWNCampaigns and PM a DM or two to see what they've currently got going. 
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_BelowTheBelt]

               Arenthyor offers a DM'd campaign every Monday, if you're interested.

Check out www.arenthyor.com for info about the world and the forums for the DM events.

Let me know if you have any questions or interest.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par BelowTheBelt, 28 mai 2013 - 03:04 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Fester Pot]

               Yeah. Sadly, Neverwinter Connections hit rock bottom when it was handed over. The new administration took way too long during the migration phase from the old legacy system to the new, and many of those who used the system, have left the scene.

The old legacy system should have remained running while they created a new platform for the system, rather than writing it all from scratch and leaving nothing for the community to use.

Live and learn.

FP!
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Fester Pot, 30 mai 2013 - 03:54 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_EGD Eric]

               I just PM'ed someone at NWN campaigns, here's hoping..

Say I want to host a multiplayer game, and get a friend to join me. How do I do that? Is there a guide to hosting a game? All advice I've found is really dated.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par EGD Eric, 30 mai 2013 - 04:31 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_OldTimeRadio]

               I'd suggest you just grab a copy of NWN Client Extender and try to join a multiplayer game.  It picks up the ball that got dropped with Gamespy.  You can learn more and download the extender here.  You'll be able to see the games in the different categories like you're used to.  You basically unpack it to your NWN folder and launch NWN with NWNCX_Loader.exe.

EGD Eric wrote...
Say I want to host a multiplayer game, and get a friend to join me. How do I do that?

I haven't done it in a while but I think it's as easy as goin to Multiplayer, New Internet/LAN game, picking a module and away you go.  Your sister can use the Direct Connect option in multiplayer to connect directly to your external IP address.  Ports may need to be opened up on your router/firewall for them to get through: Another reason why it's usually easier to start meetups on the common ground of a PW.  You can either give her the IP or tell her where to find it in the multiplayer games section.

Is there a guide to hosting a game? All advice I've found is really dated.

Most if not all of the instructions you may come across are still going to be accurate.  NeverwinterNights.info is a great website for beginners trying to get their bearings.  Nice rulebook can be found here for beginning players.

Let's say you wanna do something or troubleshoot something and you just can't find the instructions.  You can always grab a copy of the NWN Omnibus and basically search through a number of old Bioware forums I saved off along with all the stickied threads.  For what you're doing?  Almost certainly overkill.  But it's there if you need it or if you plan on doing building with the toolset or scripting. 

It's like almost 500 megs though, but it's got the answer to pretty much any question you could ask. 
               
               

               

                     Modifié par OldTimeRadio, 30 mai 2013 - 08:01 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_ehye_khandee]

               

Fester Pot wrote...

Yeah. Sadly, Neverwinter Connections hit rock bottom when it was handed over. The new administration took way too long during the migration phase from the old legacy system to the new, and many of those who used the system, have left the scene.

The old legacy system should have remained running while they created a new platform for the system, rather than writing it all from scratch and leaving nothing for the community to use.

Live and learn.

FP!

{sark}Gee, thanks for that.{/sarc}

"leaving nothing for the community to use"?!?! EVERYTHING is working there except for the forum. Like the internet is not full of forum options eh?

We did the conversion in um two months time, and that was 'way too long'... oy. The only thing not plugged-in (but coded and waiting) is the forum side due to needing artwork for the spambot blocker.

Keep the old one online? It used proprietary sytems costing $3000 and I didn't see you open your wallet. Besides, it ran on windows server and used ColdFusion, both are security nightmares and I would not run a windows server (unless you paid me very very well).

You can complain all you like but we did the work, did it secure and did it well. Want to help? Donate money for the art cause or [donate] art.

I encourage everyone to go to http://neverwinterconnections.com and see for themselves. The unique features of that site are replicated presently and functioning. All such has been the case since two months after we abruptly inherited the site.

Be well. Game on.
GM_ODA
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ehye_khandee, 31 mai 2013 - 02:52 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_OldTimeRadio]

               

ehye_khandee wrote...
The only thing not plugged-in (but coded and waiting) is the forum side due to needing artwork for the spambot blocker.

Ehye, if the forum is all coded up and just waiting for the artwork, why not just use some public domain images as placeholders so the site can move forward?  You've been asking for artwork for eights months now and while a lot of people have offered to step up and create images for the site to use, the restrictions you've placed on that artwork have grown pretty large.

It seems weird that such a Herculean task as recoding that forum to the standards that you'd like would be done but it would all be waiting on artwork which could be filled in by placeholders.

Having even a little information in the Latest NWC Fixes & Latest NWN News along with a working forum would go a long way to giving visitors to the site the impression that it's active.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_ehye_khandee]

               

OldTimeRadio wrote...

Ehye, if the forum is all coded up and just waiting for the artwork, why not just use some public domain images as placeholders so the site can move forward?  You've been asking for artwork for eights months now and while a lot of people have offered to step up and create images for the site to use, the restrictions you've placed on that artwork have grown pretty large.

It seems weird that such a Herculean task as recoding that forum to the standards that you'd like would be done but it would all be waiting on artwork which could be filled in by placeholders.

Having even a little information in the Latest NWC Fixes & Latest NWN News along with a working forum would go a long way to giving visitors to the site the impression that it's active.

Friend OTR,
First, while I appreciate advice - and in fact have pursued the use of free images at several sites I have found none suited to the task. As an example let me cite a few specific urls offered by doing searches on the site you suggested...

http://www.publicdom...hp?hleda=dwarf#

Here are images of a bonsai, photos of a couple examples of human dwarfism, a couple lawn gnomes and then some images that clearly infringe on DISNEY copyrights, the rest of the site is dedicated to selling me 'professional art'.

http://www.publicdom...j.php?hleda=elf

Offers us some photos of a baby dressed in some sort of Christmas-elf costume and a few of Christmas ornaments.

http://www.publicdom...php?hleda=gnome

Offers me two photos of a modern garden gnome statue.

Clearly none of this is suitable to a D&D nor NWN site. We seek to ask the human viewer, with lore of D&D / NWN to "click on the elf" or "click on the orc" etc., and these images offered are NOT cannon material.

I have stated I am what you call penurious. I have not a single penny to spare on buying art for this volunteer project. I have provided the code and the hosting with the help of my excellent team. We re-created the unique functions of the original NWC site and then turned to the NWN community A YEAR AGO asking for help with the needed art.

You state that "a lot of people have offered to step up and create images for the site
to use, the restrictions you've placed on that artwork have grown pretty large."

This thread

http://social.biowar.../index/12655490

saw ONE volunteer after five months - a kindness to volunteer but I had to decline as the offer was to be based off the game art, which the EULA limits to use - neverwinterconnections.com is not a nwn server and hence could not 'fly under the wire' of that EULA provision. The thread also saw one suggestion that I use stock art or make a temporary version for later revision.

You will please note that the above listed thread like the one that follows both begin with a clear statement of the 'news' regarding the site.

http://social.biowar.../index/12655527

This thread above garnered NO volunteers nor suggestions for the art.

http://social.biowar.../index/10808444

Garnered ONE suggested source for public domain art after four pages (and a whole year) of dialog. After dilligently searching those sites we found a _few_ usable images of solid pedigree (legaly usable and suited to the task)... but not enough to complete the work, especially the robo-foil system.

Lastly in the thread

http://social.biowar.../index/16054289

deviantart.com was suggested and I searched it, contacted a number of artists there, am continuing to sort through the artist listings there but am finding most are disinterested in doing any custom work for free - I continue to search through the free images there seeking ones that will fit the cannon desired.

To be clear it is not my desire to setup this system twice, so I have no interest in creating a temporary system only to have to do it again later (there is a lot of work involved).

Altogether, I find less than "a lot of people have offered to step up and create images for the site to use". I am, at present working with one such artist who contacted me privately. Still, it has been a year and the NWN community has not so much stepped up to create images as come along with suggestions on where I could search for art (appreciated, but I am not unaquainted with clip art; I've been in web design since 1994). Believe me, if I had found suitable images for the purpose I would use them - most essiential here is the robo-foil system that will depend on D&D / NWN cannon characters being depicted for the user to click on.

Initially, my art request was brief and a little vague - since then we have released more detailed descriptives of the desired pieces - please don't misconstrue this as "restrictions you've placed on that artwork" - artists ASKED so I filled in some blanks to dispel any confusion. No artist is asked to do it all, the various pieces were described/requested in the event an artist had art in their portfolio that might match (to speed production you see).



While these suggested sources are appreciated, more helpful would be money for art purchases, or help in finding/evaluating available pieces from this jungle of sites (mostly seeking to sell me art I cannot afford).

Be well. Game on.
GM_ODA
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_EGD Eric]

               I'm not sure why NWC is deserted, but I don't think it has anything to do with the lack of forums.

But about this forums issue...

The problem is that there's no forums? And there's no forums because there's no art?
I didn't realize forums were so dependent on art (not being sarcastic, just didn't realize). Was there art in the old forums? (I don't remember), why not re-use that art? IP issues? I guess the old owners weren't as worried about that.

If the art is really an issue, this sounds like a good kickstarter project. Some members of the NWN community could pledge money to hire an artist to do it all, and you could get all the art you need. If not enough people pledge, then they get their money back.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_painofdungeoneternal]

               Just my 5 cents

The legal law you are so focused on, is a bit over the top, the way it's described is such that I cannot see many artists volunteering, I can't even see them bothering to read what is requested being usually visual sorts. It's just presented in the wrong way, if you want people helping it has to seem fun ( kind of like painting a fence if you read twain ).

Most agreements are relatively simple, and the legal language is not needed to be legally safe, those laws are made to protect artists who do not want to think in legal terms, nor even need to talk to a lawyer or do anything beyond signing their name to have protection. Further for "free" work, most artists would only give you usage rights on your site, reserving further rights for themselves. For the most part the simple agreement of an artist providing artwork is all that is needed for what is in essence a simple fan site dedicated to neverwinter nights.

Also if you cannot use the art for NWC, then the vault and wikia has an issue using that same art as well ( and note that wikia has a lot of material, all of which is used to support a commercial company which could be real sums of money, not treble zero damages involved in your case. Of course this ignores the real loss of sales if EA, Hasbro were to actually try to sue a fan site which is important to the community. ).

( Note that i have been a graphic designer since 1995, done illustration work for magazines, have done logos including trademark searches and registration, custom photography, and have built an entire artist community providing stock photography for my companies customers. )
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_ehye_khandee]

               

EGD Eric wrote...

I'm not sure why NWC is deserted, but I don't think it has anything to do with the lack of forums.

But about this forums issue...

The problem is that there's no forums? And there's no forums because there's no art?
I didn't realize forums were so dependent on art (not being sarcastic, just didn't realize). Was there art in the old forums? (I don't remember), why not re-use that art? IP issues? I guess the old owners weren't as worried about that.

If the art is really an issue, this sounds like a good kickstarter project. Some members of the NWN community could pledge money to hire an artist to do it all, and you could get all the art you need. If not enough people pledge, then they get their money back.

I will explain. SPAMBOTS are everywhere, they even manage to infiltrate THIS forum from time to time and post hundreds of annoying and off topic messages/advertisements. Some I've seen here are sports related, but some I've seen in my travels are pornographic and worse. I don't want the audience to be upset as they may well be when a younger NWNer logs in to the neverwinterconnections.com an finds some mass of spammy pornographic or illegal item advertisments.

I have worked in networking since the mid 1980's. I've been running forums for that long. The systems have evolved over the years but so too have the spambots. They grow increasingly capable of creating new accounts on forums - once they do so they post it full of spam. This means an admin has to take time every day, maybe several times a day to moderate the forum. I don't know that we have time to be the abused by all the spambots out there - I am attempting to ensure they never get through the door - never make an account.

The proposed protective sytem uses images of a gaming nature so that human viewers visiting the site will be able to select the right region in the image with ease (hence based of NWN / DND standards) while spambots will fail to 'click on the dwarf' for example.

The art for the protective system is essential, I will not open the forum without it.

I am poor. As such I am the sort who avoids legal entanglements as I cannot afford a lawyer. For these reasons I must maintain a totally above-board presence online and in life. We are trying to continue to provide neverwinterconnections.com for the benefit of the NWN community; getting it and myself entangled in a law suit is NOT going to accompllish the goal.

I THANK YOU  for the kickstarter suggestion - I will review the option and see what I need to do to get such a thing started. Off the top of my head I think I'll need to have a dollar figure, so for that I'd need to get some quotes from som professional artists. We could work with artists from the community (if any want to make me a quote for the specified art work please do). On this basis, I'm half tempted to call my old friend Larry Elmore this morning to see if he has some pieces we could use and if so what fee he might charge me. I think I shall.

As for the old art of the site, neither it nor the code had documentation - yes, the former admins were much more 'loose' about such things than I am, but we are trying to ensure that someday when we too pass the torch to the next admin, that there will me no nightmares. Much of the old site evolved 'organically' was built as they went in a very informal way, there were not even comments in the code. Sorting it all out in the mere two months it took us to do it was no mean feat. I am an old school programmer and I do things in a very structured way. The whole thing will be handled professionally, with full code documentation and full art pedigrees preserved. The next admin will NOT have to struggle to make it all work; we aim to ensure the future transfers go smoothly. And yes, I believe NWN will by far out-live me.

THANK you foryour input, it has been helpful.

Be well. Game on.
GM_ODA
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_ehye_khandee]

               

painofdungeoneternal wrote...

Just my 5 cents

The legal law you are so focused on, is a bit over the top, the way it's described is such that I cannot see many artists volunteering, I can't even see them bothering to read what is requested being usually visual sorts. It's just presented in the wrong way, if you want people helping it has to seem fun ( kind of like painting a fence if you read twain ).

Most agreements are relatively simple, and the legal language is not needed to be legally safe, those laws are made to protect artists who do not want to think in legal terms, nor even need to talk to a lawyer or do anything beyond signing their name to have protection. Further for "free" work, most artists would only give you usage rights on your site, reserving further rights for themselves. For the most part the simple agreement of an artist providing artwork is all that is needed for what is in essence a simple fan site dedicated to neverwinter nights.

Also if you cannot use the art for NWC, then the vault and wikia has an issue using that same art as well ( and note that wikia has a lot of material, all of which is used to support a commercial company which could be real sums of money, not treble zero damages involved in your case. Of course this ignores the real loss of sales if EA, Hasbro were to actually try to sue a fan site which is important to the community. ).

( Note that i have been a graphic designer since 1995, done illustration work for magazines, have done logos including trademark searches and registration, custom photography, and have built an entire artist community providing stock photography for my companies customers. )

Friend painofdungeoneternal,

Note, I have worked with professional artist since the mid 1980s, including such names as Larry Elmore, Keith Parkinson, Clyde Caldwell, and many many others. I know MANY artists who do read, and do ask for details on art they are to submit EXPRESSLY SO THEY CAN SUBMIT USEFUL MATERIAL as most artists I know don't like to waste their contracted time. I don't know how you personally communicate with your clients and they with you, but in my decades of experience I find all the conracts and deals I have been party to have been richly detailed by text agreements and descriptive text requests. I have been personally involved in the drafting and negotiation of contracts with companies including Games Designers' Workshop, TSR, Wizards of the Coast, FASA, Chaosium, and countless others. I am not, by any means, new to this subject and process.

Specifying such things as topic and size are essential to all the deals I've experienced.

You offer "The legal law you are so focused on, is a bit over the top". You fly how you please, I stick to legality. I am not in the market to make a monster of this site. Our goal is to have properly and fully documented code and art ready to pass to the next admin when the time comes. Doing any of this differently would not accomplish that goal. The site we inherited had no code comments, no documentation and no art pedigrees. That is a total nightmare to deal with, one the next admin will not face.

You offer "Most agreements are relatively simple, and the legal language is not needed to be legally safe" - um, ok you go right ahead an sign any sort of contract you please, I suspect none would hold any value in court, but that's your look-out. I adhere to the law, the language of the law (with which I've been deeply involved since the 1980's) - and in fact that short legal piece regarding the art (only a couple paragraphs) is solid and brief.

Other NWN related sites assess and evaluate their own risks, I do so with mine, each case is unique as I am sure you understand. Obviously, our ideas of proper levels of protection do not match, but that is of no consequence to me. I will 'cover my backside' as much as I feel proper.

As a 'graphic designer' are you volunteering to help create graphics for neverwinterconnections.com , or did you post here just to tell me you disagree with my post and/or brief legal submission text?

Be well. Game on.
GM_ODA
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_ehye_khandee]

               Friends,
I love NWN. I'm a big booster of NWN have been since the start. Well, I did not _want_ to call in 'old contacts and old favors' but, in the face of this need and a lack of artists willing to do the images needed for the planned new member security system (spambot stopper) - I bit the bullet.

I just now got off the phone with my old friend Larry Elmore. Though it has been many long years, he remembered me (thank you Larry). We spoke briefly and came to an arrangement for the art pieces needed for this particular system. Larry is busy working on a 300+ page book with a mid july publishing date, so it will be a couple weeks before he is able to get back to me with specific pieces - but he promised to prepare a selection of his art for this use, and to give us his best pricing. Bless you brother Larry!

When I have the pieces picked out for the security system, I'll post a link to a kickstarter program and we will take donations from the public to fund this need.

Meanwhile, we will still need the rest of the requested pieces. If you or someone you know can do EVEN ONE of the requested pieces, please do step up; we need your help.

Be well. Game on.
GM_ODA