Rogue/Fighter with emphasis on Sneak Attack?

[Legacy_Linthalda]

               So I'm going to be running through the OC (and the other campaigns afterwards) with a friend who is playing a straight Druid, so I figured it would be a decent time to get in a Rogue game since I won't be the main focus of the enemies with all the other targets. I was thinking of trying out a Rogue multiclassed for Dual-Wielding Kukris, who could weave in and out doing some sneak attack damage, and drop out with HiPS if necessary, or to sneak up on the enemy using it and a combination of high Hide and Move Silently skills. I'm going to be trying out something similar to this no matter if it's optimized or not (don't really care too much about optimization at the end of the day), but I would like some feedback from any regular Rogue players what I might want to take, what classes I might not want to take, etc. to make the experience good for me and perhaps help me synergize well with my Druid friend.

I'm thinking full DEX halfling (obviously with the Kukris), and pre-epic levels looking at something like: Rogue 7, Fighter 4, Ranger 8, SD 1. A full build looking something more like: 1 Shadowdancer, 4 Fighter, 10 Ranger, 25 Rogue.

The obvious problem is the experience penalty I'll incur from the extra base class. We're only level 2, still in the prelude, and I've taken a level of Rogue and a level of Ranger, but starting my character over isn't an issue if you think Fighter levels would be better suited in place of the Ranger since I'm thinking about dipping 1 into SD for HiPS. My reasoning behind the Ranger levels was mostly to cover up with Favored Enemy a little bit for my weaknesses against non-critables since I get three by Ranger 10 (was thinking Undead, Constructs, Elementals in that order).

The other thing I'm considering is that I'll either be taking the sneak damage and stealthiness away from the class until near epic levels, or the improved two weapon fighting and 2 FEs (not to mention the extra BaB from Ranger).

Whatcha think?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               Can only take 3 classes.

10 Ranger really isn't worth it - the Favored Enemy bonuses will be pretty weak and you could get the same amount of feats in 6 Fighter levels.

Kukri aren't very important either since your damage per hit will be low.  If you have the feat to spare, great, but it isn't critical by any means.

I'd probably suggest something like

Fighter 20/Rogue 19/SD 1

Probably something like 12 Fighter/8 Rogue pre-epic, can reverse that to 8 Fighter/12 Rogue if you really need the skill points.

Epic levels you'd want

Great Dex 7 (6 if you start with an even dex score)
Epic Weapon Focus
Epic Weapon Specialization
Epic Prowess
Armor Skin
Epic Dodge

And then either Improved Sneak Attack or Epic Skill Foci.

Note that you'll need to spend rogue feats on Improved Evasion and Defensive Roll as well.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Empyre65]

               You're only allowed 3 classes in NWN, not 4, which NWN2 allows.

Both the OC and SoU start at level 1, and HotU is designed for the character who finished SoU. The OC will take you from level 1 to about level 17 or 18, SoU from 1 - about 13, and HotU from 13 to 27 or 28. If you follow HotU with the Sands of Fate series, it will take you the rest of the way to level 40.

I will make a stealthy dual-kukri Rogue build suitable for either campaign and post it here later.

Edit: Ninja'd!
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Empyre65, 24 mai 2013 - 12:56 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Empyre65]

               Here you go. Copy-and-paste the build into the notes tab of your in-game journal for easy reference.

Taking the Shadowdancer level pre-epic lowers your final AB by 1, but otherwise, you wouldn't get HiPS in the OC at all.

If you're planning on playing the Sands of Fate series after HotU, put acid dmage on your main kukri for those creatures that can only be killed by acid damage, and cold damage on the other kukri to make them look cool as a set, and bring a bow with infinite cold arrows with you to safely fight green slime.

An optional tweak, put points in Spot instead of Open Lock, and have your friend bash locks.

Stealthy Kukri Rogue (Rogue 21 / Fighter 18 / Shadowdancer 1)
Halfling, Any Alignment
Playable 1 - 40, PvM

Abilities:
STR: 10
DEX: 18 (34)
CON: 14
WIS: 8
INT: 16
CHA: 8

Leveling Guide:
Halfling: (Fearless, Good Aim, Lucky, Skill Affinity: Listen, Skill Affinity: Move Silently, Small Stature)
01: Rogue(1): Dodge
02: Rogue(2): {Evasion}
03: Fighter(1): Weapon Finesse, Weapon Proficiency Exotic
04: Fighter(2): DEX+1, Weapon Focus: Kukri, (DEX=19)
05: Rogue(3): {Uncanny Dodge I}
06: Fighter(3): Mobility
07: Rogue(4)
08: Shadowdancer(1): DEX+1, {Hide in Plain Sight}, (DEX=20)
09: Fighter(4): Blind Fight, Weapon Specialization: Kukri
10: Fighter(5)
11: Fighter(6): Two-Weapon Fighting
12: Rogue(5): DEX+1, Ambidexterity, (DEX=21)
13: Fighter(7)
14: Fighter(: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
15: Rogue(6): Skill Focus: Hide
16: Fighter(9): DEX+1, (DEX=22)
17: Rogue(7)
18: Fighter(10): Skill Focus: Move Silently, Improved Critical: Kukri
19: Rogue(
20: Fighter(11): DEX+1, (DEX=23)
21: Fighter(12): Great Dexterity I, Epic Weapon Focus: Kukri, (DEX=24)
22: Rogue(9)
23: Fighter(13)
24: Fighter(14): DEX+1, Great Dexterity II, Epic Weapon Specialization: Kukri, (DEX=26)
25: Rogue(10): Improved Evasion
26: Rogue(11)
27: Rogue(12): Great Dexterity III, (DEX=27)
28: Rogue(13): DEX+1, Defensive Roll, (DEX=28)
29: Rogue(14)
30: Rogue(15): Improved Sneak Attack I
31: Rogue(16): Epic Dodge
32: Rogue(17): DEX+1, (DEX=29)
33: Fighter(15): Great Dexterity IV, (DEX=30)
34: Fighter(16): Epic Prowess
35: Rogue(18)
36: Rogue(19): DEX+1, Great Dexterity V, Crippling Strike, (DEX=32)
37: Rogue(20)
38: Fighter(17)
39: Fighter(18): Great Dexterity VI, Armor Skin, (DEX=33)
40: Rogue(21): DEX+1, (DEX=34)

Stats:
Hitpoints: 394
Skillpoints: 363
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 22/15/34
Saving Throw bonuses: Spells: +4, Traps: +5, Fear: +2
BAB: 27
AB (max, naked): 44 (melee), 42 (ranged)
AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 33/35
Sneak Attack: 12d6
Alignment Changes: 0

Skills:
Disable Trap 43(48), Hide 43(58), Lore 16(19), Move Silently 43(60), Open Lock 43(55), Search 39(42), Set Trap 3
(45), Spellcraft 17(20), Tumble 40(52), UMD 31(30)

01: Disable Trap(4), Hide(4), Lore(3), Move Silently(4), Open Lock(4), Search(4), Set Trap(4), Tumble(4), UMD(4),
Save(9)
02: Disable Trap(1), Hide(1), Move Silently(1), Open Lock(1), Search(1), Set Trap(1), Tumble(1), UMD(1), Save(12)
03: Save(17)
04: Save(22)
05: Disable Trap(3), Hide(3), Move Silently(3), Open Lock(3), Search(3), Set Trap(3), Tumble(3), UMD(3), Save(9)
06: Save(14)
07: Disable Trap(2), Hide(2), Move Silently(2), Open Lock(2), Search(2), Set Trap(2), Tumble(2), UMD(2), Save(9)
08: Hide(1), Move Silently(1), Search(1), Tumble(1), Save(14)
09: Save(19)
10: Save(24)
11: Save(29)
12: Disable Trap(5), Hide(4), Move Silently(4), Open Lock(5), Search(4), Set Trap(5), Tumble(4), UMD(5), Save(4)
13: Save(9)
14: Save(14)
15: Disable Trap(3), Hide(3), Move Silently(3), Open Lock(3), Search(3), Set Trap(3), Tumble(3), UMD(3), Save(1)
16: Save(6)
17: Disable Trap(2), Hide(2), Move Silently(2), Open Lock(2), Search(2), Set Trap(2), Tumble(2), UMD(2), Save(1)
18: Save(6)
19: Disable Trap(2), Hide(2), Move Silently(2), Open Lock(2), Search(2), Set Trap(2), Tumble(2), UMD(2), Save(1)
20: Save(6)
21: Save(11)
22: Disable Trap(3), Hide(3), Move Silently(3), Open Lock(3), Search(3), Set Trap(3), Tumble(3), UMD(1)
23: Save(5)
24: Save(10)
25: Disable Trap(3), Hide(3), Move Silently(3), Open Lock(3), Search(3), Set Trap(3), UMD(3)
26: Disable Trap(1), Hide(1), Move Silently(1), Open Lock(1), Search(1), Set Trap(1), Tumble(4), UMD(1)
27: Disable Trap(1), Hide(1), Move Silently(1), Open Lock(1), Search(1), Set Trap(1), Spellcraft(2), Tumble(1)
28: Disable Trap(1), Hide(1), Move Silently(1), Open Lock(1), Search(1), Set Trap(1), Tumble(1), UMD(4)
29: Disable Trap(1), Hide(1), Move Silently(1), Open Lock(1), Search(1), Spellcraft(3)
30: Disable Trap(1), Hide(1), Move Silently(1), Open Lock(1), Search(1), Spellcraft(3)
31: Disable Trap(1), Hide(1), Move Silently(1), Open Lock(1), Search(1), Spellcraft(3)
32: Disable Trap(1), Hide(1), Move Silently(1), Open Lock(1), Search(1), Spellcraft(1), Tumble(4)
33: Spellcraft(2), Save(1)
34: Spellcraft(1), Save(4)
35: Disable Trap(3), Hide(3), Move Silently(3), Open Lock(3), Search(3)
36: Disable Trap(1), Hide(1), Lore(2), Move Silently(1), Open Lock(1), Search(1), Spellcraft(2)
37: Disable Trap(1), Hide(1), Lore(2), Move Silently(1), Open Lock(1), Tumble(5)
38: Lore(5)
39: Lore(4), Save(1)
40: Disable Trap(3), Hide(3), Move Silently(3), Open Lock(3)
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Empyre65, 24 mai 2013 - 04:58 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               Some tweaks to that build:

Take Toughness and Knockdown instead of Skill Focus Hide and Move Silently - if you don't want Knockdown, take Skill Focus Disable Trap - your Int is nowhere near your Dex and you'll never have a problem using Stealth anyway.

Take Epic Dodge at level 30 and Imp Sneak I at level 31.

Consider taking Imp Sneak II instead of Crippling Strike if the enemies you're fighting at level 36+ are immune to level/ability drain.  You can also take Crippling at level 31 and swap it with Imp Sneak I.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Linthalda]

               Really awesome ideas. Thanks very much! Gonna reroll my Rogue and try this out, as it looks pretty much exactly like what I wanted to do, but modified to actually work. '> Appreciate it!
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Empyre65]

               In the build as-is, you will be able to not only disable standard epic traps, but also recover them for your own use, but not until level 40, unless you boost your Disable Trap with gear to reach 48 earlier. Toughness and Knockdown do sound like good ideas.

I didn't know that Crippling Strike was subject to any save or immunity. The NWNWiki seems to say otherwise.

Near the end of Sands of Fate, you wioll be facing a lot of undead, immune to critical hits and sneak attacks, but that's where dual-weilding +10 weapons with elemental damage comes in handy.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               

Empyre65 wrote...

I didn't know that Crippling Strike was subject to any save or immunity. The NWNWiki seems to say otherwise.

It can't drain a person's strength if the person is immune to having their strength drained  - that's how the NWN engine works by default.  Which tends to make it amazing level 10ish when you could get it as a pure rogue, but it tends to be worthless later on - the enemies vulnerable to ability drain are weak anyway and you can't drain the monsters you'd really WANT to drain.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy__Guile]

               It really depends upon the module to be honest....

A 23 Rogue / 7 Wiz / 10 AA is a great Rogue Build Too, I call it "The Arcane Assassin" build...
You can fluctuate levels to suit your taste, e.g. more AA for more AB...

21 Rogue / 1 Wiz / 17 AA is also a very good build called "The Sniper"...

Ideally with these two builds you get to use ranged attacks and stay out of the heat of the battle and focus on 1 enemy at a time, rarely does 2 come after you if you are in a party...  Because rogue sneak attacks are so deadly when coupled with AA (great AB & extra dmg), either build will show you just how nasty a rogue can be! '>

As per say, fighter goes, I do not think that's the best choice....

I believe you need more AB as a rogue, taking 10-15 fighter may not be enough...

But it really depends upon the module, some modules even a level 40 monk can hit mobs consistently, on other modules, 40 level monks can't hit NOTHING....  So if I was to build you a fighter rogue, with more emphasis on damage, you would obviously want some way to boost your AB or your "Sneak Attack" reliability...

Because True Seeing is so common on servers, I'd say relying on sneaks is a bad idea all together...

In fact, after playing multiple server modules thoroughly, I'd say it's best not to rely on crits, sneaks, or strength dmg, becuase many servers give monsters high phsycial dmg immunity &/or resistance or reduction...

However, since that's what you requested, I'd be inclined to got with the above posting 21 rogue / 18 fighter / 1 SD is how I would build it as well, or I'd make it 21 rogue / 13 fighter / 7 weapon master, with most of my rogue levels after level 20...
               
               

               

                     Modifié par _Guile, 30 mai 2013 - 08:51 .