I suppose I might as well hurl my penny's worth into the steaming broth...
(Eurgh - what a repulsive metaphor).
So, with regards "Vault 2 - Revenge of the Vault".
IMPORTANT:- A whopping, dirty great Archive of Community Content (hopefully continuing to grow).
UNIMPORTANT:- Pretty much everything else.
OK, that's a gross oversimplification, so sue me... I'm now going to quite deliberately risk flaring some tempers, but better than than flared nostrils which sound ridiculous or flared trousers which are HIDEOUSLY UGLY!
Exterminate voting entirely.
ANY voting system, be it a scale of integers or a series of "amazing, very good, good, bad, abysmal, seething crap, etc" is going to reflect personal opinions, friendships and such far more than any true measure of CC quality. Add to that the fact that something one person feels to be worthless garbage may be seriously impressive to another individual with different aesthetic tastes, Module needs, etc.
So really, what's the point? REALLY. No, honestly, think about it.
What IS the point of a votes system of any description?
Are we to believe that there have been any CC Creators making new Tilesets, Creatures, Scripts, etc and submitting them to the Vault over the years for no reason other than a desperate desire to garner votes that are wholly meaningless outside one little website and enter a Hall of Fame that does not pay you a million dollars when you get there? I think it unlikely.
Yes, we (CC Creators) always liked it when people voted on our stuff, naturally. But I myself, and I've heard many, many others say the same, was primarily interested in comments, eg:- creative feedback from people saying "yes, great monster, but it should be a different colour" or whatever. That's the way forward for Community content for those authors who want to expand upon their work, improve it, and so forth. Voting is irrelevant to that.
If there had never been a system of votes on the Vault, then nobody would ever have been concerned about getting them (or not getting them). I know when I tentatively put my first Undead Animal on the Vault all those years ago (in the late Jurassic, I think), I did it for one reason only. I had downloaded other CC by assorted talented authors and wanted to just give something back, however abjectly rubbish. It was the positive comments and obvious enthusiasm for my dribbling nonsense items that made me strive to improve and expand on the filthy piles of Undead Animals. Votes were nice and all, but made no difference to my submitting stuff.
Hell, though some of my stuff had high hundreds of downloads, one or two near a thousand even in this depleted community, I never got more than thirteen, fourteen votes on anything, though they were always high votes, and I saw a number of subs that had less votes and less downloads get put on the front page as "ooh, look, quick, only needs another twenty votes for HoF". Nobody ever bothered urging people to push mine that had higher scores into HoF. Did I whinge to IGN? I did not, because it wasn't important. (I also never believed any of the stuff I had put up was worthy of HoF anyway on the grounds of comparing it to some of the astounding completely original works by people far more 3dsmax savvy than me.
I create CC for only one reason. I need it for my Modules. I submitted some things to the Vault because I felt they might be of use to someone other than myself and some of it evidently was and is. It was fun to be involved in the whole process. That's it. Votes never swayed me one way or the other. If they'd taken away the whole voting system, I wouldn't have cared and I know I'm not the only one. There were lots of comments on the Vault, e-mails and PMs here that assured me there were those who enjoyed my rubbish content and found it of use.
So, in practical terms, if we are to assume that people do not create CC solely to gain votes, having NO voting system will not instantly cause the creation of CC to halt. Is anyone out there prepared to stand up and say "If nobody gives me VOTES then F*** you, I'm out of here"? COMMENTS are what matter because they express some modicum of structure. A voting system, however complex, however simple, can basically do nothing more than give a thumbs up or a thumbs down... Comments upon a project, Module, model, submission, planned submission, give the author the chance to learn if elements of the project don't work, get help finding bugs, learn what aspects people really enjoy, etc, etc. It's that interaction within the Community, the sharing of knowledge, the help with aspects we can't do ourselves, that's important.
I downloaded a number of things from the Vault with really crap scores - you know, like, it had one vote and had been languishing under musty cobwebs for years with ten downloads - which I thought were pretty good and, even if I needed to retexture it and hit it with the odd brick, it was something of use to me in my Module making. On the other hand, I also downloaded things with monstrous and outrageous piles of votes, HoF status and everyone gushing over it in the comments which I personally thought to be not really terribly impressive at all, and I mean "not impressive at all" rather than "it's great, it's just not any use to me personally".
The best structure I can see for an NWVault kind've resource of any description, would be a solid framework where content can easily be found by category (Tileset, Creature, Module, etc), or by author and whatever other criteria may be useful, and that each sub has a description from the author and screenshots so that you have a reasonable idea of what it is. Appended to these individual subs would be the files to download plus a place to put comments and reactions.
Any potential downloader can thus browse through the category, pluck out whatever sounds to their liking/needs and, if they wish to be picky in their downloads, they can read comments for a sub. If everyone is saying "this is riddled with bugs, it doesn't work, it's useless, it smells funny" then they know what to expect. If everyone raves about how perfect something is, they'll have a good idea of its likely quality. OK, it's still a matter of individual perceptions and praising their friends' work whilst ignoring others, but it would be far more constructive and informative than any voting system - somewhat less contentious too, apparently.
Comments are seen as people's opinions and thus taken at face value, agreed with or vehemently refuted at will. That's all.
BUT, when there's a number of votes, a percentage, a quantified RATING for something, many people subconsciously start to see it as some kind of officially sanctioned, Inviolate Truth.
It isn't; it's just the same people's opinions in a different form. It's inherently meaningless. Yes, if something has a thousand votes, chances are it is PROBABLY better than something with one vote, but that's as far as it goes.
Do you really all wish to be controlled by arbitrary values assigned through essentially irrational and inevitably biased factors or would you rather just have a Big Pile of Stuff to sort through for what you need (full of all sorts of treasures that might inspire you to do something you hadn't initially thought of)?
I've heard a lot of people complain that there are those who only browse through subs with very high votes, or even ONLY HoF stuff. Again, no votes, no problem. All content gets more or less equal exposure. Is that a bad thing? Or do we really want to focus exclusively upon Creators who are
demonstrably bloody good and thus have potential NEW Creators starting with moderate content feel excluded, ignored and thus pack it in when they might otherwise have gone on to create some amazing stuff further down the line?
Anyway, the way I see it, the CONTENT is important, not people's opinions of it. Comments can be a helpful guide, but I have always downloaded something that sounded of use. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. If it is, I TRY to remember to go back and comment (and vote because it's polite to use the facility when it's there). Not having my own internet access makes it less easy than it might as I sometimes have to remember for weeks between being online and, yes, I forgot from time to time. But NEVER did I look at a sub and think "Oh, that sounds useful - oh no, it's got crap votes and two people said they didn't like it - right, I'll ignore it then". I make my own mind up about things.
Voting systems can either be ignored (at which point, don't bother with them at all) or they can lead you by the nose like a sheep (at which point, best get rid of them).
Again, I'm oversimplifying eveything, but if I didn't this post would get into the Guiness Book of Records under "Longest and Most Pointless Forum Dribble Ever" or something.
But the basic points are valid (again, a personal opinion, but all things within our frame of reference are). I'm quite surprised to find anyone's really this (apparently) bothered about the whole general concept of votes and voting systems. Is it so very important? Can't we appreciate CC without applying all manner of hollow scales of merit and awards and votes and ratings and tiers and weights and values and Mouldy Mongoose Pies to it?
Are we in this for the fun of telling stories, making new worlds and new creatures, creating interesting art... or are we a cabal of gnarled little fruitcakes utterly fixated upon other people's artificial scales of merit with regards our imaginations and or talents.
More FUN;
Less rather pointless obsession with irrelevant details of fundamentally futile ephemera relating to secondary and even tertiary components of the system by which the FUN is packaged and delivered!
(PLUSH HYENA of DOOM wishes to apologize in the humblest terms possible for what is, essentially, a wholly sensible post about a (more or less) serious topic. It won't happen again, I promise... Normal foaming rabidity will be resumed forthwith.
Modifié par PLUSH HYENA of DOOM, 22 avril 2013 - 07:58 .
