<on the eve of an age...>
There are a lot of things The Vault has done well and a couple it has done great.
By now, I think I've shown my affection for the old gal and so hope this thread will not be construed as criticism or the dreaded "vault-abuse" so many wizards are known for.
I want to talk about voting and karma and how we sort things on Vault v2.0 (V2).
The old way - a ten point comment vote by registered users - failed for several reasons. The user registration was a joke (your email is bite@me.com? Srsly?). The voting was unmoderated. The voting was unlimited. the voting was unfocused.
But that vote, and a download count, and a time-since-first-upload is what determined ranking, Hall of Fame status and some other stuff. Basically, it determined how much exposure a project got, in what lists, with what highlighting.
There was some discussion about this before on the
NwN2 forums (persevere, there's a lot of other subjects in there, also), and recently I had a pretty good PM with MagicalMaster :
[ edited ]
MagicalMaster
Seems to be what looks like a spam comment on my module's page
But it's definitely not the usual spam. I tried adding the last part of his link there manually to the end of the Bioware boards and it doesn't lead to anything. I'm hesitant to actually click the link since it might somehow to redirecting elsewhere (though offhand I don't see any obvious signs of it).
Something still seems fishy for someone to vote on my module 18 minutes after registering and claim he has a module up or something as well.
Rolo Kipp
That fellow's a regular troll. His latest email for registration, for example, is asfasfaf@duudu.com.
He thinks up a new name and registers and posts something infantile. I blacklist the new name.
On the new vault, I'll just blacklist the IP, but then you need a valid email to register anyway :-P
Anyway, tell me when he returns :-/ I'll hammer him again.
MagicalMaster
But...but...his vote of 10! Surely getting my module a higher score is more important than the integrity of the vault?
Rolo Kipp
Tell ya what I'm gonna do, ya get twenty four o' them votes -thet's jest one shy a the whole kit an' kaboodle -an' I'll spot ya the last vote fee free!How's them apples? ;-)
MagicalMaster
You, sir, are a [ unprintable compliment edited out by shy wizard ].
Rolo Kipp
Well, a [ edited ] at least :-)
Seriously, though, I'm hoping to work out a more effective and rewarding voting system on Vault 2.0.
MagicalMaster
Yeah, it is kind of annoying having over 200 downloads and two whole votes/comments. One of which was from someone else in the ABC, meaning only one person who found it on the vault has voted.
I get that it is technically only about half of a module, but it is still 2-3 hours of play and you'd think people would have SOME opinions on it - hate or love.
Rolo Kipp
One of my thoughts on voting (just toying with it) is a karma system. You start with a karma pool of a hundred. You don't lose karma by voting, but you can only vote your karma. If you get votes for something, it increases your karma pool, allowing you to vote more. If you never get votes, your limited to the votes you can cast.
This would reward frequent contributors and quality contributors and give a vested interest in receiving votes.Thinking about it.
MagicalMaster
More seriously, though, I don't expect everyone to be interested in an action-oriented level 40 module - but you'd think that people who bother to download it would be interested in it, if that makes sense. You could say I'm not annoyed by people who look at it and say "Nah, not really interested" but it is frustrating when people go "Yeah, that looks cool" and then don't say anything.
I'm confused about your proposed karma system. You say you start with 100 and do NOT lose karma by voting. In that case, you can always vote 100 on everything since you never lose anything by voting. What's the point?I also would be strongly against any system that forced players to submit something in order to get karma points - not everyone (indeed, a minority) will create stuff in the toolset.
Rolo Kipp
Re Karma: you don't "spend" karma... That's the finite number of votes you can give. Vote ten point on ten projects... Or five on twenty. The authors of those projects has their pool increased and can vote more. So how many total votes you have out there helping *other* people is a basic dole + received (merit) karma.
All this is a thought experiment at this stage, but the current voting scheme is rather pointless, IMO.
MagicalMaster
So if I vote 10 on 10 projects, I am down to 0 remaining karma (or maxed at 100/100 karma if you prefer) and cannot vote on anything else until someone votes for my stuff?
What's the point of that, *especially* for people who play modules and don't create them?
Rolo Kipp
The value is that the votes mean something. If you only have a hundred points to distribute, you're not gonna slap a ten on everything ever submitted. You're going to think about where to put them and maybe even adjust some over enthusiastic reviews down to give you the mojo to pump up something really good. But, just like gold and other valuables in a campaign, there has to be multiple faucets & sinks and limiting good stuff to CC Makers is pretty short-sighted.
So the karma points would have to be pertinent to any member of the community, whatever their role.The value of each point is increased both for the seller who has a limited supply and the buyer who always needs more.
Perhaps calling them votes is contraindicated. It comes with far too many connotations and the implication of a ten point (or hundred point) scale.
Lots to consider and I'm always willing to listen :-)
Do you mind if I quote the vote-pertinent parts of this Convo?
It'll give give me a start to the thread I want :-)
MagicalMaster
Feel free to quote any of this, sure.
More things to think about:
1, some people play simply play mods that are better than average simply because they choose mods well - saying that they can't rate every amazing mod at a high score doesn't make much sense.
2, even if you did do something like that, it would cause people to game the system. Like I throw up a module with one monster and you say "10/10 would play again!" to give me points to vote on YOUR module and give it a 10.
3, in this system, how do people who simply play modules get more points to distribute?
I'm not saying that the inflated vote system on the vault that has mediocre mods getting scores of 9+ is a good thing. But let's make sure we don't make the situation WORSE than it already is, eh?
MagicalMaster
The good news!
I got a vote and comment on my module (http://nwvault.ign.c....Detail&id=6386) that started with "This module is incredible!"
The bad news!
It's the troll again.
Rolo Kipp
Heh. Want to keep the vote or take out the garbage?
MagicalMaster
KEEP IT! KEEP IT!
Not only do I get a vote of 10, I also got credit for making the final mod in the Prophet series!Damnit, you already deleted it.
As you can see, I'm far too funny to be in charge of this :-)
Er, I meant, I'm trying to think of alternatives.
Researching alternatives brings me to the Slashdot
moderation method, which really looks good to me.
If you think about it, we, as a community, are judging and ranking two separate things. The value (to *us*) of a given project (mod, hak, whatever) and the value (to *us*) of an author (of a project, post, comment, tutorial, editorial, amusing screenshot...).
We have the potential with Neverlauncher of tracking how often (for those willing to participate) a project (not just mods, but any project looking for an update) is used (when it goes online to check for updates). This metric makes far more sense to me than arbitrary votes for ranking projects.
With a karma system similar to Slashdot's in place, this makes much more sense to me than a forum with no (or absent) moderators. And even newbs can see immediately how much weight a given poster has in *this* community.
As I told MM above, this is a thought experiment at the moment, but in the shift from IGN to V2, I want to do *something* better than Kickbong Voting :-P
Give me ideas, questions, concerns, solutions, links...
<...and the dawn of another>
Modifié par Rolo Kipp, 21 avril 2013 - 10:47 .
