Ongoing nwn support - update

[Legacy_Melkior_King]

               For some months now, certain members of the gaming community have been planning and working on a total replacement for the missing Bioware and Gamespy (gs) services, including the master server (ms) and the update server (us).

This announcement is being made now because although we do not have a replacement for the patching service yet, we have tested the ms and gs replacements and we're sure they are working reliably.

The replacement ms may give an error on your first attempt to connect (it did to me) but subsequent connects should then be fine.  The replacement ms calculates a md5 hash from the passcode you provide and (as I understand it) requires you to continue to use that passcode in the future.

The gs replacement (last I knew) listed all servers on the same screen but is going to be updated (if it hasn't already) to separate them into the appropriate rooms.

If you'd like to try the replacement services, either for your server or as a client, contact me with your email address and I will send you an attachment with the patch programs.  One program will patch your executables to use the replacement servers.  The other will "unpatch" the files back to normal.

Similar support for nwn2 is likely but not certain.

Nobody will be "forced" to update or to use the replacement services.  You may use these new services or ignore them, as you wish.  We just want to provide options for those who want them.

If we succeed in this venture, players and server owners will only need to install the game, then patch it once for ongoing support.

The release of an already-patched version of the game and an already-patched critical rebuild are being considered but again, these aren't certain.

The community members involved in this attempt to aid the nwn community
are planning on a patch which will take over the ongoing maintenance and
updating of Neverwinter Nights 1.  More information will be supplied in
this thread when available.  This is a slow process, so don't expect
anything new for at least a month and probably longer.

Or the short version: We promise nothing, but we are doing our best (and hoping for the best).
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Melkior_King, 07 avril 2013 - 02:06 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_virusman]

               How is this different from Skywing's infrastructure + NWNCX and why do we need another one?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_painofdungeoneternal]

               I am more concerned about how it can coexist with skywings established system, without creating a situation where some servers are in one, and others are in another. The main method which is working across the board is the hosts edit ( which is not technically different than patching the game to get it to point to a particular place ). Then players will judge things not on how well they work, but rather does this actually have the servers I want to play on. ( or download one or the other, see it has a third of the active servers and decide NWN1 is dead )

I am also concerned that this is a step backward, losing gamespy is actually an opportunity to do something better, to just recreate it like it was is going to limit the communities options compared to what can be done with API's. I actually originally was using those, and it's extremely slow the way it makes you crawl all the servers after you get the list of IP's.

If it however tied into the skywing backend data, thus joining the ecosystem of various projects and sharing the same list, and letting those running servers choose one method of sending that data and be able to know the various people running the various systems make sure it gets shared, that would be a good thing.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_SkywingvL]

               It is important to avoid fragmenting the community with multiple disconnected server lists that each have incomplete data.  The existing infrastructure works, has game client support with NWNCX and has a number of web based front-ends in addition to a large set of known servers.  Building another, isolated server list doesn't appear overly beneficial if it cannot exchange data with the existing infrastructure.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Sandrax]

               If this is about getting authentication support going and you feel you need to make a new system to make that possible, please say something.  I am sure we can come up with a clever way with enough heads in the room to do that compatibly with Skywing's system for anyone who wants to "opt-in" to an authentication network.

Designing a new system while the existing one has so much programming support is a bad idea.

Amethyst Dragon has provided awesome documentation -
www.neverwinternights.info/builders_hosts.htm
www.neverwinternights.info/nwncx.htm

I also have a version of NWNX2 (windows) that already registers to the list for those who for whatever reason feel really petty about changing their host files, I just haven't released it because I'm making other changes that will make it more friendly with 64-bit systems and some other features; I didn't feel a "hosts" replacement alone was enough to warrant a new version.  Its going to be a busy month, so I'm not working as hard on it as I could, but things are looking up in May.

If anyone feels insane enough to test my work progress, they may, but bugs come and go with every commit....
github.com/addicted2rpg/NWNX2-windows
edit: Binaries are in the 'Distribution' folder link in the above link.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Sandrax, 02 avril 2013 - 07:31 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               What does provide your master server replacement? And how?

Because the original MS maintained at least these two functionalities:

1) checked CD KEY validity
You managed to make this functionality really?

2) checked whether CD KEY is in use across all servers.
I assume this will work only across the servers using this replacement, right?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_painofdungeoneternal]

               

ShaDoOoW wrote...
1) checked CD KEY validity
You managed to make this functionality really?

2) checked whether CD KEY is in use across all servers.
I assume this will work only across the servers using this replacement, right?

Isn't that mainly to verify ownership? I'd not mind such, just to support gog.com and keep official support of the game alive, but really if that is the point, it should be funded by the folks running the DRM system. At this point paying 15-20 bucks to get it installed is more about convenience, and ensuring you have a legit copy without trojans doing other things to your system.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_FunkySwerve]

               I'd like to echo Skywing and virusman. There's already a version of this that works nicely with NWNCX. Adding another not only serves no purpose, but runs counter to the purpose of a uniform community, if the two cannot coexist perfectly. On top of that, NWNCX also offers a robust modding platform, so I'm hard pressed to see any advantage at all in an alternate setup.

Funky
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Melkior_King]

               Answering some of the questions:
* This new service does not require any add-ons.  So no need for NWNX2 or NWNCX to be installed or running.  Just run one patch, once, and the game uses the new service.  This makes it simpler to use and easier to install and maintain for both players and server owners.
-> This simplicity and ease of use is the whole point of the project.

* So far as I know, the new service does not check CD keys.  It only checks passwords after creating the MD5 hash upon the first login.  It would be possible to add the ability to check whether or not the key is already in use on any of the servers which are using the new service, but checking actual validity of keys would not, unless Bioware and gog.com would both cooperate (gog, maybe, but BW, almost certainly not).

* I agree that having multiple unconnected replacement services is a bad idea.  I will discuss with the key player in this process whether or not his system can be made to cooperate with Skywing's system.  If his system and Skywing's cannot be made to cooperate, we will drop this idea and let Skywing have the field.

Expanding on the first point, I have always felt that having to install a third-party piece of software in order to make the game work is a "kludge".  Messy, difficult for the novice and requiring more work than it should.  I believe it discourages new players from joining the game and tends to make us appear "elitist" and unfriendly (I know that last isn't true - I just think that's how we appear to outsiders).

I want to give new players and especially novices a quick, simple, easy way to join the game, without having to learn how to install, run and maintain add-ons.

So, I hope that everyone now understands that, whatever you think of my methods, my intentions are honorable. :-)
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

Melkior_King wrote...

* So far as I know, the new service does not check CD keys.  It only checks passwords after creating the MD5 hash upon the first login.  It would be possible to add the ability to check whether or not the key is already in use on any of the servers which are using the new service, but checking actual validity of keys would not, unless Bioware and gog.com would both cooperate (gog, maybe, but BW, almost certainly not).

Thanks for reply. Thats what I though. So you cannot check CDKEY validity, and you can check whether CDKEY is in use only among those servers using your MS replacement. That wont be an issue if multiple servers agreed to use your replacement.
Now different question, does the MS runs server-side or client-side? I mean, if a nwn server uses your MS replacement, will I able to log in to anyone elses's account if I do not use your client-side modification? I suspect the client-side modification is there only to allow server listing, I ask only to be sure.
Also, does the "Master Server Authentication Required For Player Login=0" ini setting  ( Determines if player login attempts will be refused if the master server could not be reached.) work with your MS replacement? I suppose your service will be more stable than the original one '>, but this is important feature for MS service.

And, have you tested your patching process is clean? Ie not recognized by AVs as false positive? I know there were such reports for NWNCX, not sure if they were fixed though, I dont use any AV myself.

Expanding on the first point, I have always felt that having to install a
third-party piece of software in order to make the game work is a
"kludge".  Messy, difficult for the novice and requiring more work than
it should.  I believe it discourages new players from joining the game
and tends to make us appear "elitist" and unfriendly (I know that last
isn't true - I just think that's how we appear to outsiders).

Agreed, thats what I tried to point to virusman on NWNX forum. But having multiple services is definitely not desired. I hope you agree with SkywingvL to somehow connect both devices etc. If this will happen I may distribute your solution within my Community Patch project, if you'd like.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 05 avril 2013 - 06:28 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Knight_Shield]

               

FunkySwerve wrote...

I'd like to echo Skywing and virusman. There's already a version of this that works nicely with NWNCX. Adding another not only serves no purpose, but runs counter to the purpose of a uniform community, if the two cannot coexist perfectly. On top of that, NWNCX also offers a robust modding platform, so I'm hard pressed to see any advantage at all in an alternate setup.

Funky

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_painofdungeoneternal]

               

Melkior_King wrote...

Answering some of the questions:
* This new service does not require any add-ons.  So no need for NWNX2 or NWNCX to be installed or running.  Just run one patch, once, and the game uses the new service.  This makes it simpler to use and easier to install and maintain for both players and server owners.
-> This simplicity and ease of use is the whole point of the project.

A patch is installing something.

I prefer not to patch my exe, as there are other competing patches.

NWNCX allows for more options, with a separate loader available which allows you to use it without patching your game. This assumes people need to install anything to use skywings data, the NWNCX is just one option, and there are multiple options for players all sharing the same data ( like websites ).

I hope you do rework your system so it also uses skywings system, you might want to just review skywings open source server, and contribute patches instead to allow end users to actually use it directly similar to how you are doing your server, or fix other issues you find. I am concerned though that this might cause an issue with gamespy legally, using soap is actually clever in that it clearly does not use anything similar to gamespy to make things work, which avoids issues with copyright and patents that gamespy most likely has.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par painofdungeoneternal, 05 avril 2013 - 11:49 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_FunkySwerve]

               

Melkior_King wrote...

* I agree that having multiple unconnected replacement services is a bad idea.  I will discuss with the key player in this process whether or not his system can be made to cooperate with Skywing's system.  If his system and Skywing's cannot be made to cooperate, we will drop this idea and let Skywing have the field.

So long as that's covered, the rest of the debate about the virtues of NWNCX vs yours vs whatever is completely moot. If they're nonrivalrous 'products', having another system to choose from is entirely upside for everyone.

Thanks much. '>

Funky
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_ffbj]

               It seems to me its six of one, in that if someone wants to put up a different service that not so much heat need to be directed at them.  Its just another alternative, perhaps one for those who do not want to install NWNCX.  I just don't see the logic in arguing against it.  If people want to, or have installed NWNCX then they will use Skywings, if not then here they have an alternative, with Melikor_Kings et al with their method.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_henesua]

               

Melkior_King wrote...
* I agree that having multiple unconnected replacement services is a bad idea.  I will discuss with the key player in this process whether or not his system can be made to cooperate with Skywing's system.  If his system and Skywing's cannot be made to cooperate, we will drop this idea and let Skywing have the field.

This is key, and you are to be commended for recognizing that getting the two systems to share data and cooperate with one another is necessary.

I hope this works out.

I also agree with Funky that having options is beneficial.