NWN-like Kickstarter ! (Sui Generis)

[Legacy_Nighthirster]

                Hey everybody,

I'm not sure if this is allowed on these forums - so please forgive me if its not. I think its fair to say many RPG enthusiasts are saddened by the lack of multi-player RPGs which allow custom content and persistant worlds. Recently, I came across this kickstarter project:

http://www.kickstart...eneris?ref=live

 
I would encourage you guys to watch the presentation video in its entirety - it's very exciting stuff ! The technology used is awesome, and their toolset is really amazing. Its entirely procedurally generated, so when you create an area you don't have to paint every single little rock, it will actually automatically a path for example and you can edit it however you want !

The combat is also very impressive, especially that the whole game engine was pretty much built from scratch. Anyway, take a look, and if you like, make sure you make some noise on their forums to encourage them - or better yet, contribute to the kickstarter '>.

http://www.baremettl...orums/index.php
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Pearls]

               from how i read the faq its primarily a single player game with a toolset not planned for public use and no further modding planned, it still looks interesting though
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Pearls, 08 novembre 2012 - 06:45 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_kamal_]

               What Pearls said.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Nighthirster]

               Its still early stage - they are considering multiplayer as well as releasing a full toolset. The fact is they created a ton of tools to streamline the development process given the small size of their team. Currently, they're very much open to feedback, which is why I suggest making your voices heard on their forums '>.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Alupinu]

               Yeah... What Pearl said.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_NWN_baba yaga]

               then i dont get it. A toolset not available to modders ehh? ok whatever:D

And sorry, but to support a Team I have no clue about who they are, what each members references are in gaming business or modding in general is nothing where i throw my money at...

edit:
after looking at the screenshots (which are nice) and the video i dont support this thing. Kickstarter seems to mislead some people thinking it´s the money only that makes the magic for game development. When you want to raise some interest you shouldnt show empty dungeon rooms with basic furniture w/o any kind of "cool" or mystic ambience that makes the viewer wonder...uhm yeah... thats looks scary you know?

It´s all to basic, nice but very basic.

I dont hope that modding or game development at this level becomes trough kickstarter a money making idiologic rather then the passion that drives peoples creativity forward. Well, maybe i´m totaly wrong and they can surprise me next time with an update that blows me away:)

p.s. I´m editing like mad!!!
               
               

               

                     Modifié par NWN_baba yaga, 08 novembre 2012 - 06:22 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Nighthirster]

               Haha you guys are a tough crowd! Honestly just drop by the forum and you'll see for yourself, the engine from the ground up is the work of a single guy - the team leader, and they're very much in touch with their community.

http://www.baremettl...orums/index.php

I say give it a chance, I'm not seeing any NWN-like games coming out anytime soon, so this may be worth some consideration '>.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_PlasmaJohn]

               

Nighthirster wrote...

Its still early stage - they are considering multiplayer ...

Multiplayer is not a bolt-on.  It has to be part of the core design and must be considered in every feature proposal (impact of the feature on MP and impact of MP on the feature).  Failure to do this up front makes success vanishingly small.  It also virtually guarantees one or more crippling exploits.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_NWN_baba yaga]

               @Nightthirster
nothing against the enthusiasm and the willpower of these developers but i stand my word on my doubt how they showcase their project without a big reference in their backpack. I wish them good luck and let me surprise in the future but i know many projects (mods btw.) that started out great and vanished into oblivion. And i dont think anyone can reproduce what nwn has to offer, the whole thing is pure magic:)

p.s. when you read the very old interviews with the nwn devs you realize how much MP has effected the whole process...that includes the walkmesh system and the whole lighting/ shadows etc.

I´m not a fanatic when it comes to graphics but as an example. The first 3 screenshots of the Witcher convinced me that this thing will be great. And then they released another bunch of screens month later and i was absolutely sure. These images alone already told a story with the authenticy of the medieval look. And we know what game it is.
 
               
               

               

                     Modifié par NWN_baba yaga, 08 novembre 2012 - 08:32 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Nighthirster]

               @PlasmaJohn

Multiplayer isn't a bolt on or an add-on at this point - what they have is a pretty darn cool game engine developed from the ground up which includes a modular netlayer (much like the CryEngine, the UnrealEngine and so on). They're at this point getting ready to build a game on top of the engine, which is no different than what NWN and most games do/have done.

Frankly, I'm not really concerned on the technical side for them - they have a solid team with some highly talented developers.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_henesua]

               Multiplayer game design is not primarily a technical issue. The bigger issue here is one of design choices and vision. If they have multi-player and modding as a core value, then your post here is relevant. If they do not, then while I do enjoy seeing projects like this, you are simply blowing smoke to publicize a kickstarter campaign. Be careful with that it can backfire.

In any case I like the looks of what they are doing. I'm not a huge fan of the realistic graphics aesthetic, BUT I like the physics of it. In my experiments with the unity engine I've done all the rigid body stuff that they demonstrated and enjoyed seeing how their work behaved in game.

The combat looked very interesting to me too. I've looked at designing a physics based combat experience and thought about how to get OK chain animations to respond to the mouse etc.... but don't have anywhere near the talent to pull off the fluidity that they showed there. Impressive, and it looks like that could be fun.

As for all the rest, it just sounded like boiler plate for "we are hard core into medieval fantasy and realism". Not interesting. But still I liked the film.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Nighthirster]

               Well one can hope Henesua, my intention is not to blow smoke - I personally am deeply craving a next-gen NWN-like game which allows the players free-reign with custom content in a multiplayer context.

This is the closest thing I've seen to this. The reason I'm publicizing it is because their team is still very much in the process of crystallizing their objectives, and are extremely open to community feedback. They are also extremely talented, so technically I have few doubts they can pull it off.

As it currently stands, it seems they are definitely including modding tools, and a multiplayer option for low amounts of players. They are investigating the possibility of high-player worlds currently, their main concern being performance given the amount of physics calculations.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_NWN_baba yaga]

               I dont see any similarity from their project and nwn...Sorry but where is the big picture of both things side by side that i miss? You are very dedicated in advertising it but please... you´re not talking to guys that dont know anything about this game here;)  And you seem to underestimate nwn mate...
               
               

               

                     Modifié par NWN_baba yaga, 09 novembre 2012 - 04:25 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_OldTimeRadio]

               Meh.  I appreciate what these people are trying to do but I'm not so impressed with the comparison between that and NWN.

The real strength in the Aurora engine isn't graphics, it's the ridiculous amount of power you have to program game objects, poll their states, store variables on them, have them interact with other objects and so on.  It really stands out if you grew up playing MUDs as I did.  The fact that you can strap 3D models onto all that power is pure gravy.

So the real worth of a moddable RPG game engine, IMO, isn't necessarily the graphics.  It's what's left after you strip all the graphics away.  Looking at that video, I unconsciously strip out the eye candy like normal maps, the fuzzy volumetric shadows, the physics and I ask "What's left?"

IMO, not so much and definitely nothing comparable to NWN.

The day a better RPG creation system comes along is the day I drop NWN like a hot rock and immediately switch over.  But after 10 years and lots of looking, I still haven't found such a thing.  Not by a long shot.

Again, I appreciate what these folks are trying to do and I wish them great success!
               
               

               

                     Modifié par OldTimeRadio, 09 novembre 2012 - 06:29 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Nighthirster]

               

NWN_baba yaga wrote...

I dont see any similarity from their project and nwn...Sorry but where is the big picture of both things side by side that i miss? You are very dedicated in advertising it but please... you´re not talking to guys that dont know anything about this game here;)  And you seem to underestimate nwn mate...

This isn't advertising, this is about seeing the potential in something early stage baba yaga. I'm well aware of NWN's advantages and shortcomings, thank you, having created two full-scale modules from scratch on NWN1 and NWN 2 and contributed to a number of others. I also happen to be a professional game developer - so I'm not underestimating anybody or trying to push this project - simply encouraging an open mind.

The fact here is that what you see in the presentation is a Game Engine not a fully functional game. The comparison is not between NWN and Sui Generis, but between the Aurora Engine and Sui Generis. 

@OldTimeRadio

The tools available to NWN (NWScript, Toolset, Object variable storage, and so on) are what was built on-top the Aurora Engine. In a similar fashion, such tools, scripting supports and so on exist on a variety of other engines - and will undoubtedly be implemented for this one as well. 

Now you asked: "What's left?"

Well, as you may have noticed the world is entirely procedurally generated and features advanced environment streaming. What does this mean? It means you can conceivably create massive continuous worlds without area transitions, without lag or wait times, and with the ability to mathematically generate these environments so that they look and feel very natural. You can also edit it yourself, and leverage all the freedom available in the current NWN Toolsets.

You might say: sure but thats just graphics, that doesn't matter. I beg to differ, a huge part of immersive gameplay is a convincing world where you can get lost in and - for modders - doesn't require 1000 hours to build. As you might notice in the video, the toolset gives you power while getting out of your way. And for the record, they are planning on including a toolset with release.

What else ? You might say. Well the physics system is unlike anything I've personally ever seen. The notion that your character's movements are not pre-canned in the event of being subjected to natural and super-natural forces is pretty amazing. It also allows for evolving animations: that is how good you are of a swordsman is reflected in how precise and natural your combat movements are. Same with being drunk. I can think of a million other gameplay mechanics which would make it a lot of fun.

But anyway, again, this isn't nor was it meant to be a sales pitch lol. I simply wanted to bring something interesting to the attention of NWN gamers, given their affinity for creation and innovative gameplay. Frankly, I'm a bit surprised at the number of bitter reactions this post has received - cheer up ladies and gents ! NWN is great, but its geting old - and it would be fantastic to see more initiatives which focus on moddable RPGs with a multiplayer component - there really aren't that many.