NWN 1 lives on!

[Legacy_ehye_khandee]

               

Lazarus Magni wrote...

 But seriously… keeping 10 years worth of server logs? Are you crazy??? Come on man… get real (or realistic in the instance of multi-generational owners.) Even if I was that obsessive compulsive, let's say average restart time of 8 hrs, that's 3 restarts per day, over 10 years that's over 100k server logs. Do you really think it is reasonable to go through 100k+ server logs to verify a CD key every time a returning player wants to come back?

0.1 mb X 3 (times a day) X 365 days X 10 years = ~1 gigabyte.

This much data fits more than four times over on a single DVD.

More, you don't even need ALL of that data, you could make due with a few months worth if that is all you have.

The point is not to 'go through all this log data each time a PLAYER logs in' but rather to mine the needed ID information OUT of the log files by automated means, stuff all that into a database that takes pitiful fractions of a second to read and resolve the authenticity of a PLAYER.

I agree it would be nice if the MS never went down or if it were brought back, but the company just does not have any interest in doing the work of bringing it back, heck they don't even talk to us about it anymore. It is over, done, stick a fork in it and walk away.

Your best bet and that of every NWN server out there too is to adapt your own solution. Multiple solutions means it is harder for the bad guys to do what they do that irks us Admins. I feel your pain, I understand your frustration, but none of this has worked and it's been tried for years now - there comes a time when one must concede, you have done all that you can do, the cause lost. There ARE work arounds, it is strongly suggested you cleave to them and not hold your breath for the return of the MS.

It's dead Jim.


Be well. Game on.
GM_ODA
66.232.100.90 cep2.1 +
http://playnwn.com

http://neverwinterconnections.com
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

Lazarus Magni wrote...

I have already discussed at length here:
http://social.biowar...index/8398695/8
Some of the reasons why the absence of the master server is stil a huge issue.

P.S. Shadooow, I am a PW Owner, and we used some of your 1.70 patch, and were quite happy to do so.

yes there are more PW admins that uses some content from my project, because no doubt there are usefull fixes and features. But so far nobody promoted this. Aka, we do use this and this from CP project. And AFAIK there isnt server out there who would dared to use it as a whole.

I have nothing against you Lazarus, I helped you and Kato to extrack the parts from CP you were interest in, but its not nice that people does this. At least, you were so kind and asked, others do not ask at all and then propose these changes as their own, but whatever. I was speaking generally, not against you or your server, and generally you can't say it isn't true.

When I started this project, I was hoping to achieve support from community, that community members join and together we create new standard, just like what happened in Jagged Alliance 2 or Gothic3. Instead - I was from start accused of implying its "community endorsed" which isn't true. And up today nothing changed actually, its just one man show which in the end doesnt differ from numerous HR packages on vault. Big disappointment.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lazarus Magni]

               Ehye,
The thing is, not everybody is a super savy computer person, or IT professional. And you shouldn’t have to be to host a PW. It just creates an immense barrier to those like me who aren’t, and I don’t think that is right. I certainly have no clue how you would “data mine” 100k+ log files (and yes you would need all the logs spawning the whole history of the PW to ensure any returning player’s account is protected), nor do I know how to do what you described with a DB. If you do, and are willing to write up a walkthrough on how, it would be great if you posted it here:
http://social.biowar...index/7846801/4  
It won’t help me out, but it might help others.

But again, this isn’t even the core of the issue as I stated above…
Laz
P.S. Putting a space after a link, creates the link on these boards. E.G.
http://neverwinterconnections.com
http://playnwn.com
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lazarus Magni, 12 novembre 2012 - 08:36 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Lightfoot8]

               @Laz   I think you are confusing the server log with the client log.    The client log overrites itself every time you play a new game,  And yes you would have to have something to rotate/save the old log every time you started up NWN to play.    The server log does not work that way,  It appends the new log to the old one, If you have never deleted the log you still have your compleate server log since you have taken over the server. ( Though it may well be mixed in with data for any other servers you have also ran)


@Ehye,   I dont know where you get your information from the last time I checked a single layer dvd held about 4.3 GB.  your 4 dvd would hold about 13.2 GB.   A server restart would only add less then half a KB to the log. A player logging into and out of the server would add less the .2kb to the log.  Most of the log would be player chatter if the server was set up to log it.   If the log is set to record deaths,  well I think that is just mindless bloating of the log and should be turned off.     and even if the size was greatly large they are text files, they will easly compress 20:1 turning your 1GB file into a 50MB  compressed file.  
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lazarus Magni]

               I don't know what you mean by client log Light? Can you elaborate on what that is? I don't host the server BTW, I pay for hosting to which I have FTP access to. Our nwserverlog1 is started over every restart (meaning completely fresh). And they are backed up to 9 restarts after which they rotate through (newest one pushes out the oldest). Our logs can reach 3 mb per restart depending on how busy we are. And no we don't chat log, although it is a bit overbloated with some useless info.

P.S. Ehye, said 10 years worth of logs would be about 1 GB, which would easily fit on a DVD.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_ehye_khandee]

               

Lightfoot8 wrote...

@Ehye,   I dont know where you get your information from the last time I checked a single layer dvd held about 4.3 GB.  your 4 dvd would hold about 13.2 GB.

Lightfoot8, I'm sure you misread my post which says only:

"This much data fits more than four times over on a single DVD" - I'm not talking about four DVDs, I'm saying ONE GIGABYTE OF DATA WOULD FIT FOUR TIMES ON A single DVD.

The rest of the post directed at me is based on this error so I'll disregard.

Be well. Game on.
GM_ODA

http://playnwn.com

P.S. Thanks laz ... but the space did not seem to do the trick for me here.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ehye_khandee, 12 novembre 2012 - 10:06 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Lightfoot8]

               @Ehye,      My bad.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lightfoot8]

               @Laz, In nwnplayer.ini if ClientEntireChatWindowLogging=1 is set all chat will be logged to the client.

EDIT:  that is if it is set on the players computer.   It is a client setting not a server setting.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lightfoot8, 12 novembre 2012 - 10:39 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Lazarus Magni]

               

Lightfoot8 wrote...

@Laz   I think you are confusing the server log with the client log.    The client log overrites itself every time you play a new game,  And yes you would have to have something to rotate/save the old log every time you started up NWN to play.    The server log does not work that way,  It appends the new log to the old one, If you have never deleted the log you still have your compleate server log since you have taken over the server. ( Though it may well be mixed in with data for any other servers you have also ran) 
 

The server log is definitely not a continum. A new one is started every restart (using the nwnx_restart plugin).It's not the same thing as just reloading the module. It completely shuts down nwserver, and then nwnx reboots it clearing memory buffers, and all that good stuff.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

Lazarus Magni wrote...

Lightfoot8 wrote...

@Laz   I think you are confusing the server log with the client log.    The client log overrites itself every time you play a new game,  And yes you would have to have something to rotate/save the old log every time you started up NWN to play.    The server log does not work that way,  It appends the new log to the old one, If you have never deleted the log you still have your compleate server log since you have taken over the server. ( Though it may well be mixed in with data for any other servers you have also ran) 
 

The server log is definitely not a continum. A new one is started every restart (using the nwnx_restart plugin).It's not the same thing as just reloading the module. It completely shuts down nwserver, and then nwnx reboots it clearing memory buffers, and all that good stuff.

Yes I can confirm this behavior with nwserver running with NWNX. It may be changed only in the plugin source IIRC.

Yet you obviously dealt with this account/CDKEY situation Lazarus, didn't you? Im judging this from the fact that Aventia is running :happy:. So it can't be *that* serious, is it?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lazarus Magni]

               

Lazarus Magni wrote...

Actually Light, that is not the core of the issue, although it is a part. One which I had no control of, and further more the second generation of Aventia, let alone the 3rd would never have been possible with out the vault release of the first. I, the owner of the third, have other ways of pseudo verifying returning players since I have played there nearly the whole time. Of course nothing would be as good as actual account verification from the game developer itself (e.g. what the master server did.) But seriously… keeping 10 years worth of server logs? Are you crazy??? Come on man… get real (or realistic in the instance of multi-generational owners.) Even if I was that obsessive compulsive, let's say average restart time of 8 hrs, that's 3 restarts per day, over 10 years that's over 100k server logs. Do you really think it is reasonable to go through 100k+ server logs to verify a CD key every time a returning player wants to come back?

The core of the issue is the fact that bans are inconsequential. Our players (or any other server's) should not be subject to harassment from some jerk who can whip out a new IP, CD key, and player name faster than I can ban them and restart the server, and neither should our PW (or any other) be vulnerable to said jerks exploiting stuff. With the master server at least it is a financial burden for them to do so (or at the very least o_O a criminal offense), which gives bans much more strength.

Please pay special attention to the second paragraph.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_SHOVA]

               Laz, I am going to let you in on a terrible secret. When the master server was up, the same thing your second paragraph detailed was true as well. There is nothing that can stop someone from using alternate keys, a dynamic IP address, and multiple logins. That has always been the case.

There are other ways to deal with problem players than the ban hammer.
The top one suggested imho is place the problem toon in a cut scene that never ends, have random insults pop up for them to read. and leave them there. Give them a nice small item that they can not drop that ports them back to the cut scene if they log out or a reset happens.

However, the master server isn't a magic fix for the problem player, or a permanent ban database. The only thing the MS was actually good for was ensuring that only the player that created the account could log into that account.

If your PW is having repeated visits from the trolls, the best advice is stop feeding them. Trolls get off on making people deal with them, the drama that surrounds trying to get rid of them, and the chaos when it doesn't work. remove the drama, the chaos, and the attention from them and they will most likely move on. That in my opinion is more constructive for you to do, than trying to get a company to continue support of a game they have stopped supporting. The MS is down, it has been down for over a year, and will likely never come back up. Take a deep breath and accept it. If you need help scripting in some server security, ask funky. he is rather helpful, likes to script, and is a nice guy to talk to.

Good luck!.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lazarus Magni]

               The master server did a bit more than that I believe Shova. It hosted the legacy forums, it required people to create an account with bioware prior to getting on line, it was the repository for registered CD keys, and yes it protected past and present accounts from being compromised. It may have also verified that legitimate CD keys were being used, or at the very least that 1 key was not being used my multiple people at the same time.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_SHOVA]

               It still was not, nor would it be, if it returned, the ultimate answer to banning, or stopping grief type players. The legacy forums, have been gone for so long I personally no longer remember them, nor care if they return. This forum, though a bit less user friendly is perfectly fine for the NWN community. However the forums are a moot point, as they won't fix the ban/grief problem that seems to be fueling your charge here.

Even if it did return, there was no actual check of how many log ins per key. Now with NWN being available for $10, and that GOG will give you a multi-play CD key when you ask them, players probably have a few copies anyway. I know I have had 4 copies, since HotU came out. Keys can be mixed and matched, With or without a master server.

You might as well be beating a dead horse. You have a better chance getting hit by a meteor while at a Justin Bieber concert than it coming back. I suggest you ask for help on the scripting forums for ways to secure your server, Stop giving drama, and attention to the problem players that show up on your PW, as they like it, and focus on moving forward without the MS.  However, If you can not find scripting help to your liking, You can always set your PW to password to play. Make people join your PW forums, before they play on your PW that alone is probably enough to end the grief your getting in game.

Good luck!
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               deleted

disregard what I have written and then deleted, the account protection can be reinvent via NWNX to work just as the MS did

the only difference is that it wont be possible to make it from game itself using register account button, but instead each PW must do it on their own

It would be possible to maintain new MS service, but from reasons I mentioned above, I don't think that NWN community as a whole ever agrees to do it
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 14 novembre 2012 - 12:29 .