NWN 1 lives on!

[Legacy_NWN DM]

               

Lazarus Magni wrote...

It sure seems like it. 

...

3) The attempted shut down of ... nwnconnections ...

Not sure where you're pulling all this from but it might be time for a safety wipe.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lazarus Magni]

               In case you hadn't been paying attention over the last year or so, but many of the prominent NWN 1 sites (like the vault, and connections) were (and possibly still are) near (or over the brink) of collapse. Might be time to wash your own hands...
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lazarus Magni, 10 novembre 2012 - 12:31 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_MrZork]

               LM, your statement 3) above clearly implies that there was an attempt to shut down some NWN sites, and you specifically named the Vault and nwnconnections. So, what direct evidence is there that someone attempted to shut them down? Obviously, such evidence would exclude unintended technical glitches which limited access or upgrades that took time to finish.

And, maybe there was such an attempt and I never heard of it. But, it would be wrong to conflate sites that suffer degraded functionality due to inattention or lack of upgrades with sites where a deliberate actor is actually attempting to shut them down.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lazarus Magni]

               You are right, I have no direct evidence. Only a suspicion based off the timing of events. Only the site owners would be able to answer that. I guess I should have phrased 3 as a question, and I will edit it accordingly. My apologies Bioware. But I would still like to know, was there a concerted effort to kill this game off? And if not it would be great to hear someone from Bioware say:

Absolutely not, we still love this game, and are proud of it’s longevity and continued relevance, as well as the communities continued interest.

And give us some explanation for the wall of silence we have received from them since shortly after the master server went down, when they kinda just left us all hanging with promises of working on the issue which never came to fruition.

I really don’t think it’s too much to ask for a definitive decision regarding the MS, announced publicly or at least a long overdue update, and an indication from them they want to see the community remain strong, and continue. And don’t give me that, silence was the answer malarkey, or having these forums as an indication of their support (these forums are for every game they ever made, to not include NWN 1 would be really weird to say the least.) Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate the forum access, heck my PW’s group is here, despite offers for free hosting from other sites. All I would like to see is an assurance from them that they still support our/their community, and are willing to be open and honest with us as to the status of things.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lazarus Magni, 11 novembre 2012 - 07:29 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_NWN DM]

               Neverwinter Connections ran for years with the "owner" essentially being 98% absent, only showing up when something went wrong.  Finally (so the message was), he lost access to the host server and after 10+ years didn't want to go through the hassle of moving it.

So some other people took what was there and tried to make it functional again.  That it's been a WIP for at least 15 months now, doesn't give me a lot of hope that it will ever return even at a fraction of the greatly diminished stature it once had... but the attempt is/was there.

Nothing to do with BioWare, Atari or any other incompetent/nefarious happenings involved.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_ehye_khandee]

               

NWN DM wrote...

So some other people took what was there and tried to make it functional again.  That it's been a WIP for at least 15 months now, doesn't give me a lot of hope that it will ever return even at a fraction of the greatly diminished stature it once had... but the attempt is/was there.

No offense but there is some misinformation there that I would like to clear up. Moving NWC has been a WIP since slate spring of 2012 - work went on hiatus during the summer months for two reasons, we needed many users with many browsers and OSs to try out the parts we completed in 'Phase One' and because summer electricity is a dicey matter for our Lead Programmer who lives on the isle of Cyprus (a generation plant that produced half the islands' electricity was destroyed last year and the islanders use of air conditioning in the summer months puts the whole isle on roving brownouts (bad for computers and internet connections).

"Phase One" looked after the essential unique feature of the neverwinterconnections.com site : the game scheduling portion and the highly linked and essential listing of NWN and NWN2 servers. Phase One was completed successfully before the power became too awful in the early summer.

Erin and I are presently reviewing all the feedback we recieved during the summer hiatus and are preparing to begin 'Phase Two' which will include scratch-coding and re-connecting the old forum and several other features, some of which are NEW (details TBA).

We look forward to restoring the remaining functions of neverwinterconnections.com in the next few weeks. The site in its current condition is available at:

neverwinterconnections.com

Anyone interested in helping us with debugging and testing NWC please see:

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/199/index/10808444

Be well. Game on!
GM_ODA
66.232.100.90 cep2.1+

playnwn.com
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_kamal_]

               In the nwn2 forums, the new people running neverwinterconnections.com put up a thread (thread by nwn1 PW runner ehye_khandee)
http://social.biowar.../index/12655490

I can't find them, but there were also threads by ehye_khandee explaining what happened with neverwinterconnections.com
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               It's systematic dismantling if you are referring to the normal obsolescence process that legacy games encounter in the egaming cycle.  NWN has stretched that cycle farther out than could have been realistically expected.  Considering the community has been flying solo for so long without a binding agency to set a unified direction, its peristence in any form at all is remarkable.

Just like in RL, when there are fewer participants available, the responsibility to continue the same degree of service falls on a scant few, who if they become absent for any RL issues, their efforts (or lack) are conspicuously noticeable by whatever is left of the community to observe the consequences.  Those members commanding these legacy stations are the most devoted and enthusiastic NWNers left since the game and its resources are no longer deemed a marketable commodity by the game ownership and has received no support for many years now.  I am constantly amazed at how the community continues to shoulder the weight of continuing service regardless of personal extenuating circumstances.

On the positive side of the ledger, name any game that has persisted with any level of significant interest after 10 years and we can forward the award over to them.  None occur to me off-hand. 
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               Why is absence of master server any issue? Due to this, nobody needs to buy this game to play it anymore so this could actually increase players playing NWN hehe.

Also, what do we need Bioware for anymore? We have skills to make amazing content. There is just a small problem that the NWN community is not able to agreed on what should be and what shouldn't be. My attempt to further patch this game is clear evidence. Not only this project took no support from NWN vault, NWNWiki, CEP or whatever, it has been and still is slandered by the PW admins out there. Neither NWN wiki provides correct informations, seems like The Krit is systematically writing falsehoods.

So this is imo the main problem in this time. We can make even the fourth expansion, but the community never agrees whether it should look like CEP2 or like Project Q. What should be the standards and what shouldn't.

Nobody cannot really stop us and future players from playing this game. Why you need support of the bioware to play/host your module Lazarus is mystery to me.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 11 novembre 2012 - 10:26 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_ehye_khandee]

               Shadooow, You will note, the community did not come to any concensus for the production of ANY nwn expansion. Choose your own route and stop worrying what others say/do. Ducks do not march goosestep, ya know?

Be well. Game on.
GM_ODA
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lazarus Magni]

               I have already discussed at length here:
http://social.biowar...index/8398695/8
Some of the reasons why the absence of the master server is stil a huge issue.

P.S. Shadooow, I am a PW Owner, and we used some of your 1.70 patch, and were quite happy to do so.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lazarus Magni, 12 novembre 2012 - 05:16 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Lightfoot8]

               

ShaDoOoW wrote...

Why is absence of master server any issue?

For their server, It comes down to a bad decision made by their admin team.   That decision was the posting of their server vault to a location that could be downloaded by all of the players.   At least that is what I gathered from the other thread.    Of cource when someone else called that a bad decision on their part, LM  took an offensive stance and the thread just keept degrading from there.   

 So the basic problem is that other players can log into old player accounts and there is no way to tell if it was the original player on the first Login.   

If they had keept the server logs from day one, it would be an easy fix.   But I guess that have not keept them since I have never gotten an answer in every thread that I have asked about them in.  
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lightfoot8, 12 novembre 2012 - 07:09 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               

Lazarus Magni wrote...
I have already discussed at length here:
http://social.biowar...index/8398695/8
Some of the reasons why the absence of the master server is stil a huge issue.

I sympathize with the frustrations trying to secure your server but exactly how long would the MS need to be down before you realized that neither Bioware nor Atari intend to allocate any resources to reimplement it and maintain it?  A year?  2?  3?  Dialogue with the legacy agents have ceased, as difficult as it may be to recognize that fact.  It's more than just resurrecting it again.  It will require a dedicated agent (or agents) to continue to maintain it or the community will face the same situation again.  I suspect the main reason for the permanent disappearance has to do with the final realization of how much of their design resources would be necessary to prevent the security disaster that supposedly compromised the server before.  Only a guess on my part, but it seems a standard pitfall that many companies are succumbing to... underestimating costs/efforts and reducing their staff to the point where it can no longer provide service as contracted. 

The only recourse, a recourse that is not an option in this case, is boycott.  Just stop buying.  If the lost sales is significant enough, you'll get service restored.  Public relations is a very small concern of large software companies.  They have no conscience.

It should be be fairly easy to extrapolate the fact that the status quo has been reached and that the community itself will either fabricate suitable security work-arounds or the current insecure condition will persist until the player base disappears completely.

If ranting and petitioning serves as some sort of catharsis for you, all well and good, but it has not, and more likely than not, will not produce the outcome you seek... restoration of the MS.  The energy and time expended trying to estimate the resources needed, the implementation issues, the restatement of implied warranty and the attempts to canvass the game owner and designer for assistance would probably be better spent incorporating your own safeguards the best you can.   I believe there are servers that are handling the problem adequately already, independant of the MS provisions.

Yeah, it's a huge issue. Just not one that the shrunken community has any control over.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lazarus Magni]

               Actually Light, that is not the core of the issue, although it is a part. One which I had no control of, and further more the second generation of Aventia, let alone the 3rd would never have been possible with out the vault release of the first. I, the owner of the third, have other ways of pseudo verifying returning players since I have played there nearly the whole time. Of course nothing would be as good as actual account verification from the game developer itself (e.g. what the master server did.) But seriously… keeping 10 years worth of server logs? Are you crazy??? Come on man… get real (or realistic in the instance of multi-generational owners.) Even if I was that obsessive compulsive, let's say average restart time of 8 hrs, that's 3 restarts per day, over 10 years that's over 100k server logs. Do you really think it is reasonable to go through 100k+ server logs to verify a CD key every time a returning player wants to come back?

The core of the issue is the fact that bans are inconsequential. Our players (or any other server's) should not be subject to harassment from some jerk who can whip out a new IP, CD key, and player name faster than I can ban them and restart the server, and neither should our PW (or any other) be vulnerable to said jerks exploiting stuff. With the master server at least it is a financial burden for them to do so (or at the very least o_O a criminal offense), which gives bans much more strength.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lazarus Magni, 12 novembre 2012 - 08:39 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Lazarus Magni]

               
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lazarus Magni, 12 novembre 2012 - 08:22 .