NWN 1 lives on!

[Legacy_Lazarus Magni]

               It sure seems like it. 

1)      Halting premium modules.

A) Actually this had little effect, since the community was already, and continued to produce equal if not better content.

2)      Shutting down the master server and the forums.

Again the community bounced back by putting out their own security systems and omnibus to access previous forum info. However the damage was done, and continues to be.

3) The apparent attempted shut down of the nwn vault, nwnconnections, and associated sites? The timing of these events just seemed way to coincidental to me.

C) Once again the community bounced back. Restoring these on their own as best they could.

4) Allowing subversive forum posts on the nwn 1 boards.

D) Allowing interests from other games (e.g. WOW) to exert their agenda on nwn 1 boards, constitutes complicity toward their agenda, and a willful abandonment of NWN 1.

5) Discontinued support from gamespy to the built in multiplayer functionality. 
 
It seems like the gaming industry wants NWN 1 to go away, and yet we are still here. We, the players (including developers, and PW owners) love this game. What I ask for is that the original developers acknowledge the amazing thing they put out, and hopefully gaming companies can see it as an opportunity rather than a threat.
 
The potential of unleashing your player’s/consumer’s creativity is unlimited. Let us exercise our creativity. Don’t just let us, but foster it. I am absolutely convinced it could be in everyone’s best interest (e.g. the players, the developers, and the gaming companies) if done correctly.

That being said, the community has an amazing capacity to keep this game alive despite the blows it has recieved.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lazarus Magni, 26 mars 2013 - 11:49 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_NWN_baba yaga]

               I remember Trent Oster words like he realy loved or still loves nwn and so I think many of the original crew members feel about this gem of a game. It´s part of their life:) But that Atari had an agenda against it is clear to me... with their announcement of nwn2 and their force against any official support or future development of it. They had nothing to lose from the premium module concept! The same fate shared nwn2 with the disastrous "support" for MoW etc.... they surely kicked some a** with their style of business.

But that EA and Bioware still keeps up these forums is very cool, they dont need to. And i dont want to bash them:D

I always wondered why many gaming sites promoted halflife mods on a regular basis but not some of the realy good and outstanding nwn mods. I dont remember any mod except the premium ones that got some attention. So for gaming sites nwn must have been a niche game for d&d nerds:D . And it is the most modable game (to me) till today...
               
               

               

                     Modifié par NWN_baba yaga, 08 novembre 2012 - 08:00 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_PlasmaJohn]

               Why do you keep refloating this tired theory every few months?

There is no conspiracy against NWN and there never was.  Its commercial support crumbled when the relationships between Infogrames (Atari), Hasbro and Bioware disintegrated.  The EA acquisition of Bioware made the latter's involvement officially impossible because NWN is a competitor's product.

That said, Bioware's support has gone well above and beyond the industry norm and EA has been uncharacteristically gracious by allowing these forums to remain.  We've gotten so much value out of the NWN platform that EA and Bioware don't owe us a thing.

I applaud your energy in trying to have certain issues addressed, but you'd have a better return if you use them to find somebody to help you with your technical issues.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lazarus Magni]

               It just seems sad to me. There still has been no game like this produced since. And it is disheartening that such an amazing model for a game, which gives us players such freedom to express creativity, share, and experience collectively it in a multiplayer format, was seen as a bad thing by the gaming industry. When in reality, it could have been a very good thing for them.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_PlasmaJohn]

               

Lazarus Magni wrote...

... And it is disheartening that such an amazing model for a game ... was seen as a bad thing by the gaming industry. ...

Ah, now there's something I can relate to.  Almost all of the big publishers are publically traded and like every other "big" corporation they pretty much live quarterly report to quarterly report.  If they can't demonstrate that they're doing everything they can to extract a revenue stream from their consumers then they risk shareholder lawsuits.

They're all busy chasing WOW killers, shiny FPS derivatives and Madden $next_year. Things they know will sell millions of units to the 18-35 male demographic.

The addiction to quarterly earnings affects more than just the games industry and people are starting to realize the damage it's doing to corporate management.  Sooner or later it will end and the focus will shift back to making products and services that people want.  Until that happens innovation will be left to the Indies.

If you look around you will find a variety of NWN like projects but for the most part they're in perpetual alpha/beta state with no clear plan to make them end-user friendly.  ( I keep meaning to see what the Worldforge guys are up to www.worldforge.org/ )
               
               

               

                     Modifié par PlasmaJohn, 08 novembre 2012 - 09:34 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_leo_x]

               Betteridge's law of headlines

What do you propose as a way forward, Lazarus?  Or is this just an airing of grievances?  Bioware will _never_ revisit the NWN model.  Look at Dragon Age 3, they've moved to the Frostbite 2 engine which not only doesn't have a toolset, it's been actively hostile to any modding.  The question of whether or not Bioware is headed for the glue factory is itself an open question: Mythic, Victory Drop 'BioWare' Label.  I'm personally pessimissitc about any NWN Enhanced Edition, since the whole Baldur's Gate EE thing looks like a lead baloon to me.

I think an interesting question is, could the NWN community rally around an open source reimplementation (that didn't limit itself by the most poorly done aspects of NWN)?  People in the community have the skill, there is no question of that.  The question that remains: "Is it worth it?"
               
               

               

                     Modifié par pope_leo, 08 novembre 2012 - 11:15 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_NWN_baba yaga]

               I also think it comes down to what we as the community make of it. Since the support ended everything was done by us to keep it going or enhance it and that is a very good sign for a community. I focus on what we have achieved and not what others could have done better etc. We have proved over many years now that we dont seriously need anything other then our dedication and creativity.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_henesua]

               

pope_leo wrote...
I think an interesting question is, could the NWN community rally around an open source reimplementation (that didn't limit itself by the most poorly done aspects of NWN)?  People in the community have the skill, there is no question of that.  The question that remains: "Is it worth it?"

I agree that this is the most interesting question.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Pstemarie]

               Wow, NWN Conspiracy Theorists - might they one day become as famous (or infamous) as other Conspiracy Theorists? '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_cds13]

               I think that is marketing after all, maybe they didn't expect all of this success but are focusing their efforts in order to build games that can actually size with other software houses' creations. Simply they want us to buy their new games, I think
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_SHOVA]

               Conspiracy or no, the community is active, PWs are popular, New content is being made, and people are still posting here. NWN will continue to be here for along time, regardless of how many Conspiracy posts are made.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_PlasmaJohn]

               I took a quick poke at Worldforge last night.  I was finally able to get it to launch, but it's still very rough.  It doesn't have a toolset but I think somebody's working on one for it.

While grabbing the files for it, Sourceforge suggested the Multiverse Foundation  That's interesting because the codebase was formerly commercial.  More toys to play with '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lazarus Magni]

               

pope_leo wrote...

Betteridge's law of headlines

What do you propose as a way forward, Lazarus?  Or is this just an airing of grievances?  Bioware will _never_ revisit the NWN model.  Look at Dragon Age 3, they've moved to the Frostbite 2 engine which not only doesn't have a toolset, it's been actively hostile to any modding.  The question of whether or not Bioware is headed for the glue factory is itself an open question: Mythic, Victory Drop 'BioWare' Label.  I'm personally pessimissitc about any NWN Enhanced Edition, since the whole Baldur's Gate EE thing looks like a lead baloon to me.

I think an interesting question is, could the NWN community rally around an open source reimplementation (that didn't limit itself by the most poorly done aspects of NWN)?  People in the community have the skill, there is no question of that.  The question that remains: "Is it worth it?"

It depends on what you are talking about for a way forward. If you speaking about NWN 1 specifically: Bringing back the master server would be a start. There is a petition here for that, which has received nearly 100 signatures:
http://social.biowar...13928357-1.html
 
Bringing back premium modules would also be something. Not only would it reward player’s creative endeavors, but would be a way for continued revenue for Bioware from this game (the absence of which I firmly believe is the main reason for the current state of things over the last couple years, and especially the last year or so.) Additionally buying out a high quality and low cost hosting company, could be a means for further continued revenue.
 
I know, I know. They can’t or won’t do these things for this reason, or that reason, which we have discussed ad nauseam
 
Ultimately I don’t know if there is much of a way forward, other than just limping along as we have been. If there is, it would probably ultimately come from the community collectively (e.g. the 10 year anniversary NWPAD event which received absolutely no promotion or endorsement from Bioware.)
 
 
 
If your talking about a new game following in the NWN 1 legacy (no not franchise, I mean the precedent it set as a free to play, nearly open source, single and multiplayer game.) Much has been discussed by many people here:
http://social.biowar...13633358-1.html
 
It would take a few things.
 
1)      Learning from the lessons of NWN 1. Those being:

a)      Keep the franchise in your own house.
      Think about the long term goals, no just quarterly earnings as PlasmaJohn noted. In other words, think about the long term revenue potential and how this could be achieved. (There are a number of possibilities that have been mentioned: Offering a hosting service as good or better than commercial alternatives, and more affordable. Continued support of premium modules and endorsement/promotion of them. Official PWs [with out excluding player made ones]. And one that hasn’t… don’t be so quick to move on to a sequel. WoW hasn’t done it yet, and they are still doing fine, which proves, you don’t need to upgrade to a new car if your still getting good mileage of your existing one. Fear of, oh we have to capitalize off the franchise name while gamers still remember it was disproved by Fallout [e.g. look at how long it took between Fo2 and Fo3. And then look at what happened when it went from Fo3 to NV.]
c)      Adequate initial and sustained marketing… WoW still runs commercials for example. People might think how could you justify running a commercial for a 10 year old game… Well, those people I think are overlooking the allure of a game that can be molded by the player, and especially one in a multiplayer format (like NWN 1.) Even after all the expansions have been released and promoted, how do you think gaming consumers would respond to seeing an ad for a game that was promoting community contributed content? Like wow… Not only is the original game awesome, but it could be a creative outlet that is shared in a multiplayer format, and is endorsed my the original company.
d)      Probably the most difficult thing of all for a company. Recognizing that long term sustained profit, even if it is not on the level of WoW’s, is still profit, and still has worth.

2)
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lazarus Magni, 09 novembre 2012 - 07:16 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_PlasmaJohn]

               I poked around the Mutiverse Foundation's site today and was reminded that there were technical reasons why I discounted the platform in the past.  The core technology is Axiom which is a .Net port of the Ogre3d engine.  Simply put, that makes it unsuitable for cross-platform compatibility.

*... resumes the never-ending search*
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Drewskie]

               Atari did pretty much everything they could to stifle development of NWN1 by killing off the premium mod program.  They very nearly even stopped Wyvern Crown's release, after the community/bioware had invested massive amounts of work in it.  So it's a shame Atari didn't dissolve entirely when they filed for bankruptcy a fear years back, as it was much deserved.

I've very little respect for wotc either...  refusing any nwn mod work to be done within the planescape or dragonlance settings, as if there were versions of these in the works, or on the market to begin with... Don't even know what they're trying to do currently.  Looks like they're after the nostalgia buck, re-releasing 30+ year old 1ed materials.