I can only say that since in NWN the environment is practically infinitely variable, that there is no
inherent munchkin-like build that is consistent in all of them (whereas the munchkin playstyle is).
What is certain, is that in each environment, there are builds that are powerful for that specific environment.
As to your question, SM - obviously it is subjective and arbitrary when discussing the game mechanic(s) as related to munchkinism. Instead, as we have defined it, munchkin is a playing style.
One can have a powerful build, and not be munchkin.
MM said:
I'm saying it can be either or both.
Let's boil this down to two questions:
1, is there such a thing as a munchkin build, period?
2. is there such a thing as a munchkin build in NWN?
In answer to No. 1, yes. In any specific environment, one can have what one might wish to refer to as a munchkin-style build.
In answer to No. 2, no. The reason being, that since each environment in NWN is unique, there is no one build that
is inherently munchkin. There are, of course, for that specific environment, builds that one might refer to as munchkin (see above answer to No. 1).
For example, you might have a munchkin build in WoW. But is that same build also munchkin in, say, SWKotOR?
MM said :
If the answer to #1 is no, then obviously the answer to #2 is ALSO no.
But if the answer to #1 is yes, then we have to consider the *possibility* that #2 might also be a yes.
Explained above, and in practically every explanation that I have given here.
MM said :
Hence my question about Pun Pun. Pun Pun might not be part of the core rules, but the rules that make him possible are rules that were officially written, it's not like a random DM decided "Okay, let me make up a few rules out of thin air for tonight." So if we assume a DnD game where the DM allows those supplements...
...is Pun Pun a munchkin build?
Pun Pun may (or may not, according to WHAT THE DM ALLOWS IN HIS/HER CAMPAIGN) be a munchkin build, depending on what the environment is.
Case in point, Pun Pun is only munchkin in an environment where magic is readibly available. In an environment where there is no magic (DMZ, etc) or one where the rules of magic are different (many Outer Planes, for example), Pun Pun would not be as useful.
Again, this is where your WoW mentality is failing in NWN (and D&D) - WoW only has the one environment, and only one ruleset that works there. In NWN (and especially D&D), that is not the case. You do not seem to be able to grasp this. Don't you see that environment is the deciding factor here?
Any build that one refers to as "munchkin" in NWN (and even moreso in D&D) has to first take into account the environment before making the reference.
I will give you a solid example, perhaps then you will understand.
You are playing the OC. You have a specific build (say ES) that you consider munchkin for it.
Now take that same build, and play on a server where the PRC is enabled, and you have liches, etc running around.
Or you are now on a server where there is very low magic (limited to level x) - or perhaps a server where levelling is very, very slow, perma-death is active, rest heavily restricted, and the highest character is level 6. Are you sure now, that the ES is here munchkin? I can say that the character at level 6 is a Paladin, and that there are almost no Mages (Sorcerers) at all - because they normally die in 1 ~ 2 hits, and there is NO RAISE or RESSURECTION possible because there is no-one high enough level to do this. And yes, I have played on a server like this.
^Here, the munchkin build was a Ranger/Druid/Mage - due to the Animal Companions+Familiar+Summons. A mega-solo build for that specific environment.
So one can see that the ES is no longer munchkin at all, but a sub-par build that no munchkin would touch.
As you can plainly see, environment is the deciding factor here. Where it is the same, one can have builds that one may wish to refer to as munchkin that is common to those similar environments. Where the environment is not the same, those builds may or may not be referred to as munchkin, appropriately.
Thus, there is no one build in NWN that is inherently munchkin in every environment - the only possible exception would be hacked .bics with super 2das that pass ELC checks. Though they may not be then munchkin on a Server where this type of gameplay is expected and encouraged (hacked .bics and super2das).
Again, one has to take the specific environment into account here
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This goes doubly so for any PnP D&D game.
Modifié par WebShaman, 20 septembre 2012 - 11:53 .
