The future of NWN 1 (and some commentary on MMOs in general)

[Legacy_MrZork]

               [Sorry. Clicked the wrong thing.]
               
               

               

                     Modifié par MrZork, 25 août 2012 - 12:03 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Urk]

               

MagicalMaster wrote...

That's not an answer.  Please point to a spot or spots where you think I've been trolling.  Otherwise, stop calling me a troll.

Dude, you are SO a troll. Lazarus... stop feeding the troll.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               

Urk wrote...

MagicalMaster wrote...

That's not an answer.  Please point to a spot or spots where you think I've been trolling.  Otherwise, stop calling me a troll.

Dude, you are SO a troll. Lazarus... stop feeding the troll.

For a troll, I've been usually helpful here and here and I seem to have a remarkable interest in the game shown here.

Point to where I've been trolling, explain how I've been trolling, or stop calling me a troll.

Lazarus Magni wrote...

If you're not planning on breaking into my home than there is nothing to feel threatened or intimidated by. I have had my place broken into before, and so it’s not a topic of conversation I take lightly. Nor are claims of hacking my bank account.

I'll repeat my query, as you didn't seem to understand it:

Tell me ONE reason that you'd mention that law if it wasn't to threaten and try to intimidate me.

Lazarus Magni wrote...

P.S. LOL yes, you taking things out of context and changing the words or the meaning is one of the biggest issues I have with your "debate" style. It's misleading, and false.

You still haven't shown a spot where I took something out of context or changed the meaning.

You pointed to a spot where I omitted a three paragraph quote because repeating the quote changed nothing about what I was saying.  It simply took up space.  My response to that section has exactly the same meaning with or without the quote.

Lazarus Magni wrote...

P.P.S.
Why would it matter if I am a native english speaker or not? My cultural, ethnic, or national origin is none of your buisness frankly.  And furthermore neither is information about how much disposable income I have, or what I would be willing to spend it on.

Why does it matter if you're a native english spaker or not?

Hmm...

Magical Master wrote...

"Incidentally, are you a native English speaker?  It seems you're often missing nuances and sarcasm."

and then

Magical Master wrote...

"Incidentally, are you a native English speaker?  It seems you're often missing nuances and sarcasm."

If you really can't see why I'm wondering if you're a native English speaker, *than that's exactly the problem.*

Nor do I care about how much disposable income you have.  I don't care if you make $20,000 a year, $200,000 a year, or $2 million a year.  I do care, however, whether your moral stand against subscriptions applies to a subscription that is minute.  In other words..

Now let's go back and try something again for the tenth (eleventh, twelve?) time.

Say Blizzard charged $5 for WoW and $0.10 a month as a subscription fee.  Over eight years, this would be $14.60 total spent.  In other words, far less than what you paid for NWN back when you bought it.  If that was the case, would you be willing to subscribe to WoW if you liked the game or would you refuse because there's a subscription?

Show me the common courtesy of actually answering *one* very simple question.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par MagicalMaster, 25 août 2012 - 01:55 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_SHOVA]

               how quickly this topic fell to the bickering. Back to topic, NWN isn't pay to play. Everyone here plays NWN. So the future of pay to play MMOs has no relevance for NWN, or the NWN community. If members of this community do care about paying to play other games, perhaps they should go to those game forums, and voice any concerns there, where they may find a more receptive audience.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_henesua]

               Yeah... if only I had a ban hammer....
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lazarus Magni]

               

SHOVA wrote...

how quickly this topic fell to the bickering. Back to topic, NWN isn't pay to play. Everyone here plays NWN. So the future of pay to play MMOs has no relevance for NWN, or the NWN community. If members of this community do care about paying to play other games, perhaps they should go to those game forums, and voice any concerns there, where they may find a more receptive audience.

Actually, if you consider PW owners... players, which I do, NWN 1 is pay to play. It's free for the majority of players, but not PW owners. You have to pay for hosting, and that is one of the main points I have been making. We PW owners pay for hosting, but we don't pay bioware. I love my host, and no disrespect to them (heck maybe bioware will buy them out as an experiment, and they will be better off for this exposure), but the fact is if bioware would have been getting additional revenues from this game from hosting, they would still to this day have a reason to support it. (AKA the master server at the very least.) Or how bout being a part, and promoting it's 10th year aniversary? They didn't even support that effort in the least. It was a 3rd party (gog.com) that did and the community. Honestly if you ask me, bioware wanted NWN 1 to die when it pulled the plug on the master server. Their website got hacked? How is that relevant to the master server? Seemed more like an excuse to me, to kill off a game they are no longer getting a profit from, and would rather see die than continue. Which comes full circle to one of my points. If bioware actually offered a hosting service, they would still be making money of NWN 1, still have a reason to support it, and it would still be free for the majority of players.

Laz

P.S. MM, lol you have already proved my points on so many occasions it's not even funny. I don't feel the need to waste my time cut and pasting them.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lazarus Magni, 25 août 2012 - 05:29 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Urk]

               You mean I can't convince people I'm right just by saying the same things over and over again?
http://www.urbandict...m=concern troll
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Urk, 25 août 2012 - 05:35 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               

SHOVA wrote...

how quickly this topic fell to the bickering. Back to topic, NWN isn't pay to play. Everyone here plays NWN. So the future of pay to play MMOs has no relevance for NWN, or the NWN community. If members of this community do care about paying to play other games, perhaps they should go to those game forums, and voice any concerns there, where they may find a more receptive audience.

Didn't this topic *start* with bickering when the original poster insulted people who play P2P games?

Lazarus Magni wrote...

P.S. MM, lol you have already proved my points on so many occasions it's not even funny. I don't feel the need to waste my time cut and pasting them.

Them?  I asked for *one.*  Apparently that's too much trouble?

And why won't you answer my question about whether you'd consider a P2P game if the subscription was low enough?  If you think P2P is truly a scam as a principle, then you should easily enough be able to say you wouldn't consider it.

Or is the issue you realize that while you can claim a given subscription cost is too high for you per month, claiming the same thing holds for *any* subscription cost is silly?

Urk wrote...

You mean I can't convince people I'm right just by saying the same things over and over again?
http://www.urbandict...m=concern troll

Let me see if I'm following you:

1, according to you, I hate NWN and love WoW
2, I have made helpful posts and been modding NWN so I can claim I actually like NWN
3, thus, because I can claim that, I can troll people better...because I actually hate NWN

Do I have that right?  Does that really make more sense than maybe that I like NWN but see its flaws, just like I like WoW but see its flaws as well?  And I don't agree that P2P is a scam and am thus defending it?
               
               

               

                     Modifié par MagicalMaster, 26 août 2012 - 12:58 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Urk]

               No... I think your a troll because YOU WON'T LET IT GO. You've had your say. You've dragged this out for FOUR pages. We've all MORE that heard you out and... NEWS FLASH... You haven't changed anybody's mind. In fact, quite the contrary, if anything my opinion has be reinforced.

Of course this is my fault, not yours.

I know better than to quibble with trolls.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Urk, 26 août 2012 - 02:32 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_SuperFly_2000]

               Please stop calling anyone a troll...
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_WebShaman]

               Hmmmm...well, one doesn't have to have a hosting service to host a NWN PW, btw.  Just a server.

Which, of course, reduces the costs involved here.  Point in fact - I ran a number of NWN PWs on a nice, put-together linux box (server).  Ran really well - and didn't cost me anything (spare parts laying around from all the computers that I own).  The operating system is also free.  The internet usage is covered in my flat rate internet fee.

I strongly believe that many of us would have continued to use the above mentioned option, rather than pay Bioware money for hosting.  I know I would have.  Depends, I guess, on the hosting fee, and what one would be receiving for it.  More patches, content, etc?  That might tickle my fancy.

For the record - I do not consider MM a troll.

One more little thing here -

MrZork wrote...

I think the reality is that the P2P MMOs, particularly WoW, are offering a service that people are willing to pay the subscription price to get. They know what they are getting and it's worth it to them.

This breaks things down to the heart of the matter here.  Unfortunately, what we really need to know is what is the service that they are willing to pay for?  What do they "know" they are getting, and why is it worth it?

Why does the free to play model not offer this?

I think this is the "meat" of the issue - what is the pay-to-play version offering that the free-to-play version is not offering?

Oh, and no, I do not own a smartphone.  I have a pay-card $2 handy.  It does everything it is supposed to do, has reception where the smartphones do not (even from the same subscriber, it is really funny to see the looks on smarphone owner's faces when I have reception and they do not), and is nice and small.

Since I do not make many calls, or write many SMSs (and no, I do not have a Facebook profile, either), the only reason that I might wish to own a smartphone is for the internet access.  If it was covered in my home internet flat costs, I might consider it, but the extra costs for a smartphone just do not warrant having one (for me personally).
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_SuperFly_2000]

               Slightly off topic here (not that it matters in this thread anymore) but just buy a slightly more expensive handy phone hehe. Mine has internet and photo camera too :-)
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Frith5]

               Indeed, I am loath to say so, but it seems if the only point or reason for adding a post is to call someone a troll and tell them to basically shut up, well, that sort of seems trollish itself. '>
Look, it has gone on a long time, with no progress on either side. Some arguments cannot be 'won', and some people are not willing to back down even a skoshe. In those times, I feel it is better to focus my energy elsewhere, however much a new post rankles. Of course, that's just me. I really hate to see even a shadow of a sliver of close-mindedness or elitism on the part of my beloved NWN Community, though.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lazarus Magni]

               It's true WS, you don't have to pay for hosting. Although hosting yourself isn't really free. I would be curious to know what percentage of PWs over the last 10 years have used hosting services, vs hosted on their own. I would bet at best 50% of servers have been home hosted, but considering all the servers that have ever been in existance over the last 10 years, I would be it's closer to 10%. I mean real dedicated servers (static IP, and all that, not just firing up nwnx and running a co-op game with your friends.)

Speaking of services people are willing to pay for... I am not a super IT person, so yes this is a service I am willing to pay for.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lazarus Magni, 26 août 2012 - 06:33 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_SuperFly_2000]

               What has the price of the hosting to do with this? Maybe I can remotely understand it...because you mean that hosting a PW does have a cost...a monthly cost or whatever...

...but yeah...like I said many times I do consider NWN PW's to be some kind mini-MMO's in their own right...so a bigger one (similar to NWN) really isn't far away...but yet so far away it is....

Still, the business model of something, doesn't necessarily explain what it is....
               
               

               

                     Modifié par SuperFly_2000, 26 août 2012 - 07:02 .