Charm Spells

[Legacy_henesua]

               I've given Charm spells some oomf today. But perhaps too much. I want to hear some nay saying with reasoning to back it up.

• I changed all charm spells vocal only so that bards can wear armor while casting these spells.
• I upped the durations dramatically. Charm Person/Charm Animal last 1 turn per level. Charm Monster and Mass Charm last 1 hour per level.
• I tweaked the race lists: persons: Elf, Dwarf, Human, 1/2O, 1/2E,1/2ing, Gnome, Orc (animorphic humanoids in my setting), Goblin, Fey, Giant  (I removed two race categories, and added two races) animals: shapechangers (lycanthropes only in my setting), animal, beast

I figure the biggest complaint will be in regards to the longer durations given how that would create some problems for players and am very interested in hearing thoughts on this.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               Well bard's spellcasting has its own rules in DnD. They can cast spells without arane failure in light armor (then there is feat the improves this to the medium armor even). Bards cannot silence spells (voice-based) neither they can apply quicken metamagic (neither sorcerrer should cos the way they (dont) prepare their spells.

Now wouldnt be better to implement this rather? not so hard actually, Ive done it and can give you the OnEquip code for this.

duration of charm person is hour/lvl by rules, what the purpose of changing that anyway? Never considered them to be too short or whatever.

as for race list: thats very dependant on the module and changing this to suit your environment makes sense.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_henesua]

               Regarding duration I am increasing the duration from rounds per level to turns per level.

Hours in my module are severe. I make each hour, 20 real life minutes. Spells with hour/level durations in that set up become fairly powerful. So I am wary of making low level spells that potent.

Yes, d20 source material has charm person at 1 hour per level. but my concern is how this affects PCs. They would receive a disabling daze affect for an incredibly long time.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par henesua, 07 juillet 2012 - 11:22 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               well my point was that even with round/lvl, the durations seems to me long enough, why to increase it? Ive given pointer to the d20 source just for curiosity, not suggesting to use the hour actually.

Personally using 3rounds duration for every disable effects. Switch-option that I added into my communityy patch actually. Me and other DMs found it very balanced and player friendly in the action based PW .
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 07 juillet 2012 - 11:31 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_henesua]

               hmm... i consider round per level spells fairly weak, and figured thats why most folks ignore the charm spells.

Am I wrong in that assumption?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

henesua wrote...

hmm... i consider round per level spells fairly weak, and figured thats why most folks ignore the charm spells.

Am I wrong in that assumption?

No you are not. Charm spells are underpowered because the charm effect still lets target to walk and use potions. So player target can use potion of clarity/min blank to get free of that effect. The reason to use these spells would be in module where are common immunities to stun/paralyse so the similar effects wouldnt work. But thats not really common. In most modules these spells are overlooked indeed. Now you are correct that increasing the duration might give them some value. Maybe even increase DC if you want these spells to be usable.

(oh and btw we ve set up the 3round duration to only apply when monsters cast on player, in pvp or pvm duration is default)

In my understanding of DnD however, i dont think these spells are used for hostile actions. I think that in PnP you can use this spell to inject ideas to the target to push him to do something and he wont know you are behind. In NWN we cant do that actually, though I think this spell has some effect on friendly NPCs with store? Didnt looked into that function yet.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_henesua]

               I am expanding this spell to influence NPCs, and this will require more sophisticated conversation options as well as indicators for DMs that an NPC is currently charmed by a particular PC or NPC. This is based on what PRR does, but extends that functionality. I liked that PRR works with these spells, and enables an NPC to have a lower reputation of the caster if they realize what happened. I think I need to add some more code to fully implement this, but its the direction I am going with them.

And yes, with PRR at least (and my extensions) a charmed merchant provides better deals.

* PRR is vendalus' Personal Reputation and Reaction system.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par henesua, 07 juillet 2012 - 11:53 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               ok sounds good, now what about this idea:
daze, normal duration or turn/lvl for pcs
just the influence for hour/lvl for npcs (since reading the conversation, browsing the store can take time) - or make it as once per conversation and after it ends, the effect will disappear

just a though
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_henesua]

               I see so you are saying to do two separate durations depending on target.

I have partially done that. The reputation lasts for 1hour/level. Perhaps I could improve that for the higher level spells to match d20 with 1day/level for the influence on reputation.

I think I'd need to set a max adjustment allowed from charm. I should look at that. Thanks.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Elhanan]

               As to the OP, I like the changes listed from a PvE Player viewpoint. And it will grant some additional merit to selecting additional protection to Enchantments in the lower lvls.

However, such rules may create an atmosphere of abuse in PvP environs, so pls consider allowing more common counter-measures (eg; Potions of Prot vs Alignment) into the game, also.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_henesua]

               I'm thinking of adding a check for a situation where target and caster are both PC's. In this situation, the effect and duration on the target can be changed.

So what is the best way to do PVP charm?

How about the following:

• duration in rounds for confusion effect
• full duration for affected player to RP that they are charmed by other player (and help this with a few messages to the target and caster indicating when spell takes hold, and when it wears off, and perhaps reminders every minute or so to the target that they are charmed)

               
               

               

                     Modifié par henesua, 08 juillet 2012 - 02:13 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               charm and PvP, my thought is to make caster friendly to the target, so target wont be able to initiate any hostile actions while caster will be. Otherwise target will have free will so can run, cast defensive spells etc.

It would be quite usefull spell in RP evironment I think then.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_henesua]

               I didn't realize that you could switch the like/dislike setting on PCs.

That is a very good idea, ShaDoOoW. Thanks!