An idea to unite the fragmented community

[Legacy_SuperFly_2000]

               One of the biggest strengths of the game, how it creates communities, is at this late time also making it harder to keep it together.

It seems many communites are spread around and many more or less don't know that theese forum even exist

Was thinking to perhaps start a small project and trying to find most, if not all, "offside" communities and inform and perhaps make polls on what they know about the main NWN community and how active they are there.

I know many PW playes only read on that particular PW's forum and seem pretty uninterested in this forum...which is a shame I think.

It is not going to be any time soon (one month at least) but I am just throwing this out there in search of other ideas, additions, changes, feelings or help.

It is a shame that this forum is not better than it is...but it is what it is I guess....
               
               

               

                     Modifié par SuperFly_2000, 22 mars 2012 - 05:15 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               I applaud both your devotion and concern about the community "shrinkage", Superfly.  That attitude is what has held the knowledge base and enthusiasm for the game together as long as it has. 

However, as much as it hurts myself personally to admit it, the reality is that once Bioware dismissed the legacy boards, especially in the way they went about it (in a highly unprofessional and consumer-unfriendly manner IMO), the fragmentation was a predictable and unrecoverable by-product.  Many/most of the staunchest contributors just plain quit and others decided to limit their NWN interests to a subcommunity on their favorite PW forum.  IMHO any hope of re-establishing the former enthusiasm with the "departed" was crushed completely when the so-called hak attack action occurred. 

It's just a single opinion, but I think there are more potentially innovative and labor-effective endeavors than attempting to broadcast pleas to deaf ears.  I know I have made some attempts to do just this via personal emails just before I decided to join the BSN and for a few months thereafter but that effort was ill-received.  Most felt that their contributions to the former community, which had taken years and years to compile, were not coveted enough by Bioware to warrant any further investment.... an opinion that I can easily relate to... and decided to focus their efforts in a different, more careful direction.

Now, with all that stated, should anyone devise a method to conteract the mistreatment of our former comrades (Bioware are you listening??), I would be pleased to chip in my fair portion towards the effort to attract them.

Note: Should this opinion be pulled because it does not comply with the most recent edict of board conduct... well, it would not surprise me.

In any case, thanks for the idea, Superfly.  Just like global warming, we must believe that it is never too late to become proactive about something we care about, so carry on the torch, amigo! '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_henesua]

               What brings people to the NWN community is great content. What has slowed down is the creation of new modules that use all the beautiful new artwork that is being pumped out.

If you want to build up the community make some new modules that use newer HAKs and script sets. Then put these out there for download.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               NWN community was always fragmented. Its logical from the possibilities the builders and players have. While other games has only one singleplayer campaign (BGII, Gothic) there are not many ways how to alter the game so agreement of projects like community patch is easier. The same project on NWN1 failed,why? Because most PW admins said  "we dont care, we can fix the bug ourselves" and other builders like from CEP will not support it as they consider this project as a threat. There is too much content and too much ways how to use it. There are peoples who doesn't like CEP, peoples who doesn't like Project Q and peoples who doesn't like Community Patch and everyone thinks his approach is best. While in games like Gothic 3, community patch were even supported from game developers, neither players supported similar project for NWN.

Worst is that players don't care. The development of all these "community" packs is solely driven by the one or few peoples who started that project and nobody cares about how is such project shaped. So we ended with a community expansion pack 2.4 which is so big that it causes many issues like slow game loading, DM client crash, missing blueprints in toolset. We ended with Project Q with so many polygons that game crashes when such monster is spawned, we ended with Worm's tilesets that takes more than minute to load empty 16x16 area and community patch that every single expert out there would do differently. Because noone cares, there is ne feedback from users (does they yet exists?) or this feedback is ignored by the project admins who has god's complex.

PWs doesn't collaborate with each others, instead of many PWs out there had fragmented when two admins disagreed and there is only evil from this (DeX -> HoW, etc).

Its sad but its logical due to the unlimited custom content that can be done in NWN. Other older games that have only single player have this easier, Jagged Alliance 2 (developers gave community source code), Gothic 3, BG II etc.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 22 mars 2012 - 08:05 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_WhiZard]

               

ShaDoOoW wrote...

NWN community was always fragmented. Its logical from the possibilities the builders and players have. While other games has only one singleplayer campaign (BGII, Gothic) there are not many ways how to alter the game so agreement of projects like community patch is easier. The same project on NWN1 failed,why? Because most PW admins said  "we dont care, we can fix the bug ourselves" and other builders like from CEP will not support it as they consider this project as a threat. There is too much content and too much ways how to use it. There are peoples who doesn't like CEP, peoples who doesn't like Project Q and peoples who doesn't like Community Patch and everyone thinks his approach is best. While in games like Gothic 3, community patch were even supported from game developers, neither players supported similar project for NWN.

You neglected to mention PRC and EMS, which bring another spot of disagreement: should NWN reflect 3.0 or 3.5 DnD?  Many saw 3.5 as the ultimate 3rd edition with bugs fixed; others see 3.0 as completely different to 3.5.  But the main proponents of each side didn't want to look in depth into the other side; this caused stilted phrases like "BioWare crap" to quote the EMS for things that were a part of the other edition.  But the worst part of it was that NWN was largely designed as an in between.  WoTC was developing 3.0 at the making of NWN but adopted a large amount of the successes where NWN strayed to be used in the 3.5.  NWN was not simply an implementation of the 3.0, it was also an experiment for how the 3.5 would be shaped.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_PlasmaJohn]

               

SuperFly_2000 wrote...

It seems many communites are spread around and many more or less don't know that theese forum even exist

Other than those attached to PW's what others exist? 

For people who don't build, script or create models what's the value-add of this site?  Development is long dead, so there's nothing new coming from Bioware.  I think by now most people realize that the Master Server and the keys that old site cached are pretty much gone for good.  What do these forums have over the NWN wiki and the Vault?

People have always drifted away as the next new shiny comes along, but there was a stream of new people trying it out.  That stream is running dry.  The only way to revitalize the NWN community is to bring new players in and that is a significant challenge.

I'm not trying to discourage your effort, just pointing out that you may need to manage your expectations.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par PlasmaJohn, 23 mars 2012 - 01:46 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_The Amethyst Dragon]

               

PlasmaJohn wrote...

For people who don't build, script or create models what's the value-add of this site?
...
What do these forums have over the NWN wiki and the Vault?

Just people still involved and willing and able to answer questions (and even work on requests).  The wiki and Vault are great, but if you want to interact with people, a forum is better.

It is sad that there aren't nearly as many NWN players as there used to be.  But some of us are still here! '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lightfoot8]

               In order to Boost the game new players are needed.  

Thinking back to when I started playing NWN,  I can remember thinking about trying multi-player.  It was Quite an experience.  It seemed like every server I tried to play game that dreaded "xxxx.tlk file missing" message.   To add to that not many of the servers even told you where you could find such file.   In My opinion, One of the best ways to increase player could would be to make more Hak free servers available to new players.   It would give more people the chance to become addicted to the game and after that addiction sets in, more willing to download Haks to play other servers.  

To me a good Idea would be if someone built a HakFree server that had a library of "How to join other servers" as an area in it.   It would still need some playability,  But its main goal would be to give New players information straight from game spy.   It could not hurt in a quest to not lose potential players.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               

Lightfoot8 wrote...
-- clip -- In My opinion, One of the best ways to increase player could would be to make more Hak free servers available to new players.   It would give more people the chance to become addicted to the game and after that addiction sets in, more willing to download Haks to play other servers.  
-- clip --

Excellent point! Grab the widest audience possible instead of just the game-savvy portion.  Many new players are challenged enough just installing the latest patch correctly.  Kudos, Lightfoot!
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MrZork]

               I noticed that someone experiencing the TLK issue that Lightfoot8 mentions won't see that issue directly addressed in the NWN PW subforum sticky here or in the "How To: Play Online" part of the Player info on the neverwinternights.info site. Maybe a more complete "How to enter a persistent world" walkthrough that addresses possible hiccups, both in the PW subforum here as a sticky and on the neverwinternights.info site would be useful? A list of HAK-free PWs on both sites might be useful as well.

One possible issue to advice on how to join a PW, however, is that a new PW player really ought to go to the home page or forum FAQ for any PW they plan to play on. For one thing, that's the best way to find out whether there are custom content requirements (some PWs recommend client-side HAKs, but they are optional) and server-side customizations ("Hoping to play a reciprocal damage mage? Then ignore us because we have nerfed those spells or their stackability..."). For another, things like the server standards for RP, appropriateness of out-of-character chatting, where PvP and pick-pocketing are allowed, etc. are things a player probably ought to know before charging into the nearest dungeon. Also (and related), it seems like PWs don't always have the same process for getting started. Some might be, "Log on, create a character, and talk to the bartender to get your first quest." But others provide a better experience if a new player finds a DM and gets a tour of the server features and rules. Some might require new PCs to visit a temple or guild first, etc.

Having a list of PWs that are "easy" for newbs to joins and not run into trouble on would be useful.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_SuperFly_2000]

               

HipMaestro wrote...
However, as much as it hurts myself personally to admit it, the reality is that once Bioware dismissed the legacy boards, especially in the way they went about it (in a highly unprofessional and consumer-unfriendly manner IMO), the fragmentation was a predictable and unrecoverable by-product. 

Actually that forum change played only a small but still noticable role I think.

Like someone else said the NWN community has always been fragmanted and to answer yet another ones question yes my intention here is mainly on the PW players who seem to be the most fragmented.

Also to answer why anyone not interested in building and or scripting should read this forum the answer is easy. There are MANY reasons. There could be game changing things that could be added to help you with your gaming and also for PW gamers the INVALUABLE ability to get information on new PW's or PW's interested in more players.

A great source for many PW players...instead of just quitting the game altogether when their favourite server closes down, they get bored or **shudders** play at more servers than one....
               
               

               

                     Modifié par SuperFly_2000, 25 mars 2012 - 08:26 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_PlasmaJohn]

               

SuperFly_2000 wrote...

Also to answer why anyone not interested in building and or scripting should read this forum the answer is easy. There are MANY reasons. There could be game changing things that could be added to help you with your gaming and also for PW gamers the INVALUABLE ability to get information on new PW's or PW's interested in more players.

Ok, I worded that poorly.  Yes, good reasons why players should, but what's going to make them want to?  Having to sign up for an EA account is disincentive enough for a lot of people.

These are questions I'm wrestling with myself since it looks like the world I'm associated with will need to engage in more active marketing.  FWIW, the thread you started in PW & Muliplayer is an excellent checklist to start from.  Keeping our thread there up to date is a priority but we need to go where we can attract new people to NWN.  Or, even more radical, consider a different platform.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy__Guile]

               I'd say if you want to reach the outer region of most of the players who wouldn't come to these forums, then make a good Single Player module and BE SURE to put a big fat sign that they would be required to read to ask them to help support the NWN community by joining the Bioware Social Forums...  

You might want to tell them that their feedback is important to builders, as we make modules based upon player's desires, but if we don't hear from you, then we cannot provide the content and quality that you desire...

Just an idea I guess... 


Definitely an inniative would need to be taken to pump some new life into this game, maybe we could bring back old players IF we could make another downloadable premium module that was free...

I think if the community of builders left in NWN would come together to do this, then it might spark some old interest, but it would require marketing this New Free Premium Module... what do you think?
               
               

               

                     Modifié par _Guile, 31 mars 2012 - 03:12 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               The advent in graphics technology and the newer OS constraints that have steered many potential NWN "customers" from casually sampling the game to determine if it is their cup 'o tea... is major factor.  This influence was beginning to raise its ugly head way back when Vista was introduced and we all battle through it the best we could.

What the remaining NWN community needs is a hands-down, no-doubt-about-it, technical guru resource based on empirical fact rather than a list of  potential fixes that all these prospective NWNers can consult to solve their myriad of problems trying to adapt a 10-year old game to run under many different configurations.  The BSN Technical forum here is lame for the most part.  As much as the most devoted of the community members attempt to suggest, diagnose and resolve these kinds of issues, as a whole, it is ineffective (or perhaps "inefficient" would be a more pragmatic phrasing).  Just check all the unresolved topics in that forum and you will quickly recognize what I mean.  How many of those members just gave up?  Dunno.  How many other equally-frustrated lurkers are perusing the "knowledge base" for answers who never post a topic? No clue here.

I, myself, rue the day that I am forced off my own reliable, no-screwing-around-needed rig to venture into the world of incompatibility with a game I and my entire family enjoy so much.  Many of us just don't have the time or expertise to exhaust all the permutations to get the game to run in the NewTech world.  For those of you who had the good fortune to just install the game as normal, patched and enhanced it the way you like, successfully the first time on a new machine... count your blessings.  There are scores of folks who are still struggling to accomplish that seemingly easy task (or, at least, it SHOULD be easy, eh?).   One sure way to induct this genre of gamers is to make it easy to install and play the game.

I'm not inferring this is an easy task, just a necessary one for any project seeking to grow in popularity and size rather than try to scrape together the remnants of a bygone membership.

But, if the OP (i.e. topic) had intended to take it for granted that the "community" per se, was only those individuals who had NWN installed on their machines and were simply playing and chatting where they chose and when they chose, unconcerned about the robustness of the global NWN community...  well, then, in that case... ignore this non sequitur reply altogether, please.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy__Guile]

               Truth of the matter is, it would be better if they just built NWN 3, instead of "Neverwinter", I think WOTC really made a huge error not going with NWN 3, who cares if Atari holds the rights to the game, at least make a quality edition of it, you could call it another name, after all Hasbro / TSR will always hold the rights to the D20 system & forgotten realms..  

I don't get Atari, why horde a once extremely popular game of the year title for yourselves?  It's clear to me they just wanted to make a bunch of money on a poorly made NWN 2 without putting out the cash they did for NWN 1...  I blame Atari for ruining the NWN Game series...

I wish that company would just die already...

I think Bioware blows Atari away, if WOTC would have brought D&D back to Bioware, they would have made a killing, just like before.  Instead they opt for crummy browser games...  



Of course the game needs a refresh, even my hardware is struggling to run this oh OLD game, the problem is, is getting Bioware to recode the game to give us that refresh, that's NEVER going to happen.. '>

I just don't get why they abandoned this great game, they should have opted to do refreshes, like WOW does, with new add ons, like SOU / HOU, but no, they were just too cheap to think that we didn't love this game, I would have bought EVERY expansion pack they did, without question, even if it cost $100, no doubt..
(Provided they updated the core game to for newer hardware / OS / & driver support)
               
               

               

                     Modifié par _Guile, 01 avril 2012 - 03:06 .