Author Topic: the path of an arrow - or what's the most efficient arcane archer build  (Read 487 times)

Legacy_Shadooow

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the path of an arrow - or what's the most efficient arcane archer build
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2012, 08:11:07 pm »


               

Balduvard wrote...

Dexterity is more useful than wisdom for my purposes, in addition to having to burn another feat to hit a target when I innately have the ability to hit that target without the feat, if I just invest in dexterity. If you're not using the monk unarmed combat feats (or not having enough levels to gain them), wisdom doesn't gain you much over dexterity, except for will saves.

Wisdom also grants high spot/listen skills which is essential in PvP environment. But of course you play PvM.':wizard:'
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Empyre65

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the path of an arrow - or what's the most efficient arcane archer build
« Reply #31 on: February 01, 2012, 07:43:09 am »


               In that case, you might like this build better. Epic Weapon Spec gives +6 damage all the time (but not until level 21).

Archery Specialist (Fighter 10 / Wizard 3 / Arcane Archer 27)
Elf, Any Alignment
Playable 1 - 40, PvM

Abilities:
STR: 14
DEX: 18 (36)
CON: 12
WIS: 10
INT: 14
CHA: 8

Leveling Guide:
Elf: (Hardiness vs. Enchantments, Keen Sense, Low-light Vision, Skill Affinity: Listen, Skill Affinity: Search, Skill Affinity: Spot, Sleeplessness)
01: Fighter(1): Toughness, Point Blank Shot
02: Fighter(2): Weapon Focus: Longbow
03: Fighter(3): Rapid Shot
04: Fighter(4): DEX+1, Weapon Specialization: Longbow, (DEX=19)
05: Fighter(5)
06: Fighter(6): Blind Fight, Called Shot
07: Fighter(7)
08: Fighter(8): DEX+1, Dodge, (DEX=20)
09: Fighter(9): Mobility
10: Wizard(1): {Scribe Scroll}
11: Arcane Archer(1)
12: Arcane Archer(2): DEX+1, Spring Attack, (DEX=21)
13: Arcane Archer(3)
14: Arcane Archer(4)
15: Arcane Archer(5): Improved Critical: Longbow
16: Arcane Archer(6): DEX+1, (DEX=22)
17: Arcane Archer(7)
18: Arcane Archer(8): Iron Will
19: Arcane Archer(9)
20: Arcane Archer(10): DEX+1, (DEX=23)
21: Fighter(10): Epic Weapon Focus: Longbow, Epic Weapon Specialization: Longbow
22: Arcane Archer(11)
23: Arcane Archer(12)
24: Arcane Archer(13): DEX+1, Armor Skin, (DEX=24)
25: Wizard(2)
26: Arcane Archer(14): Epic Prowess
27: Arcane Archer(15): Great Dexterity I, (DEX=25)
28: Arcane Archer(16): DEX+1, (DEX=26)
29: Arcane Archer(17)
30: Arcane Archer(18): Great Dexterity II, Great Dexterity III, (DEX=28)
31: Arcane Archer(19)
32: Arcane Archer(20): DEX+1, (DEX=29)
33: Arcane Archer(21): Great Dexterity IV, (DEX=30)
34: Arcane Archer(22): Great Dexterity V, (DEX=31)
35: Arcane Archer(23)
36: Arcane Archer(24): DEX+1, Great Dexterity VI, (DEX=33)
37: Arcane Archer(25)
38: Arcane Archer(26): Great Dexterity VII, (DEX=34)
39: Arcane Archer(27): Great Dexterity VIII, (DEX=35)
40: Wizard(3): DEX+1, (DEX=36)

Stats:
Hitpoints: 408
Skillpoints: 226
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 24/20/33
Saving Throw bonuses: Spells: +9, Mind Effects: +2
BAB: 29
AB (max, naked): 32 (melee), 60 (ranged)
AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 29/32
Spell Casting: Wizard(2)
Alignment Changes: 0

Skills:
Discipline 24(26), Heal 43(43), Listen 42(44), Lore 34(36), Spellcraft 43(45), Tumble 20(33)

01: Discipline(4), Lore(4), Tumble(2), Save(4)
02: Discipline(1), Lore(1), Save(6)
03: Discipline(1), Lore(1), Tumble(1), Save(6)
04: Discipline(1), Lore(1), Save(8)
05: Discipline(1), Lore(1), Tumble(1), Save(8)
06: Discipline(1), Save(11)
07: Discipline(1), Tumble(1), Save(12)
08: Discipline(1), Save(15)
09: Discipline(1), Save(18)
10: Spellcraft(13), Save(9)
11: Heal(1), Listen(14)
12: Heal(5), Listen(1)
13: Heal(5), Listen(1)
14: Heal(5), Listen(1)
15: Heal(2), Listen(1), Tumble(1), Save(1)
16: Heal(1), Listen(1), Tumble(2), Save(1)
17: Heal(1), Listen(1), Tumble(2), Save(1)
18: Heal(1), Listen(1), Save(5)
19: Heal(1), Listen(1), Tumble(1), Save(7)
20: Heal(1), Listen(1), Save(11)
21: Discipline(12), Heal(1), Save(2)
22: Heal(1), Listen(2), Save(5)
23: Heal(1), Listen(1), Save(9)
24: Heal(1), Listen(1), Save(13)
25: Heal(1), Spellcraft(15), Save(1)
26: Heal(1), Listen(2), Tumble(2)
27: Heal(1), Listen(1), Tumble(2)
28: Heal(1), Listen(1), Lore(4)
29: Heal(1), Listen(1), Lore(4)
30: Heal(1), Listen(1), Lore(4)
31: Heal(1), Listen(1), Lore(4)
32: Heal(1), Listen(1), Lore(4)
33: Heal(1), Listen(1), Lore(4)
34: Heal(1), Listen(1), Lore(2), Tumble(1)
35: Heal(1), Listen(1), Tumble(2)
36: Heal(1), Listen(1), Tumble(1), Save(2)
37: Heal(1), Listen(1), Tumble(1), Save(4)
38: Heal(1), Listen(1), Save(8)
39: Heal(1), Listen(1), Save(12)
40: Heal(1), Spellcraft(15)
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Shadooow

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the path of an arrow - or what's the most efficient arcane archer build
« Reply #32 on: February 01, 2012, 08:07:45 am »


               Yeah fighter is also my choice, but for a pure AA as HipMaestro pointed bard is way better.

Bard gives +2reflexes, tumble skill, UMD skill, and with 9 ranks in perform +1ab+2dmg +1will +1fort with bard song, duration is short but at lvl 40 where you can get 6aprs with rapid it matter.

Also I was building AA like this and I decided not to max dexterity, in the lvl 40 PvM environment, 65was more than enough so I took dev crit with 25str. While dev crit is rather useless in SP (OC) environment, replace few ability points by STR cannot hurt especially if there are mighty bows.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 01 février 2012 - 08:08 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_HipMaestro

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the path of an arrow - or what's the most efficient arcane archer build
« Reply #33 on: February 01, 2012, 01:27:41 pm »


               The divine version is still my own preferred AA.  DP adds a better extra attack than otherwise obtainable and with the divine & magical damage boosts there are always damage components that cannot be resisted or ignored by immunities.  There are also a nice repertoire of enemy-control spells available as well, like WoF, just to cite one.  Typically, I'll leave the cleric portion at 15 dispellable levels to max the boosts but have used as high as 24 in an effective build.  An AA wandering around in GS is very hard to target with anything but AoE.

As just mentioned '^_^', those lofty AB levels seldom come into play. Damage & crits are more important IMHO.  Scribe Scroll comes in handy just in case a scouting AA notices a mage with EW up and needs to delay attack for 4 turns max.  A stack of GS works wonders when that happens.  '<img'>

The only downside is that unless one sacrifices some cleric power early on, it develops too late to be of best use in mini-campaigns like the OC.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par HipMaestro, 01 février 2012 - 01:33 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Adyana Fenn

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the path of an arrow - or what's the most efficient arcane archer build
« Reply #34 on: February 01, 2012, 05:16:39 pm »


               Empyre65: interesting, altough very similar to my bowbarian build '<img'> it's a matter of preference i guess, to get epic weapon spec for +6 damage later or higher strength together with rage for earlier (and temporary) +5 bonus from mighty (agreed, with epic weapon spec and mighty you'll get +8 overall). for now i'm sticking to barbarian, have to check if i'll manage to bypass weak will saves with some equipment, if that will fail, i may drop this route altogether.

ShaDoOoW: +1AB is nothing compared to taking levels with medium BAB. the loss is not worth it. pure AA should have as many attacks per round as possible to be useful, because it's all about finishing off enemies before they'll get to you - that's what using ranged weapons is all about, imho. i may be wrong though, i'm recently against playing casters because of the overwhelming amount of spells and at the same time, not many spells without save throws - and that's after playing all OCs with pure sorcerer. my opinion is obviously biased then, but still, i think BAB is one of the most important things for pure archer.

a little bit offtopic perhaps, but any ideas about strong (at earlier levels) build with high saves, mostly reflex and will, but at the same time, not being a caster? and not only AA. one thing that comes to my mind is some 7lvl fighter/7lvl weapon master/Xlvl champion of torm - CoT can even take epic weapon spec later, and playing it as an elf using rapier, with weapon finesse and focus on dexterity, may end up with pretty decent build at higher levels - but CoT would make up weak will saves pretty late (at the end of hotu), and one would have to spread out stat points (int 13 for weapon master, dex - same, but dex would be important anyway, cha - needed for divine wrath - 16 minimum imho - and that's still very weak - that doesn't leave too much for str). i know - CoT and paladin, but i somehow hate paladins - blame Aribeth '<img'> monk-based AA? 1wiz/12monk/the rest AA - again, low BAB, but at least saves would be nice, and zen archery would get useful. not my cup of tea though.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_HipMaestro

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the path of an arrow - or what's the most efficient arcane archer build
« Reply #35 on: February 01, 2012, 07:36:47 pm »


               Here's a serviceable test of any proposed AA build (or any 'ol build, for that matter):  Kill those 3 Guardian Golems in the Creator Race Ruins of Chapter 3 without introducing the designed "cheat", one of the few decent combat challenges that the OC offers.  Once you can, it's a build worth noting.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_WebShaman

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the path of an arrow - or what's the most efficient arcane archer build
« Reply #36 on: February 02, 2012, 01:24:24 am »


               

scouting AA notices a mage with EW up and needs to delay attack for 4 turns max.  A stack of GS works wonders when that happens


Which get blown off very easy from Mords, etc (not to mention what else is being stripped, reducing your protections even further '<img'> )  I do not think you will be delaying any attack for 4 turns here.

At least, you shouldn't be, if the Mage player knows his stuff.  Wizards get Scribe for free - that is a LOT of IGMS, etc.  And such cannot be disrupted from damage...what are you doing against counterspell?  I assume you are going to be healing, right?  Otherwise, you are not going to be able to withstand many IGMSs...or have you scribed a lot of Heals as well?

What do you do to "stop" the Bigby's?  I assume this is going to be your Achilles Heel, right?  Because if you get stopped by one, game over.

Well, scroll use does tend to take "longer" to cast as a hasted Mage spellcasting.  So...

It is an interesting excercise, but I think that if the Wizard player is on his toes, and knows his stuff, he just has a better chance here.

Now, against a Lich...bleh.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Empyre65

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the path of an arrow - or what's the most efficient arcane archer build
« Reply #37 on: February 02, 2012, 01:50:06 pm »


               How about a Monk 25 / Sorcerer 1 / RDD 14, dual-wielding Kamas? He can get Dev. Crit. as early as level 24, and end with the following stats:

Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 26/27/22
Saving Throw bonuses: Spells: +8, Mind Effects: +2
Spell Resistance: 37 (cannot be lowered)
BAB: 24
AB (max, naked): 41 (melee), 28 (ranged)
AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 34/34

I made 2 versions: a general-purpose version, and one optimized for the Sands of Fate series (most of the difference is skills), which I highly recommend to take your post-HotU character all the way to level 40. I can post either version here.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_henesua

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the path of an arrow - or what's the most efficient arcane archer build
« Reply #38 on: February 02, 2012, 02:02:32 pm »


               Empyre... Wouldn't that be a rather inefficient Arcane Archer build since it lacks Arcane Archer levels? '<img'>
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Empyre65

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the path of an arrow - or what's the most efficient arcane archer build
« Reply #39 on: February 02, 2012, 05:23:26 pm »


               

Adyana Fenn wrote...

a little bit offtopic perhaps, but any ideas about strong (at earlier levels) build with high saves, mostly reflex and will, but at the same time, not being a caster? and not only AA. one thing that comes to my mind is some 7lvl fighter/7lvl weapon master/Xlvl champion of torm - CoT can even take epic weapon spec later, and playing it as an elf using rapier, with weapon finesse and focus on dexterity, may end up with pretty decent build at higher levels - but CoT would make up weak will saves pretty late (at the end of hotu), and one would have to spread out stat points (int 13 for weapon master, dex - same, but dex would be important anyway, cha - needed for divine wrath - 16 minimum imho - and that's still very weak - that doesn't leave too much for str). i know - CoT and paladin, but i somehow hate paladins - blame Aribeth '<img'> monk-based AA? 1wiz/12monk/the rest AA - again, low BAB, but at least saves would be nice, and zen archery would get useful. not my cup of tea though.

I was answering this, from 3 posts above mine.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Adyana Fenn

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the path of an arrow - or what's the most efficient arcane archer build
« Reply #40 on: February 03, 2012, 04:19:19 am »


               i kinda prefer my current CoT build, which is a little bit weird. 6lvl rogue/5lvl harper scout/the rest CoT. base stats str 14/dex 16/cha 16, HS gives cat's grace and eagle's splendor amongst others, and saves are pretty nice even at lower levels. with weapon finesse and going all for dexterity, it's very balanced - lags a little bit with feats, but i'm susprised how much it can withstand, and with harper's buffs and divine wrath, it's a killing machine, especially with keen rapier and improved critical. very playable as well, bowbarian was killing me after some time because of saves.