Favorite Prestige classes and why

[Legacy_Vibrant Penumbra]

               Shadow Dancer is the closest prestige class to the Cape-dancer I play in PnP.

Failing that, I drop back to Assassin.

But I prefer the Shadow Dancer. '>
A lot! '>
Can't you tell by my name?
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Vibrant Penumbra, 28 janvier 2012 - 05:55 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               

WebShaman wrote...
I suppose it is very situation dependent, but seeing as the MM has access to spells that basically make the AA useless, all I can really say is that it sounds like you have not really fought against any really good Mages...

True, Web.  But that would assume any mage could win the initial Concentration check against a high-damage attack or remain in sanctuary forever.  Spells can be exhausted, arrows can't.  Though I did have a problem once with one of those Expeditious retreat/Mass Haste fellows once but the tangle traps worked (Find Traps nerfed there).  Dead = Really Bad, I guess, so then , no.... never faced any really good mages. '>  *plunks his line back into his favorite fishing hole*

@henesua: I'll second that notion about playing SD and relying on HiPS.  The better balanced servers that I've played have all nerfed/banned it.  Hence, it quickly loses most of  it's appeal except for those rare non-evil, no XP-penalty dump applications (Evasion & UD in 2 levels is handy at times).
               
               

               

                     Modifié par HipMaestro, 28 janvier 2012 - 06:24 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Balduvard]

               My favorites are biased by the modifications we've made. Shadowdancers are probably my second favorite prestige class now since we implemented Shadow Step as an innate swift action for legendary shadowdancers...it provides endless amounts of amusement to be able to jump around a battle striking at enemies and leaping back into the shadows of your allies when needed.

Arcane Archer takes the top spot for me though, again in part to some of our modifications--namely the set of bows that allow for damage type swaps on the fly, enabling a skilled AA to deftly target a specific enemy's weaknesses and put out massive amounts of damage in a party. That on top of the innate power of the class itself makes it an offensive powerhouse (and splashing in some monk levels can make it just as defensive).
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Elhanan]

               I chose the CoT simply because of ease of use; dislike PrC's generally, and prefer to utilize the base classes.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Rolo Kipp]

               <popping out...>

Although I've built just about every PrC (but not close to every combo!), I still prefer the roguish wizard I've always been ;-)

But I think we old-schoolers are pretty much the exception.

<...of the woodwork>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MrZork]

               I like AAs for party play and I have had great fun with a soloing PMs tank mages lately.

HipMaestro, I love my AA character, but PvP against an epic mage she would be toast. At least I know that any page with Epic Warding would basically start by casting EW (uninterruptable) and then basically turn the AA into a grease spot with Isaac's, perhaps using True seeing if the AA is too stealthy to see and/or Bigby's if the AA is trying to run off. I would love to be better at playing the AA, so I wonder if I am missing something with that?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_WebShaman]

               No, Mr.Zork, you are quite correct here - though the Divine part of his build is a problem (only item-specific immunities here).

And of course, there are other strategies that work wonders as well.  It really depends on how the MM and AA meet up, really.  He assumes he will be stealthed - so I assume that my MM will be under a Sanctuary.  So it all comes down to "noticing" the AA - assuming that (using the Assassin PrC here, and Ranger assuming that the PRC is not involved) Spot&Listen are high enough, I think that will be easy enough (combined with some TSing, and perhaps a bit of Amplify scroll from a helpful Bard...)

Then a nice Bigby should put the bugger down.  Or perhaps some nice BBoD with buffs (using the buff "cheat" to get it hasted, etc), remaining under the Sanctuary, etc.

He will roll a 1 eventually.

However, a lot really depends on the environment here - just what sort of items are allowed and present, blah blah blah.

As I said, I never lost once to an AA build.  Most trouble is with those blasted Liches...immunities up the yin-yang!  Only with the PRC present, however.  Then I usually go with some Arch-Mage, of course.  Arcane Fire FTW!!!!!
               
               

               

                     Modifié par WebShaman, 29 janvier 2012 - 09:36 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_henesua]

               Re: MM
I'm unclear on what this means. What does MM stand for? (I think I am starting to reveal my play style- I'm powergamer challenged)

Re: Bigby's Hands:
In my module I am reintroducing the Escape Artist skill which should enable some characters to have enough skill points to use the skill as a counter to Bigby's Grasping Hand. Maybe there is another spell you are thinking of... I never mastered all the ins and outs of Bigby's hands.

So while AA might not have a maxed out escape artist. Assassins, rogues, bards, shadowdancers, and monks have it as a class skill.

Have any of you seen this done before? And does it change the balance of power in an interesting way? Or does this end up creating a similar power dynamic, but for different classes.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par henesua, 29 janvier 2012 - 05:00 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

henesua wrote...

I've noticed much less interest in the Shadow Dancer in this thread than I expected. I remember this class being a favorite of many players for the hide in plain sight ability. Is this just not the right crowd?

In many action modules HIPS is available as bonus feats on many items, so there is really not much reasons to go SD.

henesua wrote...

Re: MM
I'm unclear on what this means.
What does MM stand for? (I think I am starting to reveal my play style-
I'm powergamer challenged)

Re: Bigby's Hands:
In my module I
am reintroducing the Escape Artist skill which should enable some
characters to have enough skill points to use the skill as a counter to
Bigby's Grasping Hand. Maybe there is another spell you are thinking
of... I never mastered all the ins and outs of Bigby's hands.

So
while AA might not have a maxed out escape artist. Assassins, rogues,
bards, shadowdancers, and monks have it as a class skill.

Have
any of you seen this done before? And does it change the balance of
power in an interesting way? Or does this end up creating a similar
power dynamic, but for different classes.

MM is Webshaman's word for spellsword IIRC.

very neat idea on escape artist, it would definitely balances things out as its dexers who are by default bigby overwhelmed
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_henesua]

               Is spellsword a style of play (what us old times played elves for?) or a PRC prestige class?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Elhanan]

               

henesua wrote...

Is spellsword a style of play (what us old times played elves for?) or a PRC prestige class?

MM is Melee Mage, and is unique to Webshaman for using a pure mage in his choice of design. Quite effective, though I prefer a few lvls of Rogue.

While it is not a true PrC, it goes to show that the pure classes can be outstanding by themselves.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_henesua]

               Oddly... I can't see page two. I keep receiving a BSN error message that I can't see that forum. -- and yet posting this comment now enables me to see page two.

Thanks for clearing that up, Elhanan.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par henesua, 29 janvier 2012 - 07:39 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_WebShaman]

               Yes, the MM (Melee Mage) is a pure Wizard build, that specializes in combat; The very idea in and of itself is anathema, which is probably why no-one thought of it before.  I mean, a Wizard in combat??!!  With 1/2 bab, etc?

Yup.

And it is pretty effective.

Kail and Co. then went on to expand on the MM (the so-called MMM, or multiclassed melee mage), creating even more effective versions of it (and my personal fav is Wizard/Ranger/Assassin).

Such delicious synergy!!!!!

Note that this is NOT a spellsword build.  A spellsword build utilizes fighter-type (1/1 bab) classes AND levels, or the Eldritch Knight PrC (only available through the PRC or in NWN2).  This results in a "watered down" Wizard, which I consider to be much weaker (though the Eldritch Knight build, with some Archmage sprinkled in, is a pretty powerful build, I must say!  However, if I am playing in a PRC environment, the Mystic Theurg is just toooo irresistable!!!  WizCoD FTW!!!!)
               
               

               

                     Modifié par WebShaman, 30 janvier 2012 - 11:33 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_WhiZard]

               

WebShaman wrote...

Yes, the MM (Melee Mage) is a pure Wizard build, that specializes in combat; The very idea in and of itself is anathema, which is probably why no-one thought of it before.  I mean, a Wizard in combat??!!  With 1/2 bab, etc?

You coined the term, but I remember my first play through the OC (before the expansion packs) was a pure wizard that used a two bladed sword in fighting.  For the OC the AC in general was low enough that the extra APR had significance, (that and I aesthetically looked similar to Daelan my henchman).  I just loved how fast my henchman and I could move into and clear out areas.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_WebShaman]

               Oh, I don't take any credit at all for equiping a wizard with a melee weapon.  I am perfectly sure that there are many out there who did so before I came along.

What I did, though, was to OPTIMIZE the build, so to say.  After much "playtesting" (mainly on PWs, as my MM was designed to cause PW Owners massive migraines, which it did, due to the effectiveness of it and the fact that it was "just" a Base class, very difficult to nerf without throwing the game totally out of whack), I eventually released my build to the public, for all to enjoy!

My build is perfect for solo play.  It is designed to be able to melee the m0bs, saving spells for use on the Boss.  This has always been a problem for Wizards, and most designers and builders "plan" areas centered around this concept (for Mages, anyway).  Restricted rest, too many m0bs to not have to use up spells, yadda yadda yadda.  By the time the Wizard gets to the Boss, he is out of spells necessary to deal with the Boss.

End effect, dead Wizard.

My build dealt with this issue soundly.

Now, what WAS funny, was all the different "attempts" to somehow account for this by many builders and designers, and the results of them IMHO.  I know some PWs basically just nerfed the Wizard into uselessness due to it (spells galore reduced to ineffectiveness, drastically shortened durations, pumped up m0bs, blah blah blah).  Some PWs went bananas with the Dispel Magic sort of strategy (and this brought about, I believe, the introduction of the MMM, iirc).

Perhaps not so funny for someone on a Staff, tearing their hair out in frustration, however.