Community Patch 1.70 final release

[Legacy_Kail Pendragon]

               

ShaDoOoW wrote...

The Krit just pointed out that some spells cannot be cast if a server doesnt use Patch. And he's right dammit. Not really nice from him when he knew that from start as it were his fixes that does this issue.

I will have to make a quickfix build as this goes against Patch objectives.

Thank you very much The Krit

And once more here comes Shadow showing off with pride what a moronic idiot he is! Congrats kiddo! Now try to grow up before playing with the adults; you know showing off some respect for those whose work you ripped off and who took some of their time to point out something you should have known just for your benefit. But alas, that's not gonna happen from you. You'll always be the idiot we know.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Kail Pendragon, 12 décembre 2011 - 08:10 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_henesua]

               Shadooow. I'm not clear how the multi-player spell casting fix is working. Do I need to include the 1.70 hak in my module's distribution?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

ShadowM wrote...

Great job. '> unlike Pstemarie I have a lot of script in my base, but I get it all to work with your patch eventually '>

Great on this is that merging scripts is not needed. You can install the Patch and leave it as it this. (Of course you won't get all changes/fixes from Patch without it, but merging scripts might be overkill anyway.)

henesua wrote...

Shadooow. I'm not clear how the multi-player spell casting fix is working. Do I need to include the 1.70 hak in my module's distribution?

Sorry I wasnt clearer. The fix for the issue is present in core Patch datas, you don't need to use hak. Re-download and re-install fixes this no other actions needed.

The changes that caused this issue were moved to the HAK version where they won't be an issue (as if server needs hak player have to have it so spells.2da will match).
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 12 décembre 2011 - 09:40 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_ShadowM]

               So it works with custom spell routing system, custom Ai (modified jaspere) ?  Sorry I misunderstood.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

ShadowM wrote...

So it works with custom spell routing system, custom Ai (modified jaspere) ?  Sorry I misunderstood.

Works with everything in the term that it doesn't break anything. You won't be able to override caster level via variable unless you use Patch's spell scripts (or its new spell engine), custom AI like jasperre will replace default one so you won't notice the Patch's AI improvements in there (but in case of Jasperre's AI recompiling all spells should make some AI changes to work - not sure which however).
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 12 décembre 2011 - 10:45 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Skildron]

               It does not work with the nwn Linux client - at least, not for me. NWN segfaults when I try running with the 1.70 CP installed. Not so much as an error message, so I cannot provide any insight what happens here. I suspect it to be some graphics issue or perhaps filename mix up since Linux file systems are case sensitive xp2_gui.erf and XP2_GUI.erf are different filenames that can exists next to each other in the same directory and hence confuse the software looking for a specific file name.

Greetings
Skildron
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Skildron]

               After ShaDoOoW reminded me that the xp2patch.key must match the data/xp2patch.bif file, I remembered that there is no such thing as a 1.69 german patch. Everybody had to use the english patch and change the dialog.tlk file back to german afterwards. So the xp2patch.bif file even if you have a german dialog.tlk and german voice sets is the one from the english language patch. So to have the files match, one has to use the english version with the german dialog.tlk and dialogf.tlk files for the community patch to work on german NWN installations that are patched up to 1.69.

Now, the patch works on my system, too.

Greetings
Skildron
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               Actually, I was pointed that there is german unofficial 1.69 patch. Not sure who or when released it, but german Patch 1.70 version uses this unofficial 1.69 patch as a base. Thats why it crashed on your system as you have english as a base with german dialog.tlk.

The same with poland version. For german and poland users its important to find out what is your "base version". Im not sure if there is different way but from what I found out xp2patch.bif in data folder has these sizes:
english 351mb
germany 366mb
poland 348mb

Then you have to choose Patch 1.70 of the same language version as you have installed. Of course if you had german dialog.tlk on english version you will probably want to download and replace Patch 1.70 dialog.tlk of your language (thats why they are there for separated download).

Hmm, hope I make it more clear
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 15 décembre 2011 - 11:44 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Tren of Twilight Tower]

               Thanks for putting this patch together, Shadooow.  It is good to see that some folks are still trying hard to make this game a better place for us all.  That being said, I wish if there was detailed list of changes, as otherwise I am on the fence if I want to download patch or not.

As for negative critics, obviously there is a history there.  Rather than spiting on each other perhaps it would be more helpful if we would witness joint effort, or at least more constructive feedback exchange - yes, that is especially targeted at you, Kail.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_SHOVA]

               The negative banter aside, If there is indeed content in the patch that the creator does not want used, then it shouldn't be used. The Vault tends to not allow that once it is pointed out, and for the most part, those of us that use CC, try and follow the Authors wishes, especially when it comes to repackaging and resubmitting. The backlash from using content that the author doesn't want used, is not worth it to the community. We end up seeing fights, name calling and general crap on the forums. In terms of the Kails work, I have found his stuff to be well worth using. I have seen his postings over the years, and for the most part, they are helpful. He is a member of our community, who may well have a valid grievance against the use of his work. If that grievance is not being addressed by ShaDo0oW, what course is left but to air it here. I am not saying ShaDo0oW ripped of Kail. I am saying that even the rumor of this kind of thing only lessens the likelihood for this project ever becoming commonly used. I personally do not like to read fights, and the like, on here. If however, Someone feels violated, especially in regards to their contributions of CC, then we should listen. We use their CC, We like their CC, and most of us do want more of the CC. When work is “stolen” it drives the CC creator to leave. That translates to no more CC from them. That is not in the best interests of us, the Community.

ShaDo0oW has put together a list of what is in, what changes when using it, and who authored what. I believe its on his web page for the patch.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

SHOVA wrote...

 If there is indeed content in the patch that the creator does not want used, then it shouldn't be used.

Afaik none of the content I used from other builders was restricted. I also tried in most cases contact original author and ask him if I can reuse his content. (But it is true I sometimes forget (AD emote icons) or I didn't asked because the content consisted of know-how and anyone could fix it once he knew what was broken (thats for example exactly the case of The Krit Craft Magic Fixes). In one case (Project Q two tileset fixes) I had not given answer if I may or not, so I actually re-created their fixes on my own as when they pointed out what was broken (texture) I could fix it on my own. But in all cases I credited original author.


Tren of Twilight Tower: at download page there is a TXT file with brief description of what is there. For NWN expert and builders there is more detailed description for download (1.70 documentation.zip) but that assume a certain level of knowledge as I didnt explained whats broken only how I fixed/changed it.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 15 décembre 2011 - 07:06 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_SHOVA]

               

ShaDoOoW wrote...
Afaik none of the content I used from other builders was restricted. I also tried in most cases contact original author and ask him if I can reuse his content. (But it is true I sometimes forget (AD emote icons) or I didn't asked because the content consisted of know-how and anyone could fix it once he knew what was broken (thats for example exactly the case of The Krit Craft Magic Fixes). In one case (Project Q two tileset fixes) I had not given answer if I may or not, so I actually re-created their fixes on my own as when they pointed out what was broken (texture) I could fix it on my own. But in all cases I credited original author.

This may start something, but it needs to be said. Just because CC doesn't have a "Do not recombine this with other CC, and do not resubmit it, fix it, or repackage it" does not give anyone the go ahead to do it. I commend you for trying to get authorization from the original CC author. However before you uploaded anything from them, you should have gotten the authorization, or refrained from using their work. If the CC was important enough to add, and authorization could not be obtained, You should have remade it, or found someone to remake it from scratch. that IMHO, is the only way to avoid authorship "problems" from happening.

Kail has made a accusation. If you used any of Kails work, you should probably remove it from your patch. If Kail is upset that others gave permision, thats on Kail. Certainly no one with a brain would support his claim, when you can prove authorization. You have however stated that you did not get permision from every CC author you repackaged content from, and that is, and does, make it suspect at what is in the patch, is it with the Creators blessing, or is it a rip off that is going to come back and bite later. 

If you do not agree with my opinion on this, I ask you, if I downloaded your patch, went in and changed a few lines of code, made an adjustment to the textures, and re-uploaded it as the community patch 1.73, would you be happy? Probably not. I am sure you would be yelling as loud as you could, especially if I forgot to get your authorization before hand. 
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

SHOVA wrote...

If you do not agree with my opinion on this, I ask you,

I don't agree, the issue is elsewhere.

I didn't added anything from Kail, and 95% of work I added from others can be easily recreated like already mentioned The Krits Craft Magic Fixes which is in fact a collection of twenty 2DA changes that takes about 5minutes of work. Even familiar/animal companions could be easily remade if I didn't get permission but in this case I get permission from Ben Harrison and BCH.

Also I couldn't wait for users whose are already gone from NWN like kurairyu to give me permission, they are simply gone and no longer cares about NWN as far as I know.

if I downloaded your patch, went in and changed a few lines of code,
made an adjustment to the textures, and re-uploaded it as the community
patch 1.73, would you be happy? Probably not. I am sure you would be
yelling as loud as you could, especially if I forgot to get your
authorization before hand.

Well I restricted my own content in Patch (scrolls, trap (item), projectile trap(projectile) blueprints, all spellscripts and other scripts etc.) from being resubmitted but IN FACT - my entire purpose ofcreating this wasn't to get famous of what, I just wanted to create a new standard that community will be happy to use like it would be official (community patches are actually quite common for legacy games). SO if this project fail to achieve this and someone else will take my work and he does achieve this goal with his own Patch or whatever I won't mind as long as he gives me credits.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 15 décembre 2011 - 10:07 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_SHOVA]

               Sorry, but easily recreated, does not translate to I can use it without permission. If indeed it is easily done, then you should have done it rather than opening yourself and project to accusations. Even if the original author has long gone. The fact that you restricted your own content shows you do have feelings on your work being used/resubmitted without your say so. What your intent was doesn't matter, if you did not obtain the original authors permission.

Kail accusations are confirmed from your own posts ShaDo0oW, you have repackaged content from others, without permission. I can not use your patch, or recommend it to others. I will also inform the vault that it contains others work who may not want it resubmitted, should you put it there for download. The reason is simple, Your name is the one that comes up with this project, not the Original authors, even though you added credits as a secondary DL. You can argue however much you wish, but you have admitted to using the work of others without their consent. Sure it may be a simple 2da edit, or a simple line change in a script, but next time, it might well be animations, or sounds, or models. Once you steal, even with giving credit, its all the easier to steal the next time. What message does that give to all the new players, builders and future CC makers ShaDo0oW? go ahead and make stuff so someone else can repost it? is that the Community you want to create for? it certainly isn't what I would be proud to be a part of.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_wyldhunt1]

               After reading all of this, I think I have to be on ShaDoOow's side on this one.
He says he never used anything of Kail's. He gives full credit for the contents. He tries to ask first unless it's something easily reproducible, and even then he gives credit.
Think of it this way:
Let's say I figure out a way to change a few 2da lines and fix a major bug.
I post that fix on the vault.
That fix is now public knowledge and everyone is going to change those 2da lines.
Does it really matter if ShaDoOow uses the fixed 2da in the download instead of copy/pasting those lines into an empty 2da to reproduce it?
It's the exact same thing. There is no artistic skill that may be lost or gained from the reproduction.
The reason the authors deserve credit (Which ShaDoOow gives them) is because they were the ones smart enough to figure it out.
Once that knowledge is public, it is not a matter of "Did you steal my 2da?" Everyone's 2da's will be the same because they all have the same knowledge. It is a matter of giving credit to the smart person who figured it out. Not the files themselves.
 
The exception would be model/texture/etc stuff where artistic talent can make the end result different when reproduced.
ShaDoOow has said that in those cases, he has reproduced them himself or gotten permission (With an exception he admits to and, I assume, must be worked out because AD isn't here complaining.)
               
               

               

                     Modifié par wyldhunt1, 15 décembre 2011 - 10:12 .