Defensive Casting

[Legacy_Scorpio Snake]

               After all these years of playing NWN I am finally giving the wizard class a real go. I have been surprised actually at how much fun and effective they can be. It seems there is a lot to the class though. One option is defensive casting. I don't think I fully get this. In this mode you don't provoke an attack of opportunity but you must pass a concentration check or lose the spell. Simple as that? Is this very useful?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Gregor Wyrmbane]

               

Scorpio Snake wrote...

... One option is defensive casting. I don't think I fully get this. In this mode you don't provoke an attack of opportunity but you must pass a concentration check or lose the spell. Simple as that? Is this very useful?

I don't play casters very often. In fact, only once since I've been playing NWN, and that's a cleric. However, I've found that Defensive Casting is very helpful IF you take the feat "Combat Casting". Here's where you can read about both of those things.

http://nwn.wikia.com...fensive_casting

http://nwn.wikia.com.../Combat_casting

Hope that helps.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Gregor Wyrmbane, 26 octobre 2011 - 02:50 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_jmlzemaggo]

               I've never used that. I've always thought it's when you don't want to control your own PC yourself, but by the game AI. Like any regular NPC.
Maybe I'm mistaking. It has happened before...
But if you're enjoying a wizard, wait untill you play the real stuff...
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lich Larloch]

               The real stuff?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               Yes its very usefull, with enough concentration you dont need combat casting feat and improved combat casting (ICC) at all as it has the same effect as ICC. That will gives you 2 more feats and there is plenty better options for caster.

However only one "combat mode" can be activated at once so you cant cast defensively under Improved Expertise. That is of course if the module you play allow to cast under Improved Expertise, quite commonly this is not allowed.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Gregor Wyrmbane]

               

ShaDoOoW wrote...

Yes its very usefull, with enough concentration you dont need combat casting feat and improved combat casting (ICC) at all as it has the same effect as ICC. That will gives you 2 more feats and there is plenty better options for caster.

However only one "combat mode" can be activated at once so you cant cast defensively under Improved Expertise. That is of course if the module you play allow to cast under Improved Expertise, quite commonly this is not allowed.

My cleric has both Combat Casting and Expertise/Improved Expertise, and I've found that Defensive Casting is much more effective when casting in the middle of a bunch of enemies. If you're in one of the "expertise" modes, all it takes is for one of those baddies to roll a 20 on his AoO, and you've lost your spell. Never lost a spell while casting in the middle of the fray while using defensive casting. I use the expertise modes for drinking potions and using healing kits in combat.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_WhiZard]

               

ShaDoOoW wrote...
However only one "combat mode" can be activated at once so you cant cast defensively under Improved Expertise. That is of course if the module you play allow to cast under Improved Expertise, quite commonly this is not allowed.

ICC allows automatic defensive casting under improved expertise  (as do the quicken meta-magic and auto-quicken feats).  And you can cast in improved expertise even when it is flagged to prevent this, because the expertise mode is canceled after the period which could cause the spell to be interrupted and can be reactivated almost immediately when the spell would take the full round.

The beauty of ICC is that there is no need for the defensive casting mode.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par WhiZard, 26 octobre 2011 - 06:41 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_jmlzemaggo]

               

Lich Larloch wrote...

The real stuff?

Sorcere(r-ess). '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

WhiZard wrote...

The beauty of ICC is that there is no need for the defensive casting mode.

And viceversa '>.

Given every caster need concentration skill and defensive casting is later auto-success, you will spare one pre-epic and one epic feat which may be very advantageous. (example: melee cleric that want to cast Heal to his companion in front line)
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_WhiZard]

               

ShaDoOoW wrote...

WhiZard wrote...

The beauty of ICC is that there is no need for the defensive casting mode.

And viceversa '>.

Given every caster need concentration skill and defensive casting is later auto-success, you will spare one pre-epic and one epic feat which may be very advantageous. (example: melee cleric that want to cast Heal to his companion in front line)

4 feats for 10 AC (applying to touch attacks and normal attacks even when flatfooted) doesn't seem like a waste, especially when compared to the armor skin feat which is +2 for one epic feat.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par WhiZard, 26 octobre 2011 - 08:30 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               Exactly, so what if you dont need +10 AC or mainly -10AB ? Or you just dont want to re-use IE after you cast every spell in the stop IE cast environment (which isnt immediate after you cast spell if you are hasted), or what if the module is scripted well and cancel IE immediately when spell is cast not after is casted?
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 26 octobre 2011 - 08:55 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_WhiZard]

               

ShaDoOoW wrote...

Exactly, so what if you dont need +10 AC

If you can force 20s without expertise, I don't see what feats are so critical to take that you don't have room for ICC.

or mainly -10AB ?

You can cancel the mode at any time.

Or you just dont want to re-use IE after you cast every spell in the stop IE cast environment (which isnt immediate after you cast spell if you are hasted),

Meleers that spam knockdown use as much effort as reactivating IE.  Furthermore, when hasted you cast in less time allowing you to cast move and then cast again within a single round.  There is less of an issue of being surrounded while casting when hasted.

or what if the module is scripted well and cancel IE immediately when spell is cast not after is casted?

3rd party utility (like NwNX) you mean.  Well servers can persue that rout. They could also write a script so that if you are caught casting in IE you automatically die, or they could write a script that if you took more than 25 ranks in concentration you are automatically banned.  So many things are possible without having to use third party methods.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               Not sure what are you trying to prove here. What I said is that there are cases where defensive casting is useable and ICC needless. I didnt said its better for everyone or all the time. So do you agree with this statement or not? If you do then you can stop this crap.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_WhiZard]

               

ShaDoOoW wrote...

Yes its very usefull, with enough concentration you dont need combat casting feat and improved combat casting (ICC) at all as it has the same effect as ICC.

This statement gave me the opposite impression, that you were trying to prove ICC to be worthless and equating two feats to a single skill investment.  But, if you mean that each has their use, I can agree to that.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Kail Pendragon]

               

ShaDoOoW wrote...

Yes its very usefull, with enough concentration you dont need combat casting feat and improved combat casting (ICC) at all as it has the same effect as ICC. That will gives you 2 more feats and there is plenty better options for caster.

Baseless blanket statement.