Skill Checks vs. Ability Checks

[Legacy_jackkel dragon]

               I'm considering coming back to NWN modding, and I just wanted to weigh in with NWN players on what is preferable for non-combat tests such as skill checks. On the one hand, I always feel that most of the skill points I spend in NWN feel worthless unless the skill has a combat/gameplay benefit, like Tumble or Discipline. On the other hand, I greatly dislike the D+D 3E skill point system in general and would rather avoid categorizing each action into such specific categories.

Basically, I have three ideas of how skill checks could be used that I've been thinking about and I wonder which one you'd prefer, given the choice:

1 - 3E Skill Checks: Keep the current system of using skill checks modified by skill rank for non-combat applications. For example, using ranks in Bluff to get away with a lie. This gives the skill points in each skill value, but is difficult to balance so that no one skill is more valueable than another.

2 - Ability Checks: Categorize actions into the six ability types and using only an ability modifer (possibly with bonus based on character level) for a non-combat check. For example, a 4th level character might gain a 4 + Charisma modifier in a check to get away with a lie. This is easier to set up, but risks being too simple and allowing too many classes to excel at certain checks.

3 - Base Skill Bonus: Similar to #2, but each class has a specific progression in skill bonuses similar to base attack bonus. For example, a rogue might have gain an increase to skill checks every level while a fighter gains a bonus only every other level. This is slightly harder to set up than #2, but allows skill-focused classes to feel more effective at non-combat situations.

Personally, I feel partial to #3 because it turns non-combat skills into checks that resemble attack rolls (and are thus easier to track) while keeping the distinction between combat and skill classes.

P.S: No matter which one I ultimately decide to work with, skill points are a part of the NWN system and will be used for their combat and base gameplay applications.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Rolo Kipp]

               <leans close...>

The system I am working on, like so many of the Gemworld systems (sadly, only Amethyst now), is to overlay a skill engine over the NwN engine.  Specifically, I will be adding new skills (as many others have successfully done :-), but I will also be storing both a skill-bonus and skill-mass to each skill. What do these do? Hmmm, it's a bit of a secret, but part of it is to track how often a skill is used. Skills that are used often gain mass (logarithmic, not additive). The higher the mass, the harder to improve bonus (I simply *adore* soft limits). A rogue that picks a lot of locks will be better. Someone who chooses the "Persuade" option in conversation often, will be very persuasive.

In this way, Amethyst will reward the player for the skills he uses, but the core system is untouched, allowing the character to be used elsewhere. This was one of the inter-Gemworld systems we discussed a long time ago to allow Worldwalker characters to migrate between our many worlds.

As for the utility of skills in general, how useful they are depends a lot on how much attention the designer pays to them when creating his mod.  Only a few mods outside the OC really use the diplomacy skills, IMO. And I haven't really used mounted-*anything*, personally <despite howling for it in alpha...:->

So, to cut to the chase, I like #3-A =)

<...and whispers>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Elhanan]

               From my PnP background, and as a Player, I would not mind seing a mix of both. If an event appears that is fairly easy to identify as using a Skill check, then this could be done. If something is debatable, or if another approach to the event could be made, then choose the one that is deemed best.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_WebShaman]

               I will offer my opinion on this :

I absolutely detest the "x point" investment system for rewards.

If you invest something, you should see a reward for it.  Starting at unit 1.

This is very irritating with the stats (where every 2 points gets you something) and some skills (where you have to invest x amount to get something, being that x is more than 1).

Using a 1 - 1 type system is, for me, much more rewarding.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_philty_]

               I think you could skill and abilities checks to alloe your characters access to more areas or further information.

For example, lets say your chap/party enters a wilderness or an unknown ruin area. Depending on Spot / Listen / Search you woul be able to identify some hidden entrance or hidden objects that can unlock areas that offer either some loot items, safe rest or meeting with an hermit.

Or lets say you are on a mission to rescue some one hostage to a maddened wizard. The final encounter is not hostile at first. Based on some book you managed to read (again, due to higher lore or spellcraft), you learn that if you go invisible and talk to the Wiz, he will believe he is hearing voices. Talking to him allows you to choose some options more fitting to your alignment: a) tell him to take a potion an cure him [+5 pts to Good]; tell him to free hostage; or c) command to commit suicide out of his madness [+5 pts to Evil]. Killing him allows you to get a key to some of his stash, but curing him grants you gratitude and a map to some adventuring chutiya-giri...

Or some conversation with a mini-plot chap could give you an extra option based on either Cha, Int or Wis... I miss this kind of stuff A LOT!