party members - out of control!?

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               

Mystery X wrote...
Someone who has actually used TonyK's AI with the OC would know.  But it's my understanding that the level-ups for henchmen in the OC are accomplished not by adding a level to the existing henchmen, but by removing the old henchman and replacing it with a brand new henchman (Tomi doesn't level up by adding a 7th level to his existing 6; Sixth Level Tomi is replaced by an entirely separate Seventh Level Tomi).  So I would expect that inventory doesn't survive new levels for henchmen.

I'm fairly sure you're right, Mystery, and they store the hench version number as a variable, based on your PC's level.  They changed the level-up dynamic in the expansions to actually use a level-up template but the OC uses the 'ol 14 versions method.  I think you'd need to use jml's method to assure you don't lose the hench inventory during new chapter load... temp storage in your own PC's inventory.

There's only so much that TK's AI can control and transitioning hench NPCs to the next module of the OC isn't one of them.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_jmlzemaggo]

                I remember that as well, Mystery X. 100% correct here. It's a brand new henchy, so it's best to to safely store his equipment before any chapter transition. Now, I'm getting confused here, as I also remember something I found very interesting, still do, when the henchy levels-up in the OC: 
When your own PC is just about to levelup, get your henchy fully naked, and place every item around which could suit your henchy the best in his inventory. Then level-up yourself, so will your henchy but in choosing the best gear, ring, weapon... according to his very own specs. 
I learned a lot through about gear and choices by observing that system at work in my NWN youth. 
               
               

               

                     Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 13 septembre 2011 - 08:28 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_jmlzemaggo]

               There is something that I wish TK's AI or the regular bioware one could take care of: if you play a spellcaster, (cleric here) yourself, and buff up your henchy's scimitar wth a '+5 enhancement' and some 'dark fire' for instance, that henchy will not "see" that improvement, and switch to what he still but wrongly considers like his best weapon... a regular boring +0 Greatsword most of the time, as soon as the next fight starts. 

That still drives me n.... today. 
               
               

               

                     Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 13 septembre 2011 - 08:41 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Wids]

               

Spellcasting henchfolk are notoriously difficult to control in NWN.

Tell me about it.  If I had a dollar for every time that my pet succubus has zapped my cleric with Evard's Black Tentacles or Lightning Bolt, or every time that said succubus cast Black Tentacles on goblins or other Small or smaller creatures (who are immune to the spell), or every time that my pet water elemental has caught my cleric in her Ice Storm spells....

Now that I think about it, is there really much difference between the Attack Nearest, Follow and Guard Me commands?  They all result in my pets and henchies running off to attack the nearest enemy (or possibly the nearest, rather...), with the exception of Follow, where my pets and henchies will run back to me for about 1 entire second before charging right back at the bad guys, just in time to get caught in my cleric's Negative Energy Burst....

Yes, I know...spamming "V-E-E" over and over, blah blah blah.  I know that.  It's the only way I can get them to resist the urge to charge right at the enemy.  The alternative is the Stand Your Ground command, which, if you use it mid-battle, is a nice way to get your pets swarmed by a dozen ogres without raising a finger to defend themselves (or to defend you, if the ogres find your character a more attractive target instead).
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_jmlzemaggo]

               

Wids wrote...
Now that I think about it, is there really much difference between the Attack Nearest, Follow and Guard Me commands?

Oh yes. Those work very fine with me. 
I use only "Stand" "Follow" & "Attack Nearest"(F10, F11 & F12 shortkeys) myself. 
It might depends on the module you're playing and if there is any specific AI included in it, but I'm getting better in my relation with my henchies now with these three orders only, as I wannna be the one unleaching their power. Always. Well, almost... 
They're always under "Follow" when approaching foes. Maybe since I play spellcasters such as you do quite often. And use them mostly as tanks. You might have to press 'F11' a few times more than it's necessary, but rarely. 
But I must say I find them reacting pretty well to my orders.  

Much better than the woman I love for instance. 

I tried duo-playing NWN with her once...  
Believe me, henchies obey. 
               
               

               

                     Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 16 septembre 2011 - 07:36 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Wids]

               Mine give me trouble here and there.  Maybe the server which I usually play on messed with the AI, but I think it would be a huge goodie if, instead of Attack Nearest, we just had an Attack command where your pets attack whichever enemy you're highlighting at the time (and default to Attack Nearest if you're not highlighting anyone).  That way, I could command my pets to dogpile the Ogre Brute (and ignore the three or four Goblins until the Ogre Brute is dead) while I'm busy nuking and counterspelling the Ogre Mage behind him.  That would make such a magnificent difference if the Attack command worked that way.

And I just use the Voicechat commands on my pets: VEE for Follow, VWE for Attack Nearest, VWF for Guard Me and so on.  I've just about got all the Voicechat options memorized, including all of the pet commands.  It makes pet management a little easier, so I can spam VEE whenever my Skeleton Captain feels like running off and aggroing a mob that's better left unaggroed. 
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Wids, 16 septembre 2011 - 09:18 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               

Wids wrote...
And I just use the Voicechat commands on my pets: VEE for Follow, VWE for Attack Nearest, VWF for Guard Me and so on.  I've just about got all the Voicechat options memorized, including all of the pet commands.  It makes pet management a little easier, so I can spam VEE whenever my Skeleton Captain feels like running off and aggroing a mob that's better left unaggroed. 

A nifty method.  You must be good at RP. '> Takes some practice to get used to using it but frees up limited quickslots for spells, morphs & equipment swaps.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Wids]

               

HipMaestro wrote...

A nifty method.  You must be good at RP. '>

Well, I do roleplay even when no one else is around (though more than one DM has sneaked up on me during those times, which always makes for a pleasant surprise when my cleric says "Ahoy" to a merchant and the merchant greets her back).  And I play that rare animal: a cleric who actually sets aside time to pray and commune with her goddess, which usually involves my cleric going to the beach, kneeling in the surf, dropping black pearls out of her Inventory into the sea and praying to Umberlee in the Aquan tongue.  And, true to Chaotic alignment, it's never the same prayer twice.

I've received a few compliments.

Thanky. 

Takes some practice to get used to using it but frees up limited quickslots for spells, morphs & equipment swaps.

That it does!  Clicking on the pet's portrait and using the radial menu is another easy way to command your pets, but Voicechat is still faster once you've practiced it enough.  Either way, you're right: quickslots are for spells, equipment and special abilities, not pet commands.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Wids, 16 septembre 2011 - 11:11 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_jmlzemaggo]

               

Wids wrote...
I think it would be a huge goodie if, instead of Attack Nearest, we just had an Attack command where your pets attack whichever enemy you're highlighting at the time...

That's very possible, as I already played a few community modules with that kind of feature, most of the time through some custom "usable" item in your inventory, specific to that module, allowing you to click on the target of your choice for your henchy to have a straight and personal chat with. 

Maybe ask at the "Module" Forum.
But 100% possible. 
               
               

               

                     Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 16 septembre 2011 - 12:28 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_WebShaman]

               All things good, but it is still a very poor substitute for the BG method, isn't it?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Wids]

               That depends on what the BG method is.  Not everyone is savvy on the lingo, after all.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_WebShaman]

               BG = Balder's Gate.

The Balder's Gate Method of Party Control is to allow complete possession of any party member.

NWN2 returned this type of method (but had really cruddy AI) and DA (Dragon's Age) returned this type of method in perhaps the best form that we have witnessed it, to date.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Wids]

               Ah.  So it's basically like the Dungeon Siege method, then.  '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_jmlzemaggo]

               

Wids wrote...

Ah.  So it's basically like the Dungeon Siege method, then.  '>

What a fine game that was... 
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

jmlzemaggo wrote...

Wids wrote...
I think it would be a huge goodie if, instead of Attack Nearest, we just had an Attack command where your pets attack whichever enemy you're highlighting at the time...

That's very possible, as I already played a few community modules with that kind of feature, most of the time through some custom "usable" item in your inventory, specific to that module, allowing you to click on the target of your choice for your henchy to have a straight and personal chat with. 

Maybe ask at the "Module" Forum.
But 100% possible. 

Well custom item is not very good as it takes a whole round to use it and do anything else again. It could be bound on one of those PC tools feats or I could change the henchman AI (wouldnt be compatible with Tony I guess unless I would modified tony as well) so if you use guard command or maybe attack nearest they will attack target you are currently attacking/casting at (if exist, if not default behavior).

I looked already into code and Guard command actually tries to attack the last enemy who attacked player character which is the only difference between attack nearest. Or do anyone have better idea how should could guard command work?
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 17 septembre 2011 - 11:49 .