Identify/Lore issue...seeking a console solution.

[Legacy_WebShaman]

               Case in point (again) - what is "blue"?  Of course, we have definitions for this color, especially in the scientific sense.

Now, you may say that blue is something else.  You may even believe this.  It doesn't change things, however, as defined.

If I am the only one who is making the definition, and no-one else is involved, can be involved, will ever be involved, then I can define blue to be whatever I want it to be - definition of a Closed SP Environment.  And I can change this whenever I wish to.

However, we all live in an open environment - and blue is pre-defined.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Kail Pendragon]

               

ffbj wrote...

That's your opinion.

No, it is not. It is a fact.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Kail Pendragon]

               

ShaDoOoW wrote...

Kail Pendragon wrote...
':D:D:D:D:D:D

Ludicrous to say the least. You have no clue whatsoever what closed SP means, dude. I'm not surprised since you generally have no clue whatsoever. Altering the lore skill, differently from what the OP thinks, in his/her SP games simply is not cheating.

Yes and I have especially no clue why moderators havent acted yet. Every post of yours contain hate speech against my or other persons who doesnt agree with you. Absolutely poor.

Hate? I do not hate you. At most I despise the sheer level of unintelligence of what is being written that you, oh so often, display. And I wonder whether you know what I am meaning with intelligence/unintelligence here, but I'm digressing.

I do not give a darn if you or anyone else agrees with me or not, truisms do not need agreement. Those that recognize them display intelligence of the matter, those that do not display incapacity to understand. It's that simple.

And you can't blame me for your lack of capacity to distinguish between "fix" and "modification": that alone speaks volumes about the meaninglessness of all your statements. So, where were you standing? Oh yeah, I could have guessed '>
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Kail Pendragon, 10 septembre 2011 - 11:40 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Androrc]

               

Kail Pendragon wrote...

ShaDoOoW wrote...

Kail Pendragon wrote...
':D:D:D:D:D:D

Ludicrous to say the least. You have no clue whatsoever what closed SP means, dude. I'm not surprised since you generally have no clue whatsoever. Altering the lore skill, differently from what the OP thinks, in his/her SP games simply is not cheating.

Yes and I have especially no clue why moderators havent acted yet. Every post of yours contain hate speech against my or other persons who doesnt agree with you. Absolutely poor.

Hate? I do not hate you. At most I despise the sheer level of unintelligence of what is being written that you, oh so often, display. And I wonder whether you know what I am meaning with intelligence/unintelligence here, but I'm digressing.

I do not give a darn if you or anyone else agrees with me or not, truisms do not need agreement. Those that recognize them display intelligence of the matter, those that do not display incapacity to understand. It's that simple.

And you can't blame me for your lack of capacity to distinguish between "fix" and "modification": that alone speaks volumes about the meaninglessness of all your statements. So, where were you standing? Oh yeah, I could have guessed '>

I imagine his point is that you are being overly aggressive, a kind of behavior which tends to be accompanied by poor arguments and which is generally despised, as it creates unnecessary friction with other forum members (you could have gotten your point across in another way). So once you act like that it is good that he called you out on it, and in a more mature way.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Kail Pendragon]

               In a mature way? Shadow? It's getting really ridiculous. Someone that doesn't (want to) know the difference between a fix and a modification, that thinks that since the OP talked about his SP than the closeness of the SP environment is violated and that generally is unable to make an argument, any argument, worth to be called such, who fails to grasp basic logical concepts and whose only way out is to build the same old strawman where I am the bad guy is so far away from maturity as light is from darkness.

And I'm not being aggressive at all. I'm simply stating the truth. Now, the fact the heralds of falsity and delusion feel attacked by the statement of truth is not my concern. May they rot in the nine hells. And all those who can't take the heat, as they say, may very well stay outta the kitchen.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Kail Pendragon, 11 septembre 2011 - 01:59 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_epic Kobold]

               Humorous to see two individuals building a house of cards out of a poor understanding of logic.  And equating volume with truth.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Hardcore UFO]

               I feel old when I read certain tones and vocabularies being used and am almost wistful in thinking: "Aw, look. He just got through the first 100 pages of something DesCartes wrote and now he's squeezing 'cogito' in every sentence... Life really is a cycle. Sniff."
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_WebShaman]

               

Humorous to see two individuals building a house of cards out of a poor understanding of logic. And equating volume with truth.

Then kindly demonstrate yours and show us where we are wrong.  After all, we have a "poor understanding" of logic...so educate us with your superior version.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Gregor Wyrmbane]

                
The cheating/not cheating issue is very simple, and not complicated like some folks would like to have everyone believe.

There's a 10 page disucussion of it that can be viewed here if you'd like a little amusement:  

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/199/index/7292934/1


By definition, to cheat you must break "the rules". There are no rules that come in the players handbook when you buy NWN in any of its forms. In fact, it specifically states in the players handbook that "the rules" are hard coded into the game engine and cannot be broken by the player.  Don't believe me? Look it up for yourself in your players handbook. If you can't find it, I referenced the page number in the above linked thread.

Multi player is different. In MP there are "house rules", laid down by the owner of the "house", and enforced by the owner/DM's. In MP it is possible to break "the rules".
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               if it would be so simple then this would not end with 10 pages of flaming, one member left this community and no closure
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Gregor Wyrmbane]

               

ShaDoOoW wrote...

if it would be so simple then this would not end with 10 pages of flaming, one member left this community and no closure

The people who cannot/will not find closure are the people who are misinformed about the rules of NWN, and/or the people who wish to redefine the word cheat to suit their own controlling nature.

There are certain facts about this issue that cannot be disputed by any logical argument.

1. The universally accepted definition of the word "cheat" is to "break the rules".

2. The NWN players handbook specifically states that all the rules governing NWN are hard coded into the game engine and cannot be broken by the player. 

3. If you can't break the rules, you can't cheat.

It doesn't get much simpler than that.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lightfoot8]

               

Gregor Wyrmbane wrote...

The people who cannot/will not find closure are the people who are misinformed about the rules of NWN, and/or the people who wish to redefine the word cheat to suit their own controlling nature.

I dissagree,  I have seen no one in this thread say that the OP is not more then welcome to make the modification that they asked about.  In Fact most of the poeple who have called it cheating have been the most helpfull in answering his question on how to go about it.   It is the 'it is not cheating' people who have done nothing by cry about how other people chose to see thing that have raised all of the fuss here.   The calim that because we call it cheating, we are some how pointing a moral finger and trying to controll otheres.  If that is so,  Why is it that only the 'we call it cheating' Group,  is helping the OP cheat and not just mucking up his thread with this clutter, that I am once again adding to against my better judgment.  

There are certain facts about this issue that cannot be disputed by any logical argument.

1. The universally accepted definition of the word "cheat" is to "break the rules".

I agree with your deffintiion of cheat.  WebShaman however makes a better case with his argument with his assumption that you have to have someone to cheat in order to cheat.   I however in agreement with your deffinition would say that if you break the rules you are cheating.  

2. The NWN players handbook specifically states that all the rules governing NWN are hard coded into the game engine and cannot be broken by the player. 

3. If you can't break the rules, you can't cheat.

After looking in the Player HandBook, for this Quote you are making  reference to,  The closest thing I can find is:

Quote Players HandBook...

The Dungeons & Dragons rules set has been carefully designed to
facilitate your travels, and Neverwinter Nights takes full advantage
of that flexibility. The convenience of a computer roleplaying
game means that the majority of rules and functions are handled
behind the scenes, leaving you free to enjoy your adventures without
worrying about rules.

3. If you can't break the rules, you can't cheat.

It doesn't get much simpler than that.

Well I hope I missed the Quote form the Players Handbook you are talking about. For the one I quoted basicly says: Dont worrie about it if you do not know how to play D&D or roll a saving throw  against a DC, The game takes care of it for you.  It say nothing about changing the rulles as being cheating or not.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Kail Pendragon]

               

epic Kobold wrote...

Humorous to see two individuals building a house of cards out of a poor understanding of logic.  And equating volume with truth.

In fact there's no need of "volume" at all. Cheating in SP is not possible.  All the volume has been made by those failing to understand a simple logical argument, based on the ordinary english meaning of "cheating".

It's indeed humorous to see Shadow and friends put up this idiotic show all the times... humorous indeed :lol:
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Kail Pendragon, 13 septembre 2011 - 12:25 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Kail Pendragon]

               

ShaDoOoW wrote...

if it would be so simple then this would not end with 10 pages of flaming, one member left this community and no closure

Oh look Lowlander left and the idiocy has not stopped... it means there's more than one member disturbing the community with their arrogant unintelligence (but that I already knew).
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Kail Pendragon]

               

Gregor Wyrmbane wrote...

ShaDoOoW wrote...

if it would be so simple then this would not end with 10 pages of flaming, one member left this community and no closure

The people who cannot/will not find closure are the people who are misinformed about the rules of NWN, and/or the people who wish to redefine the word cheat to suit their own controlling nature.

There are certain facts about this issue that cannot be disputed by any logical argument.

1. The universally accepted definition of the word "cheat" is to "break the rules".

As a further important clarification, cheating also implies deceipt. And that implies two parties. Oh look, in SP there's one single parrty involved.