Odd question but what is the point of epic levels?

[Legacy_C Barchuk]

               I mean every module I've seen is for low levels on up to maybe the teens. Don't get me wrong, I find the lower levels to be the most fun. At any rate if there isn't alot of material for the uber character levels like that, what's the point of even having it? I assume for online play?
               
               

               

                     Modifié par C Barchuk, 20 août 2011 - 04:51 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               Point is to allow builders to make module for these levels. Also 99% of the online modules (PWs) are up to lvl 40.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MrZork]

               There are lots of modules that cover epic levels. Take a look at this thread and see. And, there are many persistant worlds with epic levels as well...
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_WebShaman]

               IMHO (and many others, as I have seen often on teh interwebs) Epic levels in D&D are sooooo broken, it ain't funny!

Basically, as a D20 game, it "breaks down" over level 20.  Either you attempt to "lessen the impact" by stopping BAB progression (ala 3.0 NWN) OR you totally go overboard and continue it (ala 3.5 NWN2).  Either way, it introduces such imbalances that they are just not "fixable".

I personally only find Epic levels applicable in a sort of Outer Planes type setting, where one is dealing with Great Powers (like Gods, elemental and pivotal forces of the Universe, etc).  This normally has less to do with actual types of combat, and more to do with actual moral and/or conundrum type decisions that have massive impact on everything.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_C Barchuk]

               Yea that makes sense. The problem is I mainly only play single player. What made me think of about this was the fact that I'm wanting to level a character all the way to 40. After browsing through some of the community modules out there I didn't come across barely anything in the higher levels. I'm sitting thinking to myself, how am I going to actually get to level 40?...lol. Now I didn't look through every single module and I've been away from the game for a long time so my memory is a bit fuzzy but it just made me stop and think for a minute. Your right about broken levels beyond 20 WebShaman. As you know I've been seeking advice on a rogue or assassin build. I took a couple of prospects and made level 40 versions of them in a character builder. The toughest enemies at that point I think are ancient dragons. The level 40 characters could kill them pretty easily which doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me from a RP stand point. Now NWN2(which I don't like as much) only goes up to level 30. Does that make epic levels not so broken or is it the same either way? Just curious
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_C Barchuk]

               

MrZork wrote...

There are lots of modules that cover epic levels. Take a look at this thread and see. And, there are many persistant worlds with epic levels as well...

Yea I see though most don't look to be very good. I appreciate the link though and will look through it some more later. What I mean by doesn't look very good is comparing the few I read to the Hall of Fame modules. I guess I'm looking for the BG experience in every adventure I play regardless of level. Alot are pvp or throws you against countless numbers of enemies. Also what does it mean by "DM required or occasional DM required?"
               
               

               

                     Modifié par C Barchuk, 20 août 2011 - 01:59 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_C Barchuk]

               

ShaDoOoW wrote...

Point is to allow builders to make module for these levels. Also 99% of the online modules (PWs) are up to lvl 40.

Excuse my lack of knowlege there but are PW's the equivalent to like World of Warcraft though I hate to use that comparsion? I haven't played anything other single player.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Elhanan]

               Because not all of us enjoy playing lowbies?

I long for Bane of Enemies, Epic Dmg Reduction, Epic Dodge, etc, and tire of goblinoids, vermin, and the like ruining a morning walk.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               It becomes an even worse nightmare trying to balance the H&S with all the uber gear available that caps all abilities and skills or imparts capabilities (even epic ones) for classes that would never have access to them otherwise.  Then the hostiles must be customized to be made so difficult that a party of 8 is needed to dispatch them.

I agree that most epic environments are a runaway train with the designer(s) and DMs scrambling to maintain some balance.  The best D&D "feel" has pre-epic caps, for me anyway.  I'll pass on wall-to-wall, artifically contrived demilichs to test my mettle and leave the vicarious experience to others more attuned to that level of enjoyment. There are plenty of them.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_C Barchuk]

               I definitely hear ya. I would love to play an epic adventure that was both challenging and fun but I've yet to play one. The only time I ever even played with the higher level abilities was in HotU...lol. Now I just returned to game from many years away so I'm not as familiar with things.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_C Barchuk]

               

HipMaestro wrote...

It becomes an even worse nightmare trying to balance the H&S with all the uber gear available that caps all abilities and skills or imparts capabilities (even epic ones) for classes that would never have access to them otherwise.  Then the hostiles must be customized to be made so difficult that a party of 8 is needed to dispatch them.

I agree that most epic environments are a runaway train with the designer(s) and DMs scrambling to maintain some balance.  The best D&D "feel" has pre-epic caps, for me anyway.  I'll pass on wall-to-wall, artifically contrived demilichs to test my mettle and leave the vicarious experience to others more attuned to that level of enjoyment. There are plenty of them.

I agree with you. I play this game for the role-playing, adventure part of it. Some prefer pure hack and slash which is cool too. I just haven't played anything beyond HotU that was for higher levels but still had a great story. I'm also not really interested in the PvP part either. If wanted to do that I would just go back to playing WoW which I really don't want to do...lol.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

C Barchuk wrote...

ShaDoOoW wrote...

Point is to allow builders to make module for these levels. Also 99% of the online modules (PWs) are up to lvl 40.

Excuse my lack of knowlege there but are PW's the equivalent to like World of Warcraft though I hate to use that comparsion? I haven't played anything other single player.

If you havent tried how you can know its like WoW?

I didnt played WoW so I cant tell you but it seems to me that you are just biased.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Elhanan]

               Caereena: KR, Aielund IV+, and Sands of Fate series were all entertaining, Epic playgrounds that gave me several hours of fun, and replay value for trying various builds.

Then after solo play, the World of Aenea PW has given me a few years of fun to try various Epic builds, and is quite enjoyable from 1st to 40th+.

For a more customized experience, I recommend a small scale campaign with other like-minded players and a DM or two; kept me occupied for 5 yrs. My intel states that Neverwinter Connections may be a way to go if this has appeal.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_C Barchuk]

               Elhanan, thanks for the recommendations bud. I will definitely try those out. So what is a PW like? I mean is basically like an MMO? I think I would love to try out out a campaign with a small group online. That sounds like a blast. I don't really have friends that play this game so I guess I would to try and find some like-minded friends lol.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_C Barchuk]

               

ShaDoOoW wrote...

C Barchuk wrote...

ShaDoOoW wrote...

Point is to allow builders to make module for these levels. Also 99% of the online modules (PWs) are up to lvl 40.

Excuse my lack of knowlege there but are PW's the equivalent to like World of Warcraft though I hate to use that comparsion? I haven't played anything other single player.

If you havent tried how you can know its like WoW?

I didnt played WoW so I cant tell you but it seems to me that you are just biased.

I don't know for sure. I'm just making an assumption. Playing in a virtual world with other players like an MMO. That's just what these PW's sound like to me. I don't mean that in a negative way. I could be wrong of course. I won't know till I give it a try which I just may do.'>
               
               

               

                     Modifié par C Barchuk, 20 août 2011 - 03:48 .