Understanding the Mechanics of Shifter Form Attacks

[Legacy_MrZork]

               I've not played enough shifters or paid enough attention to know: What is the final disposition of the XP penalty while shifted? I got the impression from one of the guides (the Shifter FAQ by Douglass Crews, I think) that it was an issue that was supposed to be fixed (which I assume meant "removed") in a patch that was to be released at some point after the FAQ was written (which was patch 1.64). Did that happen except for Drow form? The NWNWiki doesn't say, and since I don't know if most of the forms even have preferred classes, it seems like it would apply to them. It would certainly be nice if it only applied to one or two forms that the character may well outgrow.

BTW, not to drift too far off topic, but I usually try to avoid XP penalties in builds (or at least make them brief). Obviously, in modules with a pre-set number of quests, monsters, and so on, there is an interest in not sinking too far below the level spread the module was designed for. When designing a build for play at 40th level, it may not matter as much, since one will get there anyway, eventually.

Also, though I haven't really thought this through, there is the notion that the penalties are intended to enforce some idea of game balance for multiclassing. Putting aside whether that was a really a success or not, I wonder if it would be a little annoying to visit a PW where one can import "legal" level 40 builds and see an elvish Sorc 26/Cleric 10/Ftr 4? Kind of like seeing a Pal 16/Bard 16/BG 8 with both epic and pre-epic levels in each class - sure the alignment shifts are possible, but there's something a little suspect about it.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_WebShaman]

               Zella's Guide should be stored on the WayBackMachine.  Anyone tried to find it and "rescue" this resource?

   

   
   Zelle's Shifter Details, and Druid Wildshape and Elemental Shape Details, Version V


   


  ZelleQyllvan[/b]

Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
SW: KotOR PC
NWN 2


Lié: 21 jui 2004
Posté: vendredi, 03 décembre 2004 11:39

The previous version of this thread can be found: Click Here

My Epic Shifter Build, "Nature's Faces" can be found: Click Here

Corrections from the last version:
Harpy DC is 15+1/3 Shifter levels, not 14+1/3 Shifter levels

Known bugs/features:
Spectre Shadow Attack shows a Bad Strff when examined for info.

Should
you die when shifted, remember to reequip everything, or shift, as your
properties stop applying to you (this sucketh if someone raises you in
the middle of battle)

Some forms have a different AB in the
attack screen than on the character sheet. This is due to Larger forms
having - to their AB, while Smaller forms get + to their AB.

Unarmed
Weapon feats, with the exception of Improved Critical, do not
apply/work when shifted. Neither does Weapon Finesse (for the
unarmed/creature weapon attacks), though your character sheet will say
they do.

Item properties pick the highest one when merging,
instead of stacking. So you are better off with a Belt of Str +7, than a
Belt of Str +5 and a Ring of Str +4. All AC types count as the same
when shifted, and only pick the single highest one. However should you
have the same property that would normally stack among your worn
inventory on your WEAPON seperate from armor/items, since it is not
grouped on your hide it will still stack normally with your hide
properties. Regeneration seems to be the only property that does stack
on your hide.

Bracers/gloves/gauntlets properties do not merge in any form.

Newly found/reported/understood bugs/features:
Wyrmling
form, when using the keypad to activate (099), will ALWAYS "occur" to
the East, regardless of where the breath visual is or the direction you
are facing at the time.

"Server-save bug", aka "property stacking
craziness." To sum up, what SEEMS to be happening (still under testing,
so this is working hypothesis)is that with the first server/background
save, your shape properties become "glued" to your hide. With further
server saves, they copy themselves each time AGAIN onto your hide. For
some of these this does no effect. Doubling doesn't hurt them, and they
don't even "work" when not in that form (such as True Seeing). For
others, such as Gargoyle Damage Reduction, this is something that will
even carry over to other forms, giving you permanent DR no matter your
shape until you relog. For others, what seems to be the % immunities
(for example Wyrmling and Risen Lord,) the redoubling of the properties
causes the engine to not know how to deal with increased % past the
second server save, and they first go heywire, then stop working
all-together with a third save still in the same form. However if you
let one save happen, then shift out of that form, the property will be
glued to your hide and work "normally." As said, this is still being
tested, so please submit any details you find.

Druid bugs that can affect Shifters:
Fire elemental hide has 1d8 and 1d8 fire damage, instead of 2d8 fire damage. These do not stack.

Bolt
touch attacks from things like certain spiders are bypassing the druid
feat that makes you immune to web, grease, and entangle effects.

.
.
.

Calculations
for Epic special abilities tend not to be included because they
generally are alot easier to understand and calculate from the ingame
descriptions of them. Keep in mind I said GENERALLY. Not always.

THP= temporary hit points added to the form above the new HP calculation form the new CON.

If
the AC says +# instead of just a #, that is because your own base DEX
presides in this shape, so it is changable based on your own stat.

Note
any form that that gets DR on their hide will count as that enhancement
level of weapon for bypassing other DR checks. This does not apply if
they are carry their own weapon.

A lot of the spell-like
abilities go off your caster level, such as magic missile and ice storm
for determining damage and number. So a high caster level (druid or a
3rd class) is likely a good idea if you wish these abilities to be
useful.

Also, concentration checks are still made for things like
casting darkness and other spell-like abilities, so going light on
concentration because you don’t plan on having a high caster level is
prolly a bad idea.

.
.
.
.
.

Non-Epic Shifter Details

Greater Wildshape I (Wyrmling)(Infinite at lvl 4)
All merge Armor and Items.

Red (Dragon)
Str: 16, Dex: -, Con: 15
THP: +15/AC +5
True Seeing, Immunity: Paralysis
Immunity Increased: Fire 100%, Immunity Decreased: Cold 50%
Fire Cloud: DC 15+½ Shifter levels, Reflex save

Blue (Dragon)
Str: 15, Dex: -, Con: 15
THP: +15/AC +5
True Seeing, Immunity: Paralysis
Immunity Increased: Electricity 100%
Lightning Cloud: DC 15+½ Shifter levels, Reflex save

Black (Dragon)
Str: 15, Dex: 17, Con: -
THP: +15/AC 18
True Seeing, Immunity: Paralysis
Immunity Increased: Acid 100%
Acid Cloud: DC 15+½ Shifter levels, Reflex save

White (Dragon)
Str: 15, Dex: 17, Con: -
THP: +15/AC 18
True Seeing, Immunity: Paralysis
Immunity Increased: Cold 100%, Immunity Decreased: Fire 50%
Cold Cloud: DC 15+½ Shifter levels, Reflex save

Green (Dragon)
Str: 15, Dex: - Con: 16
THP: +15/AC +5
True Seeing, Immunity: Paralysis
Immunity Increased: Acid 100%
Chlorine Gas Cloud (Acid): DC 15+½ Shifter levels, Reflex save

Greater Wildshape II (Infinite at lvl 7)

Harpy (Magical Beast)
Str: 18, Dex: 18, Con:-
THP: +20/AC 22
Merge Armor, Merge Items
Captivating Song: DC 15+1/3 Shifter levels, Will save

Gargoyle (Magical Beast)
Str: -, Dex: 18, Con: 18
THP: +20/AC 22
Merge Armor, Merge Items
Damage Reduction 15/+1

Minotaur (Monstrous)
Str: 19, Dex: -, Con: 17
THP: +25/AC +6
Merge Armor, Merge Items, Merge Weapon
Battleaxe +1

Greater Wildshape III (Infinite at lvl 10)

Basilisk (Magical Beast)
Str: 16, Dex: -, Con: -
THP: +30/AC +10
Merge Armor ONLY
Petrification Gaze: DC 12+½ Shifter levels, Fortitude save

Drider (Aberration)
Str: 16, Dex: 16, Con: 15
THP: +20/AC 21
Merge Armor, Merge Items, Merge Weapon
Spell Resistance 14, Freedom of Movement
Darkness
Drider Spear +2
(+2 Discipline, OnHit Poison: DC 16 1d2 Strength)

Manticore (Magical Beast)
Str: 20, Dex: 19, Con: 15
THP: +30/AC 21
Merge Armor ONLY
Hurl Spikes: ½ Shifter levels, Maximum 5

Humanoid Shape (Infinite at lvl 13)

Drow Warrior(Elf)
Str: 18, Dex: 21, Con: (-2)(+2 Dex due to racial change already figured in)
THP: +30/AC 23
Merge Armor, Merge Items, Merge Weapon
Spell Resistance 26
Darkness
Venomblade +3
(OnHit Poison: DC 16 1d2 Strength, +2 Improved Saving Throw vs Poison)

Lizardfolk Whipmaster (Reptilian)
Str: 16, Dex: 20, Con:-
THP: +35/AC 24
Merge Armor, Merge Items, Merge Weapon
Damage Reduction 5/+1, Damage Resistance: Acid 5/-
Immunity: Poison, Saving Throw Bonus Universal: +2
Bonus Feat: Ambidexterity
Freedom of Movement, +10 Discipline, +4 Listen
Shocking Whip +3
(Bonus Feat: Disarm (Whip), 1d6 Electrical Damage, OnHit Stun: DC 22 10%/ 4 Rounds)

Kobold Commando (Reptilian)
Str: -, Dex: 22, Con: -
THP: +10/AC 26
Merge Armor, Merge Items, Merge Weapon
Freedom of Movement
Bonus Feats: Darkvision, Dodge, Use Poison
+10 Hide and Move Silently, +5 Listen and Spot, +7 Open Lock and Set Trap, +10 Tumble
Commando Sword +3
(Bonus Feats: Hide in Plain Sight, Sneak Attack (2d6), Weapon Finesse, OnHit Poison: DC 18 1d2 Strength)

Greater Wildshape IV (Infinite at lvl 16)

Dire Tiger (Animal)
Str: 27, Dex: 17, Con: 15
THP: +60/AC 21
Merge Armor ONLY
None

Medusa (Monstrous)
Str: 19, Dex: 19, Con: -
THP: +35/AC 24
Merge Armor, Merge Items
Bonus Feat: Weapon Finesse
Medusa Snakes: OnHit Poison: DC 14
Petrification Gaze: DC 12+½ Shifter levels, Fortitude save

Mind Flayer (Aberration)
Str: -, Dex: 19, Con: -, Int: +8, Wis: +2
THP: +30/AC 21
Merge Armor, Merge Items
Spell Resistance 24, Immunity: Mind-Affecting Spells
Bonus Feat: Darkvision, Dodge, +6 Listen and Spot
Weapon Enhancement +2
Psionic Inertial Barrier: 10/+5, 1 round per level
Mind Blast: DC 10+Wis modifier+½ Shifter levels, Will save, Magical Damage

Epic Shifter Details

Greater Wildshape II, Improved forms (Level 11)

Harpy (Magical Beast)
Str: 20, Dex: -, Con: 20
THP: +40/AC +11
Merge Armor, Merge Items
Captivating Song: DC 15+1/3 Shifter levels, Will save

Gargoyle (Magical Beast)
Str: 20, Dex: 20, Con: -
THP: +60/AC 27
Merge Armor, Merge Items
Damage Reduction 25/+7, Damage Resistance: Piercing 25/-
Bonus Feat: Power Attack

Minotaur (Monstrous)
Str: 22, Dex: -, Con: 20
THP: +50/AC +10
Merge Armor, Merge Items, Merge Weapon
Epic Minotaur Axe +3
(Bonus Feats: Weapon Proficiency: Martial, Knockdown, 1d6 Fire Damage)

Greater Wildshape III, Improved forms (Level 15)

Basilisk (Magical Beast)
Str: 17, Dex: 17, Con: -
THP: +60/AC 23
Merge Armor ONLY
Petrification Gaze: DC 12+½ Shifter levels, Fortitude save

Drider (Aberration)
Str: 19, Dex: 17, Con: 18
THP: +60/AC 25
Merge Armor, Merge Items, Merge Weapon
Spell Resistance 18, Damage Reduction 5/+20
Freedom of Movement, +8 Hide and Move Silently
Darkness, Magic Missile
Drider Spear +5
(Bonus Feat: Cleave, +6 Discipline, OnHit Poison: DC 20 1d2 Strength)

Manticore (Magical Beast)
Str: 20, Dex: 19, Con: -
THP: +60/AC 30
Merge Armor, Merge Items
Damage Reduction 5/+20, Bonus Feat: Power Attack
Hurl Spikes: ½ Shifter levels, Maximum 5

Humanoid Shape, Improved forms (Level 17)

Drow Warrior (Elf)
Str: 22, Dex: 24, Con: (-2)(+2 Dex due to racial change already figured in)
THP: +60/AC 30
Merge Armor, Merge Items, Merge Weapon
Spell Resistance 30
Bonus Feats: Cleave, Dodge, Darkvision, Improved Evasion
Darkness
Drow Frozen Blade +6
(OnHit Freeze: Slow Attacker, DC 10+(Casterlevel), [Level 15], 2d4 Cold Damage)

Lizardfolk Whipmaster (Reptilian)
Str: 21, Dex: 20, Con: -
THP: +75/AC 27
Merge Armor, Merge Items, Merge Weapon
Damage Reduction 15/+5, Damage Resistance: Acid 15/-
Immunity: Poison, Improved Saving Throws Universal: +4
Bonus Feats: Ambidexterity, Weapon Finesse, Whirlwind Attack
Freedom of Movement, +15 Discipline, +8 Listen
Epic Shocking Whip +5
(Bonus Feat: Disarm (Whip), 2d8 Electrical Damage, OnHit Stun: DC 26 10%/ 4 Rounds)

Kobold Commando (Reptilian)
Str: -, Dex: 25, Con: -
THP: +70/AC 30
Merge Armor, Merge Items, Merge Weapon
Freedom of Movement
Bonus Feats: Darkvision, Dodge, Use Poison
+10 Hide and Move Silently, +5 Listen and Spot, +7 Open Lock and Set Trap, +10 Tumble
Invisibility
Kobold Commando Sword +6
(Bonus
Feats: Hide in Plain Sight, Improved Evasion, Sneak Attack (5d6),
Weapon Finesse, 2d6 Massive Criticals, 2d4 Acid Damage, OnHit Poison: DC
24 1d2 Dexterity)

Epic Shifter Feats Details

Undead Shape

Risen Lord
Str: 21, Dex: -, Con: 19
THP: +60/AC +13
Merge Armor, Merge Items, Merge Weapon
Spell Resistance 20, Damage Reduction 15/+3
Damage Immunities: Slashing 50%, Piercing 50%
Immunities: Critical Hits, Death Magic, Disease, Level/Ability Drain, Mind-Affecting Spells, Paralysis, Poison, Sneak Attack
Risen Lord Scythe +5
(Bonus Feats: Cleave, Whirlwind Attack, Vampiric Regeneration +2)

Vampire
Str: 18, Dex: 20, Con: -
THP + 30/AC 28
Merge Armor, Merge Items
Regeneration +5, Damage Reduction 15/+1
Damage Resistances: Cold 20/-, Electricity 20/-
Immunities: Critical Hits, Death Magic, Disease, Level/Ability Drain, Mind-Affecting Spells, Paralysis, Poison, Sneak Attack
Weapon Enhancement +5
Vampire Bite: OnHit Level Drain 2: DC 30
Domination Gaze

Spectre
Str: 16, Dex: 22, Con: -
THP +40/AC 31
Merge Armor ONLY
Damage Reduction 15/+4, Turn Resistance: +2
Damage Resistances: Cold 5/-, Electricity 5/-
Immunity Decreased: Divine 25%
Immunities:
Critical Hits, Death Magic, Disease, Level/Ability Drain,
Mind-Affecting Spells, Paralysis, Poison, Sneak Attack, Knockdown
Bonus Feats: Darkvision, Improved Evasion
+15 Hide and Move Silently
Shadow Attack, Invisibility

Outsider Shape (Wisdom 25)

Azer Chieftain
Str: 20, Dex: -, Con: 21
THP +50/AC +13
Merge Armor, Merge Items, Merge Weapon
Spell Resistance 12, Immunity Increased: Fire 100%
Immunity Decreased: Cold 50%
Burning Hands, Fire Stream
Azer Flaming Waraxe +5
(Bonus Feats: Cleave, Knockdown, Power Attack, 2d4 Fire Damage)

Rakshasa
Str: 17, Dex: 20, Con: -
THP +30/AC 27
Merge Armor, Merge Items, Merge Weapon
Damage Reduction 15/+5, Immunity: Level 8 and Lower Spells
+15 Spellcraft, +11 Move Silently, +10 Hide and Spot, +5 Discipline
Dispel, Ice Storm, Mestil’s Acid Breath
Rakshasa Staff +5
(Bonus Feats: Dodge, Knockdown, True Seeing, Improved Saving Throws Universal: +2, 1d10 Fire Damage)

Death Slaad Lord
Str: 22, Dex: 19, Con: 18
THP +70/AC 30
Merge Armor ONLY
Regeneration +5, Immunity: Fear
Damage Reduction 10/+5
Damage Resistances: Acid 10/-, Cold 10/-, Electricity 10/-, Fire 10/-, Sonic 10/-
Bonus Feats: Cleave, Power Attack
Chaos Spittle

Construct Shape (Wisdom 27)

Stone Golem
Str: 31, Dex: -, Con: -
THP +90/AC +13
Merge Armor ONLY
Spell Resistance 22, Damage Reduction 15/+3
Damage Immunities: Piercing 50%, Slashing 50%
Immunity Decreased: Acid 50%
Immunities: Critical Hits, Death Magic, Disease, Level/Ability Drain, Mind-Affecting Spells, Paralysis, Poison, Sneak Attack
Hurl Rocks

Demonflesh Golem
Str: 29, Dex: -, Con: -
THP +90/AC +13
Merge Armor ONLY
Spell Resistance 22, Damage Reduction 30/+3
Immunity Increased: Electricity 100%
Damage Resistances: Acid 20/-, Cold 20/-, Fire 20/-
Immunities: Critical Hits, Death Magic, Disease, Level/Ability Drain, Mind-Affecting Spells, Paralysis, Poison, Sneak Attack

Iron Golem
Str: 33, Dex: -, Con: -
THP +90/ AC +13
Merge Armor, Merge Items
Spell Resistance 26, Damage Reduction 20/+4
Immunity Increased: Electricity 90%
Immunity Decreased: Fire 50%
Immunities: Critical Hits, Death Magic, Disease, Level/Ability Drain, Mind-Affecting Spells, Paralysis, Poison, Sneak Attack
Bonus Feats: Knockdown, Power Attack
Poison Gas

Dragon Shape (Wisdom 30)

Ancient Red Dragon
Str: 48, Dex: 36, Con: 32
THP +100/AC 43
Merge Armor ONLY
True Seeing, Spell Resistance 20, Damage Reduction 40/+6
Immunity Increased: Fire 100%, Immunity Decreased: Cold: 50%
Immunities: Mind-Affecting Spells, Paralysis, Sneak Attack
Breath Weapon, Fire

Ancient Blue Dragon
Str: 48, Dex: 36, Con: 32
THP +100/AC 43
Merge Armor ONLY
True Seeing, Spell Resistance 20, Damage Reduction 40/+6
Immunity Increased: Electricity 100%
Immunities: Mind-Affecting Spells, Paralysis, Sneak Attack
Breath Weapon, Lightning

Ancient Green Dragon
Str: 48, Dex: 36, Con: 32
THP +100/AC 43
Merge Armor ONLY
True Seeing, Spell Resistance 20, Damage Reduction 40/+6
Immunity Increased: Acid 100%
Immunities: Mind-Affecting Spells, Paralysis, Sneak Attack
Breath Weapon, Gas

Druid Wildshape (Animal), (Level 5)
All forms Merge Armor ONLY

Brown Bear
Str: 27, Dex: 13, Con: 19
THP +10/AC 12

Panther
Str: 16, Dex: 15, Con: 19
THP: +10/AC 16

Wolf
Str: 13, Dex: 15, Con: 15
THP +10/AC 16

Boar
Str: 15, Dex: 10, Con: 17
THP +10/AC 15

Badger
Str: 8, Dex: 17, Con: 15
THP +10/AC 18

Druid Wildshape (Animal), Improved forms (Level 12) (Infinite at lvl 22)
All forms Merge Armor ONLY

Dire Bear
Str: 31, Dex: 13, Con: 19
THP +40/AC 16

Panther
Str: 25, Dex: 15, Con: 17
THP +30/AC 20

Dire Wolf
Str: 25, Dex: 15, Con: 17
THP +30/AC 20

Dire Boar
Str: 27, Dex: 10, Con: 17
THP +20/AC 20

Dire Badger
Str: 14, Dex: 17, Con: 19
THP +20/AC 23

Druid Elemental Shape (Elemental), Huge (Level 16)
All forms Merge Armor ONLY

Fire
Str: 19, Dex: 19, Con: 26
THP -/AC 19
Damage Reduction 10/+2, Immunity Increased: Fire 100%, Immunity Decreased: Cold 50%
Immunities: Critical Hits, Disease, Mind-Affecting Spells, Paralysis, Poison, Sneak Attack
Damage Bonus: 1d8 Fire

Water
Str: 25, Dex: 22, Con: 19
THP -/AC 26
Damage Reduction 10/+2, Immunity Increased: Fire 100%
Immunities: Critical Hits, Disease, Mind-Affecting Spells, Paralysis, Poison, Sneak Attack
Drown

Earth
Str: 30, Dex: 10, Con: 22
THP -/AC 17
Damage Reduction 10/+2
Immunities: Critical Hits, Disease, Mind-Affecting Spells, Paralysis, Poison, Sneak Attack

Air
Str: 19, Dex: 30, Con: 19
THP -/AC 30
Damage Reduction 10/+2
Immunities: Critical Hits, Disease, Mind-Affecting Spells, Paralysis, Poison, Sneak Attack
Whirlwind (Pulse Attack)

Druid Elemental Shape (Elemental), Elder (Level 20) (Infinite at lvl 26)
All forms Merge Armor ONLY

Fire
Str: 23, Dex: 19, Con: 30
THP -/AC 20
Damage Reduction 15/+3, Immunity Increased: Fire 100%, Immunity Decreased: Cold 50%
Immunities: Critical Hits, Disease, Mind-Affecting Spells, Paralysis, Poison, Sneak Attack
Damage Bonus: 1d8 Fire

Water
Str: 29, Dex: 22, Con: 23
THP -/AC 26
Damage Reduction 15/+3, Immunity Increased: Fire 100%
Immunities: Critical Hits, Disease, Mind-Affecting Spells, Paralysis, Poison, Sneak Attack
Drown

Earth
Str: 34, Dex: 10, Con: 22
THP -/AC 20
Damage Reduction 15/+3
Immunities: Critical Hits, Disease, Mind-Affecting Spells, Paralysis, Poison, Sneak Attack

Air
Str: 23, Dex: 34, Con: 19
THP -/AC 32
Damage Reduction 15/+3
Immunities: Critical Hits, Disease, Mind-Affecting Spells, Paralysis, Poison, Sneak Attack
Whirlwind (Pulse Attack)
_________________
Shifter Goddess! . . . Zelle's Shifter Details, Version VEdited By ZelleQyllvan on 12/03/04 23:44

Guide from Shifter Goddess ZelleQyllvan.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par WebShaman, 19 août 2011 - 10:58 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_WhiZard]

               

WebShaman wrote...

Zella's Guide should be stored on the WayBackMachine.  Anyone tried to find it and "rescue" this resource?

I haven't but the NWN wiki now goes into further depth than Zella.  Nevertheless, it would be a good idea to attempt a rescue.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Kail Pendragon]

               

Mystery X wrote...

Wouldn't I be running afoul of the multi-class xp penalty in shifted form if I don't keep the Monk/Druid classes even?  That's what I read in the wiki (which I assume is current through 1.69).  A lot of modules- Aielund being one- use CEP- does CEP change the penalty?

Only the drow shape (an elf) suffers from the XP penalty since its favoured class is Wizard, and it's a 20% one. All other shapes have the same favoured class as humans, that is the one with most levels. And since you've got only two base classes, you are looking at no XP penalty at all, but in drow form.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Kail Pendragon]

               

Mystery X wrote...

Thinking about it, if I want to try Shifter again in another module, I may just go Druid / Shifter without a third class.  For one thing, working in the third class is tricky since a Shifter suffers the multi-class xp penalty while shifted.  For another thing, some of those early shapes (druid wildshape, shifter greater wildshapes) probably have a lot more of an impact early in the game than later in the game.

If I went Druid for 5 levels then Shifter for the next 7, I would be using the druid wildshape forms at 5th level, the wyrmlings at 6th level, harpy/gargoyle/minotaur at 8th level, drider and others at 10th level.

I'd go back to Druid for levels 13-19, meaning I'd be counting on the drow/kobold/lizardman forms through 21st level, picking up some buffs like Stoneskin, Death Ward, and Greater Stoneskin along the way.  Depending on how I stat myself initially, I'll be picking up epic shapes in the mid-20s (skipping undead because they don't appeal to me, but picking up outsider and construct, and of course eventually dragon).

Though the Monk abilities may prove to be more powerful than the extra Druid spells at the higher levels, sticking with just Druid / Shifter may give me the opportunity to actually use the shapes a lot earlier, and be relevant throughout my adventuring career rather than waiting for the different class abilities to finally come together.

Ignoring monk is just giving you abysmal AC, which with the borky way merging and shifted shapes equipment works (that is you cannot equip a thing) means getting your arse spanked big time, assuming a challenging environment. Getting 6 monk levels spread across the build and placed on tumble dumps is gonna make you stronger and it's a sure way to greatly enhance survivability and playability.

Undead shape is pretty good nd it's a real pity to ignore it. A shifter's "power" lies in versatility and ignoring one epic shape which can be acquired already at 21st lvl given the lack of a Wis prerequisite) is a severe hit to it. Just sayin'.

It is true that preepic shifters "suffers" a little. But that's the nature of the beast.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               @Web: You must have a bigger notes nest than I do!  Muchos gracias for posting the guide!

@OP:  Like Kail described a few replies earlier, shifter is not much of a support class.  It's more of a shifter-or-nothing build with a tertiary that will enhance the aspects you desire, withn monk being the overwhelming Wisdom enhancer.  However, should you prefer to specialize in several shapes and their weapons, the only way to develop several weapons at the same time is via fighter (and CoT to some extent works, too).  But with the classed Tumble benefits looming out there... well, the list of viable tertiaries shrinks to only a few.  Rogue for uncanny dodge and sneaks is yet another direction to consider. 

It's important to be aware of all the freebie attributes granted by each form (eg. True seeing for the "lowly" wyrmling, HiPS for commando, DR for many shapes, etc.) since it is a waste to select those feats unless you decide you don't like playing with the forms that grant them.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Mystery X]

               I did give up my game with the Ranger / Druid / Shifter.  Ranger just didn't add enough to Shifter; my game roles were being a weak ranger or a weak shifter.  I started a new game going Monk / Druid / Shifter.

I had been under the impression that there was a multi-class xp penalty in all shifted forms.  If it only applies to drow form, that makes a big difference.

My new challenge now is deciding when to use the forms.  Right now I'm at Monk 4 / Druid 5 / Shifter 2.  The Brown Bear shape (once/day) is actually quite advantageous over my unshifted form (equipment considered): an extra +5 attack bonus, extra +2 damage (not considering specific defenses), and only losing 2 AC.

I can't run around for a long time in this form, however, because my buffs are still on a short fuse.  Aielund uses EMS which cuts the duration of Bull's Strength and Cat's Grace in half.  So once a day I can get five hours out of Barkskin, Extended Bull's Strength, and Extended Cat's Grace.  With Search and Stealth before encounters and looting after, 5 hours doesn't really last all that long.

I figure then mainly I'd save Brown Bear to fight bosses.  Problem is, I have yet to meet a boss that goes down quickly, and fights thus far quickly turn into me burning through healing kits on my henchmen to keep them barely alive to finish the combat.  I could try stacking them up with Cure Critical potions, but they tend to take more damage in the opportunity attacks than the potions actually heal, plus when they are drinking potion after potion they aren't attacking the boss.

The wyrmling breath weapons aren't strong enough yet that I want to rely on them in combat.  However, I'm going to try scouting in a wyrmling form to see if that True Seeing can keep me out of so many ambushes.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               You are only one level away from minotaur which is one of the better melee shifter races w/full merge.  With IKD from monk 6, that form is a decent KD spammer. Things should improve rapidly after that so you have crossed one hurdle already.  Keep in mind that the wyrmling breath will continue to get stronger as you add shifter levels and I hope you are using either Expertise or Imp Expertise while attacking with breath.  It makes it MUCH easier to stand there and belch. '>

I would begin to consider feat selection and planning ahead for which form you may specialize in.  Minotaur is not as good if you take the epic form because it uses a different weapon type than the GW2 version.  But any one of the drider, commando, drow or risen lord are worth considering getting the related foci and Imp Crit feats once you've settled on a fav.  A few problems are 1) you won't know until you've played with each enough as to which is your fav and 2) you'll need to choose Martial or Exotic Prof at a monk level if you don't take spear because that is the only druid/monk weapon in their proficiencies (except maybe for a Rak, a quarterstaff IIRC) for shifter armed forms.

Sounds like you are having fun though and that is what really counts, eh? '>
               
               

               

                     Modifié par HipMaestro, 20 août 2011 - 08:25 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Mystery X]

               I screwed up the build slightly so I can't get Exotic Proficiency.  But I'm almost at the end of Act II, so I can rebuild the character to start Act III.

So far, the unarmed forms have had a lot of merit, with attack and damage comparable or better than the armed forms plus getting extra unarmed attacks.  The brown bear was my boss-fighting form until I got the manticore.

However, for most of the game I haven't had a truly special weapon.  I finally found a weapon with an elemental damage bonus about the same time I got my humanoid forms (Monk 4 / Druid 5 / Shifter 7).  The kobold commando gives me the highest attack bonus I can get, and hitting things has always been my biggest problem.  Plus the kobold commando has the highest AC, so he's a good tank.  And I haven't even tried Hide In Plain Sight yet (currently facing opponents immune to sneak attacks).  So I'm getting lots of use out of that kobold commando.

It's still a big drawback that I can't use healing kits or item abilities while shifted.  Getting unlimited shifts per form is going to be a big improvement, so I can freely use items between battles at least, though I still can't use them during (well I could shift in and out during battle, but it doesn't happen instantaneously).

This class combination also forces me to be more of an equipment packrat than usual.  Fortunately on this play-through of Aielund Act II, I was able to find a few bags of holding to buy (I missed all but one of the merchants selling them last time).

In addition to working in weapon proficiencies, I'm wondering if it would be worthwhile if I also worked in an armor proficiency for heavy armor, which would allow me a wider range of choices in terms of armor to merge into forms.  In my current game, I have found one and only one piece of equipment with permanent haste.  It's scale mail, which I can use (have to remember to remove it to buff), and that haste makes such a critical difference.  But it got me to thinking that if the only item granting me permanent haste were heavy armor, I would really be missing that heavy armor proficiency.

I'm not planning to specialize in a particular shape at least for this game.  What's appealing about the class is having a variety to use according to situation.  I'm hoping to find that I won't have one shape that's my favorite, but at least several good ones I like.

I've read that Aielund goes to about 37th level.  I'm planning Monk 4 / Druid 8 / Shifter 8 for the first 20 levels.  Then 11 of the next 12 levels will be Shifter levels so I can get the most forms (1 level of Monk in there to get more Discipline, Move Silently, and Tumble).  I know that means I won't be getting Knockdown until Level 33 with the 6th Monk level.  It just seems like though that I always have so much problem hitting opponents consistently, that I don't know how much I'd be using an attack with that -4 penalty.  I'll be getting that dragon form at 32nd level, so surely a dragon ought to be able to make the knockdowns.

Then after that I have to decide where to spend my other levels.  Druid levels give me more spells, more spell levels, and (most importantly) more duration on my buffs.  Shifter levels will give me better DC on special abilities, and a couple of more feats.  I suppose that by the time I've played through 33rd level, I ought to have a clearer idea on which I'd prefer.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               

Mystery X wrote...
So far, the unarmed forms have had a lot of merit, with attack and damage comparable or better than the armed forms plus getting extra unarmed attacks.  The brown bear was my boss-fighting form until I got the manticore.

Remember to buff with Stoneskin before morphing into an unarmed form.  You will automatically cut through DR as if a +5 weapon.  The same is true for Greater Stoneskin and Premonition except you can only help your furry pal that way with Stoneskin (targeting).

It's still a big drawback that I can't use healing kits or item abilities while shifted.  Getting unlimited shifts per form is going to be a big improvement, so I can freely use items between battles at least, though I still can't use them during (well I could shift in and out during battle, but it doesn't happen instantaneously).

Stick with potions.  All potions work with all forms except you can't heal a Risen Lord while shifted but it can use all the other potions.

In addition to working in weapon proficiencies, I'm wondering if it would be worthwhile if I also worked in an armor proficiency for heavy armor, which would allow me a wider range of choices in terms of armor to merge into forms.  In my current game, I have found one and only one piece of equipment with permanent haste.  It's scale mail, which I can use (have to remember to remove it to buff), and that haste makes such a critical difference.  But it got me to thinking that if the only item granting me permanent haste were heavy armor, I would really be missing that heavy armor proficiency.

You lost me here. 

If you already have haste on Scale mail why would you want it on plate?  Base item properties don't merge, just enhancements.

Why would you need to unequip to buff as druid?  It's divine magic, not arcane.  When the merge has completed, it is removed from the form so all the monk benefits still apply.  The only aspect that suffers is that any armed form loses the monk progression.  All other benefits like AC & speed are intact.

I've read that Aielund goes to about 37th level.  I'm planning Monk 4 / Druid 8 / Shifter 8 for the first 20 levels.  Then 11 of the next 12 levels will be Shifter levels so I can get the most forms (1 level of Monk in there to get more Discipline, Move Silently, and Tumble).  I know that means I won't be getting Knockdown until Level 33 with the 6th Monk level.  It just seems like though that I always have so much problem hitting opponents consistently, that I don't know how much I'd be using an attack with that -4 penalty.  I'll be getting that dragon form at 32nd level, so surely a dragon ought to be able to make the knockdowns.

I'd suggest getting monk to 9 to get Imp Evasion but no further.  Very handy and the 30% speed boost doesn't hurt either. It increases the playability to get regular discipline & tumble dumps like every 5-7 levels.

Then after that I have to decide where to spend my other levels.  Druid levels give me more spells, more spell levels, and (most importantly) more duration on my buffs.  Shifter levels will give me better DC on special abilities, and a couple of more feats.  I suppose that by the time I've played through 33rd level, I ought to have a clearer idea on which I'd prefer.

If you can reach level 15 druid and can fit extend spell in there somehow, Aura of Vitality is an awesome buff, one that is even cherished by clerics (a druid's big brother) taking war domain.  Trouble is without lots of druid levels, it will expire fairly quick, hence the suggestion for Extend and level 8 spells where you can slot it.

Too bad druids don't get Cat's Grace as it would really help your commando when empowered.  But that's water over the dam so look for any items that bestow +Dex when you use that form.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Mystery X]

               

You lost me here. 

If you already have haste on Scale mail why would you want it on plate?  Base item properties don't merge, just enhancements.

I could find heavy armor with enhancements I don't have on any other item.  I don't think I have enough feats though to spare, though.

Why would you need to unequip to buff as druid?  It's divine magic, not arcane.

It's either from EMS or module-specific, but druids can't cast spells while wearing metal armor in this module.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Mystery X, 22 août 2011 - 01:01 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_MrZork]

               IIRC, Aielund has  boots (and other items) that cast level 10 haste (lasts twice as long as the potion). That can be useful for pre-fight buffing and can be applied to your associates as well. I think there was hasted Ranger armor as well, but that won't help you on this build.

I echo Hip's comment on the value of druid levels for buffing. You will likely get some use out of Owl's Insight (boost to monk AC, stunning fist DC) and Heal. And, you will need an eighth level slot for maximized Ice Storm (unlimited/day with rakshasa form).

Also, regarding improved knockdown, some forms are large creatures (and dragons are huge), so they actually hit as well or better on KD attempts as they do on normal melee.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Kail Pendragon]

               

Mystery X wrote...

It's either from EMS or module-specific, but druids can't cast spells while wearing metal armor in this module.

You can turn EMS off (use the empty hak) if desired. EMS is a bunch of poorly documented modifications, many of which of questionable merit.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               

Mystery X wrote...

Why would you need to unequip to buff as druid?  It's divine magic, not arcane.

It's either from EMS or module-specific, but druids can't cast spells while wearing metal armor in this module.

Hmmm... that is damn important to know.  Makes a huge diifference.  So I suppose Autostill has no bearing on helping it then?

edit: *lol* Kail had this covered.  Should be just a tad more patient. '>
               
               

               

                     Modifié par HipMaestro, 22 août 2011 - 02:07 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Mystery X]

               I've discovered another challenge of playing a Shifter: Henchman and friendly NPCs who "help" my by casting Heal and Restoration spells on me, un-shifting me.

My henchmen have advanced options relating to tactics, but there are no options to tell my cleric henchman to just don't heal me.  I'm getting rid of her at first opportunity, though I'd feel bad about abandoning her in the middle of a desert wasteland at the moment.

During the final battle with the central villain in Act III, some helpful friendly cleric nearby who was not a henchman cast Lesser Restoration on me just as I engaged the villain, and I have no idea what prompted that.  I wonder if the AI sees my shifted shape as a negative effect that needs curing.