Looking for an assassin build

[Legacy_Kail Pendragon]

               

C Barchuk wrote...
I've also been under the impression for a while now that epic dodge is a must for any dex rogue/assassin. This is just from the many posts I've read but maybe that's not the truly the case.

I won't deny that ED is something big. Being a dexer unfortunately is not enough to qualify for ED (while instead beign a STR based build is enough to qualify for Dev Crit) since one needs class specific feats. This means conversely that not all dexers will be epic dodgers (and assassin has no access to IE and Defensive Roll unfortunately) and yet, lo and behold, there are efficient dex based non epic dodging builds to be played and enjoyed.

In the assassin case, if you want ED you have to choose between getting 13 Rogue, 10 SD, and Monk 9/SD 5 if you want to keep a good amount of Assn levels to pump up the DA DC. The 10 SD choice implies Ranger as third class for classed stealth skills to qualify early enough if you want to keep a full BAB class in. Otherwise Bard and Rogue but no full BAB there. Monk 9/SD 5 already fills the two other class slots and has no full BAB class in (but has monk for the extra APR). Rogue 13 leaves little room for something like FTR, but not much without "compromising" the DA DC.

So an epic dodging assassin can surely be built (and enjoyed), but it has its own tradeoffs. If you forego ED, then you get more options at your disposal which will bring tehir own advanatges without hurting the DA DC (in the build I posted eg, you get a nice AB both ranged and melee, EWS, extra speed, extra APR both melee and ranged, a nice unbuffed DA DC of 40, etc. of course at the cost of ED... this is just to illustrate one example of giving up something to get something else back). Now it's up to you to decide what to play and besides you can chose to play as many builds as you want given the replayability of many modules and the sheer amount of modules available on the vault.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Kail Pendragon]

               

WebShaman wrote...

TBH - excepting a very rare Environment, the Wiz 36/Rng 2/Ass 2 is going to be your most powerful build, bar none.

The Rng/Assn MMM is just awesome and it is so all across the levels. I prefer the Rng 1/Ass 4 split (I ignore the discipline dump given the generally availability of KD immunity), but details apart, it's a rocking machine of destruction.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Kail Pendragon, 15 août 2011 - 12:08 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_C Barchuk]

               

WebShaman wrote...

TBH - excepting a very rare Environment, the Wiz 36/Rng 2/Ass 2 is going to be your most powerful build, bar none.

NOTHING can stop it.  You will have the full casting power of a Wizard, combined with melee ability and Death Attack that is basically unlimited (Wand of Invis...yup, or just create scrolls with Invis on them).

SD is a great addition, no doubt about it, but you have to fill the prereqs, of course.  Expensive.

For someone who does not enjoy playing casters, probably not the best choice, however.

I also vehemently object to the nasty label applied to Shia in this thread.  A new "low" here.  Totally uncalled for.

@ Shia - ass as sin.

Hehe...

I mean this character looks like just a plain wizard. What's the point in having only 2 levels of assassin? Death Attack DC will be low as well death attack damage will be low. Not a very good assassin in my opinion. Wizard...yes, assassin...no. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure this character is the most powerful as are most casters are in the NWN and BG series. I don't mind combining a little bit of wizard into the mix but not as the main class. I guess I have a hard time picturing a predominately wizard dual wielding in wizard robes. I guess I'm more of a 2nd edition guy in many aspects where I like my characters specialized instead of the swiss army knife approach that 3rd edition brings though I do like 3rd edition in many ways too. I appreciate the suggestion though and will try it out in the future for sure.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_C Barchuk]

               

Kail Pendragon wrote...

C Barchuk wrote...
I've also been under the impression for a while now that epic dodge is a must for any dex rogue/assassin. This is just from the many posts I've read but maybe that's not the truly the case.

I won't deny that ED is something big. Being a dexer unfortunately is not enough to qualify for ED (while instead beign a STR based build is enough to qualify for Dev Crit) since one needs class specific feats. This means conversely that not all dexers will be epic dodgers (and assassin has no access to IE and Defensive Roll unfortunately) and yet, lo and behold, there are efficient dex based non epic dodging builds to be played and enjoyed.

In the assassin case, if you want ED you have to choose between getting 13 Rogue, 10 SD, and Monk 9/SD 5 if you want to keep a good amount of Assn levels to pump up the DA DC. The 10 SD choice implies Ranger as third class for classed stealth skills to qualify early enough if you want to keep a full BAB class in. Otherwise Bard and Rogue but no full BAB there. Monk 9/SD 5 already fills the two other class slots and has no full BAB class in (but has monk for the extra APR). Rogue 13 leaves little room for something like FTR, but not much without "compromising" the DA DC.

So an epic dodging assassin can surely be built (and enjoyed), but it has its own tradeoffs. If you forego ED, then you get more options at your disposal which will bring tehir own advanatges without hurting the DA DC (in the build I posted eg, you get a nice AB both ranged and melee, EWS, extra speed, extra APR both melee and ranged, a nice unbuffed DA DC of 40, etc. of course at the cost of ED... this is just to illustrate one example of giving up something to get something else back). Now it's up to you to decide what to play and besides you can chose to play as many builds as you want given the replayability of many modules and the sheer amount of modules available on the vault.

Hey Kail, thanks for the feedback brother. Your right. I guess I'm trying to make an assassin or rogue build that has all the angles covered with no weakspots but that just isn't going to happen. On that note I'm going to try out your suggested build as well. Yea at first I kept telling myself its got to have epic dodge!:DBut now I think I'm starting to get what your saying better. So I'll try out Low's build, yours and then the other assassin build I found there in the archives and see how they do. Is Halls of Advanced Training still considered the best character builder?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Kail Pendragon]

               

C Barchuk wrote...

WebShaman wrote...

TBH - excepting a very rare Environment, the Wiz 36/Rng 2/Ass 2 is going to be your most powerful build, bar none.

NOTHING can stop it.  You will have the full casting power of a Wizard, combined with melee ability and Death Attack that is basically unlimited (Wand of Invis...yup, or just create scrolls with Invis on them).

SD is a great addition, no doubt about it, but you have to fill the prereqs, of course.  Expensive.

For someone who does not enjoy playing casters, probably not the best choice, however.

I also vehemently object to the nasty label applied to Shia in this thread.  A new "low" here.  Totally uncalled for.

@ Shia - ass as sin.

Hehe...

I mean this character looks like just a plain wizard. What's the point in having only 2 levels of assassin? Death Attack DC will be low as well death attack damage will be low. Not a very good assassin in my opinion. Wizard...yes, assassin...no. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure this character is the most powerful as are most casters are in the NWN and BG series. I don't mind combining a little bit of wizard into the mix but not as the main class. I guess I have a hard time picturing a predominately wizard dual wielding in wizard robes. I guess I'm more of a 2nd edition guy in many aspects where I like my characters specialized instead of the swiss army knife approach that 3rd edition brings though I do like 3rd edition in many ways too. I appreciate the suggestion though and will try it out in the future for sure.

I'll give you my take on the Wiz/Assn/Rng since I'm one that appreciates the build. It is evidently a wizard first and foremost. But it's a special kind of wizard, one that is not afraid to go into battle (buffed up of course) to get rid of mobs and keeps its spells for when it really counts. You may be familiar with the Melee Mage build and character concept by Webshaman; this is a multiclass melee mage (aka MMM) which is a wizard build played melee mage style with some slight and of course advantageous multiclassing.

In the case of the Wiz/Rgr/Assn the DA DC is low but not too low and it's very useful to paralyze mobs and even bosses on a roll of 1 (26 DC unbuffed, 32 with capped Int which is easily the case). Assn also brings classed tumble, UMD and set/disable trap and the build turns out to be a pretty powerful and versatile one. But aye, it's not really an assassin build as one ordinarly means it. It's a melee mage with some spice. You can see my take on it here
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               

Kail Pendragon wrote...
I'll give you my take on the Wiz/Assn/Rng since I'm one that appreciates the build. It is evidently a wizard first and foremost. But it's a special kind of wizard,

Evidently a case where the self appointed forum police keep making build suggestings completely counter to the OP request and that is fine.

But If I suggest Rogue over Assassin, I am completely ignoring him.

Kail Pendragon wrote...

]Which is actually and firstly my
build too since it was me to quickly roll it up for the OP as a
guideline to be optimized

Actually it was only a slight revision on the link I provided to ECB halfling. But since you saw it as your own, I now see why you got testy when I improved it.'>
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lowlander, 15 août 2011 - 02:40 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Kail Pendragon]

               

Lowlander wrote...

Kail Pendragon wrote...
I'll give you my take on the Wiz/Assn/Rng since I'm one that appreciates the build. It is evidently a wizard first and foremost. But it's a special kind of wizard,

Evidently a case where the self appointed forum police keep making build suggestings completely counter to the OP request and that is fine.

But If I suggest Rogue over Assassin, I am completely ignoring him.

Poor strawman fool, ignoring the fact I answered the OP who had questions about that build. Your delusional mind keeps making you believe you ar ethe OP by any chance? Go and apologize to Shia rather then making a fool of yourself once more.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Kail Pendragon]

               

Lowlander wrote...


Actually it was only a slight revision on the link I provided to ECB halfling. But since you saw it as your own, I now see why you got testy when I improved it.'>

Poor idiotic moron, me testy about improvements to a build? And one I made in 5 minutes without consulting any reference? I pointed out all the factors involved and never said your +40 HPs through toughness acquisition (and the +1 BAB -1 AB from the loss of EP compensation)  was not an improvement. But evidently a strawman lover like you cannot see the truth.

And that is my own build since it got copied and pasted rom the ECB forums, no matter whether it got done before by some other well thinking mind (not yours evidently)... I dont' expect an idiot like you to understand such subtleties though. Go back to the scum you belong to.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               

Kail Pendragon wrote...

 I pointed out all the factors involved and never said your +40 HPs through toughness acquisition (and the +1 BAB -1 AB from the loss of EP compensation)  was not an improvement. But evidently a strawman lover like you cannot see the truth.

Kail you are going off the rails in your attempts to be insult first, think never.

Losing Epic Prowes and the +1 for moving level 8 pre epic cancel each other out. You are left with +40 HPs at no cost.

How is free +40 HPs not an improvement? In a world where Kail is always right and 40 = 0? That must be a fun place.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Kail Pendragon]

               

Lowlander wrote...

Kail Pendragon wrote...

 I pointed out all the factors involved and never said your +40 HPs through toughness acquisition (and the +1 BAB -1 AB from the loss of EP compensation)  was not an improvement. But evidently a strawman lover like you cannot see the truth.

Kail you are going off the rails in your attempts to be insult first, think never.

Losing Epic Prowes and the +1 for moving level 8 pre epic cancel each other out. You are left with +40 HPs at no cost.

How is free +40 HPs not an improvement? In a world where Kail is always right and 40 = 0? That must be a fun place.

Read fella... if you can ':D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

In a world where Lowlander is:

a) unable to read/comprehend
so lost in his own strawman arguments it's actually tragic and comic at the same time
c) a wimp lashing out to sweet ladies, one who would get his arse kicked so hard in the real world vs the internet just for one of those episodes he'd never forget his entire life
d) the delusional OP of every single thread
e) the delusional hero and savior of forumites asking for help
f) delusionally smart

it's fun to live and it's also the real world.

And congrats for making an even bigger fool of yourself... once more! '>:O:O:O:O:O:O:O:O:O
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               You got me on that one.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_C Barchuk]

               I'm going to take a wild guess here and assume you guys aren't friends. Anyways, just wanted to thank everyone for all the feedback. Kail, and Low I appreciate the builds you guys took the time to type out for me. Very cool and they look top-notch.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Elhanan]

               "Looking for an assassin build"

If one is found, it probably was not a good stealther anyway.... *bazinga*
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Elhanan, 15 août 2011 - 05:52 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Kail Pendragon]

               

Lowlander wrote...

You got me on that one.

Dude finally some sense! '>

By the way, it doesn't matter from whom an improvement to a build comes as far as I am regarded. An improvement is an improvement and I am always grateful to be shown one (and besides your improvement is not just +40 HPs but also +1 Fort save, in the FTR 8/Rogue 12 split, at the cost of -1 Ref which is already a high enough save so you actually underestimated yourself).
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Kail Pendragon]

               

C Barchuk wrote...

I'm going to take a wild guess here and assume you guys aren't friends. Anyways, just wanted to thank everyone for all the feedback. Kail, and Low I appreciate the builds you guys took the time to type out for me. Very cool and they look top-notch.

Come on, nothing is really serious on the internet. We may not be friends (we have never met or at least be in touch outside of these boards), but then again we can't be tought of as enemies either (which would mean that both me and Low would be two huge fools for getting upset for such trivialities). Well, at least I feel that way

And you are welcome, and sorry for the quarreling in your thread. And if you want to explore the realm of Str based Assassins just ask. The first that comes to mind is a masterpiece by the legendary Dwarflord '>