Looking for an assassin build

[Legacy_C Barchuk]

               Well I'm definitely not as knowledgeable on this game as you guys are. I wish I was. Either way, I'm excited to return back to this great game. I've always been a big assassin fan but I've never had much luck in creating a potent build using it. I've also been under the impression for a while now that epic dodge is a must for any dex rogue/assassin. This is just from the many posts I've read but maybe that's not the truly the case. I would still like to go the assassin route but it just seems that the only build I could go with, that still picks up epic dodge, would be the Assassin/Rogue/Shadow Dancer build which I like alot. But as you guys pointed out, it would rock until I came across badies immune to sneak attack. It would probably be frustrating at that point. That's why I figured the current Fighter/Rogue/Shadow Dancer would be better. Ultimately I want take this character all the way to level 40 if I can. I'm really excited about doing it. I just got the game finally working and now just trying to get my toon down.
Kail, I definitely appreciate your suggested build. I failed to mention that and I apologize. It looks fantastic as well. I really get into the role playing aspect of my character but i do want him to be powerful at the same time. Why couldn't NWN1 have the Epic Precision feat from NWN2 and then this whole sneak attack thing wouldn't be a problem...lol.
Stat-wise I originally was going to go with:

STR 10
DEX 20
CON 10
INT14
WIS 10
CHA 8

I'm totally okay with going with whatever you guys suggest. I thought the 20 dex would be a good idea but whatever is fine. You fine folks obviously know alot more than I do. So at any rate it appeared that the better assassin builds required a STR-based approach which I'm just not really fond of even if it is overall better. I just don't picture assassins wearing heavy armor, shields, and using a two-handed sword. I'm still open to suggestions but I guess I'm confused now what constitutes an effective assassin build.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par C Barchuk, 15 août 2011 - 03:07 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Shia Luck]

               

Lowlander wrote...



So again I provided exactly what he asked for,  and no one else has.

Exactly what he asked for?  Let's look at his request and your answer shall we?

C Barchuk wrote...

Getting ready to run the OC followed by
the 2 expansions. I'm wanting to run as assassin that's playable from
the gound up. Would love some suggestions. Thanks guys.

Lowlander wrote...

I don't play assassins because essentially they are evil Rogues with prerequisites. ...

.... without constraints I would be a Ranger/Rogue/Fighter, one of my favorite stealth combat builds. Combining Rogue skils, Fighter EWS, and Ranger FE/BoE...

And Lo and behold we are now discussing a ftr/rog... because you spam it in it every build thread

LOL... if you actually made your own builds you would know it takes time....  Maybe Kail was a little late in posting an interesting assasin build but custom building takes time, .... something you would know nothing about since you constantly claim to only play on easy, never in epic levels, and only ftr or ranger / rog.

At least Kail attempted to respond to the op's intial request instead of just saying "ftr/rog is the bestest"

You did after all claim in the weakest class thread

Lowlander wrote...

I would also vote Bard. Nice support
class with Bard Song, but likewise I have never included Bard levels
except as a prerequisite.

So you have these huge opinions with absolutely no experience. All you do is play fighter rogue. Congratulations on working out how AB works but FFS you got to take into account playstyle and environment and the fact that people may want to play things that are not optimum but are still fun and viable.


And really... this was your first post

Lowlander wrote...

Shia have a chill pill.

and then you edited it to say ....

Lowlander wrote...

Shia Pet have a chill pill.

You sexist. How low can you go. Editing your post to include a remark about my gender because you can't argue with me about building. FFS ... You really are simply a desperate troll. I feel sorry for you.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               

Shia Luck wrote...
Exactly what he asked for?  Let's look at his request and your answer shall we?

Ah Shia Pet (a take on Chia Pet BTW) the master of quoting out of context. Yes I pointed out that I don't play assassins.

Then in all the middle stuff, I posted the Assassin builds. Only at the last sentence did I mention what I liked. I didn't say he should play it. It was Ranger/Ftr/Rogue BTW. No where did I offer  such a build.

You just came at me looking for a fight. That is why I decided to Dub you Shiapet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chia_Pet
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lowlander, 15 août 2011 - 03:29 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Shia Luck]

               

C Barchuk wrote...

 I've always been a big assassin fan but I've never had much luck in creating a potent build using it. I've also been under the impression for a while now that epic dodge is a must for any dex rogue/assassin.

It's a major feat, no doubt. But you don;t have to have it. For example monk speed means you can easily escape any opponent who is giving you trouble, and monk gives a lot of other early benefits, cleave being a huge one, not to mention the extra attack from flurry of blows. Unarmaed is also an option with monk and while it can be not so good in HotU (cause it cant be upgraded), against undead and In SOF it becomes incredibly useful because bludgeoning damage is the only type not resisted by things like skellies. And wherever you go, skellies are the most common crit immune enemy.

C Barchuk wrote...

So at any rate it appeared that the better assassin builds required a STR-based approach which I'm just not really fond of even if it is overall better. I just don't picture assassins wearing heavy armor, shields, and using a two-handed sword. I'm still open to suggestions but I guess I'm confused now what constitutes an effective assassin build.

I disagree, there are good assassin builds focusing on strength but the best ones are dex IMHO... and I agree it makes much more sense RP wise.

I would also like to apologise for the the way your thread has been somewhat taken over by the infighting.... Trolls need fire and acid sometimes. Feel free to conduct your own search to prove veracity of any claim and while you are free to dismiss Lowlander (please acid anf fire lol) and myself , Kail has been an epic builder for longer than I ever played the game. Always listen to his advice. you don;t have to take it but always listen.

I am out of here now before I get another demeaning sexist comment thrown at me by a troll and I lose my temper. *grin*

Have fun '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               

C Barchuk wrote...

Stat-wise I originally was going to go with:

STR 10
DEX 20
CON 10
INT14
WIS 10
CHA 8

Well it may be a challenge to offer advice as Shia seem more interested in fighting than advice, so there will be interruptions.

But I will try anyway. I would prefer more balanced starting stats, because you are going to be hit a lot  before epic levels.

STR: 11
DEX: 19
CON: 14
WIS: 8
INT: 14
CHA: 8

These stats plus toughness are worth and additional 45 HPs by level 15,  120 HPs by level 40. It is very significant.

The point of fighter (or equiv) in the build is four fold:
More Attack bonus: Meaning you hit more often.
More Attacks: If you don't have any fighter (or equiv) levels, you get 3 attacks/round, adding at least 4 fighter levels gets you 4 attacks/round.
More damage:  WS/EWS could be a major source of your damage.
Extra Feats for dual wielding: (Three feats for full dual wielding or Free from 9th level ranger).


Dexxers are weaker  in straight up combat and it will be painful without this when fighting sneak immunes on the way up.

Personally I would dump the Self Conceals and try to keep Epic Dodge.  You can get Epic Dodge with  from Shadow Dancer 10 as well.  So you could be an Assassin/SD with Epic Dodge. The challenge becomes the starter class. Fighter would be great to have in there for reasons aboved but you will get killed on skill points trying to make the pre requistes. 

You could go Fighter/Rogue/Assassin if you gave up SD. Or you can go Rogue/Assassin/SD but it will be tough slog until you get uber weapons.

Questions/Decisions?

Edit:
Without further direction from you, I am back to suggesting putting in the your minimum desired level of assassin into the epic build search, along with elf and halfling as your race of choice (more likely to get dex builds):

http://home.comcast....wk/buildsearch/

Now this should give you a decent starter set of High level, dex based Assassins, to at least pick one as a starting point.

More advice than this might set off the sprout covered cow again...
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lowlander, 15 août 2011 - 04:27 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Shia Luck]

               

Lowlander wrote...

Ah Shia Pet (a take on Chia Pet BTW) the master of quoting out of context.

Luckily for you, my american friends on YIM noticed the chia pet reference, and have informed me about it. They also say that there is no relevance to quoting out of context and it can only be taken as an insult.... so maybe not sexist, just rude? ...
 
I fail to see how that is better, personally.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Krazy Solo]

               Hmm...  I wonder why no one mention the Bard/Assassin/Shadowdancer build?  The build essentially get all the rogue skill point total and then some while getting Epic Dodge and having spellcasting as back up versus Crit Immune.  Even if the Op doesn't like casting spell could easily still fight crit immune with bard song.  I appologize if I don't recall the exact build off hand.

Also I might be wrong but you only need 7 lvls of Shadowdancer to qualify for Epic Dodge.  At lvl 5 you get defensive roll, Improve Evasion at lvl 7.  I could be mistaken on this but I thought I mention it.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               

ChiaDuck wrote...

Luckily for you, my american friends on YIM noticed the chia pet reference, and have informed me about it. They also say that there is no relevance to quoting out of context and it can only be taken as an insult.... so maybe not sexist, just rude? ...
 

Luckily? You were going to call the thought police for referring to you as Pet??

FWIW in online anon forums, I just assume everyone is the "comic book guy" from the Simpsons, so I don't think it sexists terms. I was definitely thinking sprout covered clay cow... but now that I see they have Chia Ducks...
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lowlander, 15 août 2011 - 05:02 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_C Barchuk]

               Low, I really appreciate the help man for sure and that goes for everybody. I appreciate all this great feedback. I went ahead and looked up some ranger/assassin/? builds since ranger does seem to go with assassin the best. A build I found, that looks pretty good, is:

http://home.comcast....1533.html#page1

So I'm think of trying that out or still going with the Fighter/Rogue/SD that you helped me with. Both look like pretty sweet builds. The assassin build doesn't have epic dodge or HiPS but it still looks like a very cool, flavorful build. I might use a character builder and make both at level 40 and see how they run before starting the OC. Just curious, what is the best character builder mod for testing out builds? Is it still Halls of Advanced Training? That was the one I remember. Shia I appreciate you trying to keep the assassin in the game so to speak. Hopefully I'll like this one. But I like both builds at this point so now I just have to decide. I guess that's the a good problem to have '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Kail Pendragon]

               

Lowlander wrote...

Kail. Regarding the above. It is generally common builder courtesy to mention experience point penalties as they are a downside and often not immediately obvious.  It isn't just me that avoids exp penalties. Many people don't want be a level behind because of a build choice.

And you don't get the point once more: who cares you hate XP penalties? Don't get me wrong, you did well to point it out since I forgot but really do we have to be updates about all you hate/despise/loath at every chance?

And neither the suggested build did.

The original halfling build we were tweaking had 12 con, and he didn't update the stats, so I wasn't sure.

The last build he posted had 19 Dex and 14 Con at the start. Even if he didn't post th eupdated stat 19 starting Dex is evident from the fact that at the fist stat increase it goes to 20 and 14 Con is the only way that build could have 362  HPs. Of course I have a further source of insight about that build but then again one just needs to be able to read and to be able to do some very basic math...

It's much lesss than you think. Just barely enough to get the main things, but another 50+ points could still easily be spent.

My build

Which is actually and firstly my build too since it was me to quickly roll it up for the OP as a guideline to be optimized '>

has 368 skill points and it is just barely enough. What does that make your suggested build above with a paltry 281 skill points? '>

With even less skillpoints than necessary. That build is just a suggestion for a "different" assassin build with good performance on the field (since the OP asked about an assassin build), I never claimed it to be anything else than what it is nor for it to be better than any other.

Naturally one could always enjoy more skill points, but 368 is a nice healthy amount.

Aye it is. And yet, one ends up missing something here and there. Skillpoints are never enough, ah! (yes, it's an hyperbole)
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Kail Pendragon, 15 août 2011 - 11:38 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Kail Pendragon]

               Double post
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Kail Pendragon, 15 août 2011 - 11:30 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Kail Pendragon]

               

Lowlander wrote...

Shia Luck wrote...

Jumping on every build request thread
and suggesting a ftr/rog or ranger/rog and ignoring the OP is quite a
different way of doing things, no?

Shia Pet have a chill pill. You are having reading comprehension problems again.

Me don't like for sweet Shia to be so addressed. An apology is necessary here.

I am providing builds/tweaking to the original posters request. At each step I try to provide exactly what he asked for.

First he wanted a Dex based Assassin/SD, and that is exactly what I provided (several Ranger/Assassin/SD splits) as the discussion progressed he made it clear that Epic Dodge was the priority. Kail posting another Assassin/Monk at that point really had nothing to do with the Original poster because he had clearly moved on to wanting Epic Dodger and even before that he wanted SD not monk.

And so let the OP talk for himself. You are not the OP, you see? If I choose to address a previous request of the OP, he will be the one to judge whether my post is something he finds useful or not, with no need for you to state what you hate/despise/loathe and bs like that.

So again I provided exactly what he asked for, an Epic Dodger,  and no one else has. 

Can we get a statue built for the hero Lowlander?

I don't see how you can see this as ignoring the OP, when I have been in discussion with him, and providing exactly what he asked for at each step. ??

You are not the OP dude. So talk to the OP, make your suggestions, possibly point out features that have not been evidenced in other builds. But leave out the strawman and pointless arguments evidencing lack of logical reasoning you are so accustomed to.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Kail Pendragon, 15 août 2011 - 12:49 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Kail Pendragon]

               

C Barchuk wrote...

Kail, I definitely appreciate your suggested build. I failed to mention that and I apologize...

No worries dude, I just suggested a build which may be of your interest and that had not been already addressed. The FTR/Rogue/SD also is a nice build as are many others. Point is in this game there are a lot of nice builds to play, some will be more powerful, some less but the fun factor i seasy to achieve. Also, each build has its own way to be played, its strength and weaknesses.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Kail Pendragon]

               

Krazy Solo wrote...

Also I might be wrong but you only need 7 lvls of Shadowdancer to qualify for Epic Dodge.  At lvl 5 you get defensive roll, Improve Evasion at lvl 7.  I could be mistaken on this but I thought I mention it.

Lvl 7 grants slippery mind, it's lvl 10 to grant IE.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_WebShaman]

               TBH - excepting a very rare Environment, the Wiz 36/Rng 2/Ass 2 is going to be your most powerful build, bar none.

NOTHING can stop it.  You will have the full casting power of a Wizard, combined with melee ability and Death Attack that is basically unlimited (Wand of Invis...yup, or just create scrolls with Invis on them).

SD is a great addition, no doubt about it, but you have to fill the prereqs, of course.  Expensive.

For someone who does not enjoy playing casters, probably not the best choice, however.

I also vehemently object to the nasty label applied to Shia in this thread.  A new "low" here.  Totally uncalled for.

@ Shia - ass as sin.

Hehe...
               
               

               

                     Modifié par WebShaman, 15 août 2011 - 11:57 .