Looking for an assassin build

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               That looks really good to me. My change would take fighter to level 8 before 20.

That would be +1 BAB and one more feat. I would move Mobiltiy to the fighter feat and take Toughness as the Level 18 general feat.  That would give +40 HP by the end.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_C Barchuk]

               Man, thanks again. Does it matter what level I take that 7th and 8th level of fighter at? Heck I guess I could just take them at level 10 and 11 just to get them out of the way. What do ya think?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shia Luck]

               Do note that if you have a high tumble score (which you will) mobility is not an especially needed feat,  (you will not need mobility playing SoU/ hotU etc... it is only really in PvP when a dex build needs to be concerned about it). Toughness is also pretty useless when your character specialises in not getting hit in the first place. 40 hp at lvl 40 can be done by a Mass Effect space Hamster or a Dragon Age squirrel at lvl 40. but only if they can hit you.

The advantage of having a ftr lvl that gives a feat in epic levels is the increased choice of actually useful feats and contray to what Lowlander says, moving ftr 8 to pre epic does not give you an extra feat unless you sacrifice a rogue level and therefore sacrifice sneak attack damage. Do remember that when attacking from stealth your AB is effectively increased massively because the enemy is flat footed and you get AB bonus when flanking, so AB is not the be all and end all of this type of build. A loss of 1 AB to get a useful feat instead of a fairly useless feat is not such a bad tradeoff for a sneaking dex rogue.

IMHO what you should be looking at is how to start on DEX 20 so as to get epic dodge and SCV earlier, but you'll need to post the starting stats before we can consider that. With any rogue /assasin build the skill points are very important too so no way to say how effective or versatile this could be without knowing that.

have fun '>

EDIT:  I am still advocating the lack of need for SD, and supporting Assassin in the environment you will play in. I am well aware of the need for mobility as a class requisite for SD
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Shia Luck, 15 août 2011 - 01:19 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               I would trade 1d6 sneak damage for +1AB and 40 more hit points. You are still going to get hit and take damage so more HPs are always good.

Mobility is Pre-Req for Shadowdancer.

I will try some tweaking... and get back to you...

Edit:
After some tweaking. AB is the same, as is sneak attack damage, only Hit points increase by 40, so consider it freebee hitpoints. Will post shortly...
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lowlander, 15 août 2011 - 01:38 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Shia Luck]

               

Lowlander wrote...

I would trade 1d6 sneak damage for +1AB and 40 more hit points.

As we proved in the prestige class thread ... is always good to mention what you lose and not just focus on the positives. '> , especially when giving advice.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Kail Pendragon]

               

Lowlander wrote...

Above build doesn't have epic dodge requested

Oh man, you figured that out ? I'm amazed! From what exactly? Maybe from the fact there's no Epic Dodge written down? Or from the lack of classes able to fill up the prereqs? Besides it was expressed as a possible wish in a further post down the thread so...

and  EXP penalty from level 14 onward. Some don't mind, but I hate that...

And since you are not the OP, who cares?

But again most are likely strength builds. Simple reason is that if you are going to have an Epic Dex build, not having Epic Dodge, seems like a huge waste and Assassin won't give you that.

And so one will keep limiting himself unnecessarily instead of enjoying the many different builds that can be played.

And to the OP, SC is overrated. If you play somewhere where Impr Invisibility is easily available you ar ebetter off with the consumables than with the feats. High prerequisites, late acquisition (which in turn means you'll have to rely on consumables until you max it out) and BF squaring it (which means anything below SCIV is of little to almost no use) don't make it an optimum choice in a typical mid magic environment.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Kail Pendragon]

               

Lowlander wrote...

That looks really good to me. My change would take fighter to level 8 before 20.

That would be +1 BAB and one more feat. I would move Mobiltiy to the fighter feat and take Toughness as the Level 18 general feat.  That would give +40 HP by the end.

And lose one epic feat (EP) so that you get -1 AB. No AB increase therefore, just to be clear.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Kail Pendragon, 15 août 2011 - 01:49 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               My tweaks....

Intermixed the fighter/rogue levels more, so you are never long between Rogue levels, so your skills never lag.
Pulled back fighter to level 9 pre-epic to get toughness, +1 AB. I sacrificed one Epic fighter feat: Epic Prowess which is is +1 AB, so they cancel out.  So basically a win on Toughness for free.

I also stop fighter on odd level pre-epic, so I can take EWS immediately take EWS on level 21. Benefit is EWS (+6 damage) as soon as possible.

I didn't go to 20 Dex so I could keep Con/Int at 14.

You get potential of 402 HP max.
368 skill points, which I did not distribute, But this is a LOT.


STR: 11
DEX: 19 (32)
CON: 14
WIS: 8
INT: 14
CHA: 8

Halfling: (Fearless, Good Aim, Lucky, Skill Affinity: Listen, Skill Affinity: Move Silently, Small Stature)
01: Rogue(1): Ambidexterity
02: Fighter(1): Weapon Finesse
03: Fighter(2): Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus: Dagger
04: Rogue(2): DEX+1, {Evasion}, (DEX=20)
05: Fighter(3)
06: Fighter(4): Knockdown, Weapon Specialization: Dagger
07: Rogue(3): {Uncanny Dodge I}
08: Fighter(5): DEX+1, (DEX=21)
09: Rogue(4): Blind Fight
10: Fighter(6): Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
11: Rogue(5)
12: Fighter(7): DEX+1, Improved Knockdown, (DEX=22)
13: Rogue(6)
14: Fighter(: Dodge
15: Rogue(7): Toughness
16: Rogue(: DEX+1, (DEX=23)
17: Rogue(9)
18: Rogue(10): Mobility, Improved Evasion
19: Rogue(11)
20: Fighter(9): DEX+1, (DEX=24)
21: Fighter(10): Epic Weapon Focus: Dagger, Epic Weapon Specialization: Dagger
22: Shadowdancer(1): {Hide in Plain Sight}
23: Rogue(12)
24: Rogue(13): DEX+1, Great Dexterity I, Defensive Roll, (DEX=26)
25: Rogue(14)
26: Rogue(15)
27: Rogue(16): Great Dexterity II, Epic Dodge, (DEX=27)
28: Rogue(17): DEX+1, (DEX=28)
29: Rogue(18)
30: Rogue(19): Great Dexterity III, Crippling Strike, (DEX=29)
31: Rogue(20)
32: Rogue(21): DEX+1, (DEX=30)
33: Rogue(22): Self Concealment I
34: Rogue(23)
35: Rogue(24): Self Concealment II
36: Rogue(25): DEX+1, Self Concealment III, (DEX=31)
37: Rogue(26)
38: Rogue(27)
39: Rogue(28): Self Concealment IV, Self Concealment V
40: Rogue(29): DEX+1, (DEX=32)

Hitpoints: 402
Skillpoints: 368
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 22/16/32
Saving Throw bonuses: Traps: +5, Fear: +2
BAB: 27
AB (max, naked): 42 (melee), 40 (ranged)
AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 30/32
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lowlander, 15 août 2011 - 02:01 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               

Kail Pendragon wrote...

And since you are not the OP, who cares?

He might.

Since as Shia points out, we should list the downsides, you should at least mention you have an Exp penalty in your build. It is a downside.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lowlander, 15 août 2011 - 01:54 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Kail Pendragon]

               

Lowlander wrote...

My tweaks.... Basically I pulled back fighter to level 9 pre-epic to get toughness, +1 AB. I sacrificed one Epic fighter feat: Epic Prowess which is is +1 AB. So basically a win on Toughness for free.

I also stop fighter on odd level pre-epic, so I can take EWS immediately take EWS on level 21. Benefit is EWS (+6 damage) as soon as possible.

Disadvantage is-1 Ref save compared to FTR 6/Rogue 14 and -1 Fort save compared to FTR 8/Rogue 12. -1 Fort is not worth earlier EWS IMO.

I didn't go to 20 Dex so I could keep Con at 14.

And neither the suggested build did.

You get potential of 402 HP max.
368 skill points, which I did not distribute, But this is a LOT.

It's much lesss than you think. Just barely enough to get the main things, but another 50+ points could still easily be spent.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Kail Pendragon]

               

Lowlander wrote...

Kail Pendragon wrote...

And since you are not the OP, who cares?

He might.

Since as Shia points out, we should list the downsides, you should at least mention you have an Exp penalty in your build. It is a downside.

You should learn to read.  It's there, aye. No one is denying it or hiding it. But who cares you hate them? Possibly, only you.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               Kail. Regarding the above. It is generally common builder courtesy to mention experience point penalties as they are a downside and often not immediately obvious.  It isn't just me that avoids exp penalties. Many people don't want be a level behind because of a build choice.

Kail Pendragon wrote...
-1 Fort save compared to FTR 8/Rogue 12. -1 Fort is not worth earlier EWS IMO.

Fair enough. Could move fighter 9 to epic... All else applies.

And neither the suggested build did.

The original halfling build we were tweaking had 12 con, and he didn't update the stats, so I wasn't sure.

It's much lesss than you think. Just barely enough to get the main things, but another 50+ points could still easily be spent.

My build has 368 skill points and it is just barely enough. What does that make your suggested build above with a paltry 281 skill points? '>

Naturally one could always enjoy more skill points, but 368 is a nice healthy amount.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lowlander, 15 août 2011 - 02:23 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Shia Luck]

               Hmmmmm 40 HP in an environment when even a mob can do that in one hit, never mind one round, or +1AB on a ranged attack (and halfling gets another +1 by using sling, and bullets are very useful, very very useful vs crit immune (hint hint OP) like skellies cos your dual wield blades do half damage) with a 4APR (5 with haste which is available on items in that environment) character?

/sarcasm/ Oh yes, toughness is much more useful than epic prowess ... LOL

Looking at tweaking in PBS and rapid shot makes sense, especially with halfling. Toughness is just there for if you have an extra feat and nothing better to do with it.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shia Luck]

               

Lowlander wrote...

My build has 368 skill points and it is just barely enough. What does that make your suggested build above with a paltry 281 skill points? '>

Naturally one could always enjoy more skill points, but 368 is a nice healthy amount.

Kail was respoding to the inital request for an assasin which gets half the skill points of a rogue. Bit of a pathetic argument, no?

Jumping on every build request thread and suggesting a ftr/rog or ranger/rog and ignoring the OP is quite a different way of doing things, no?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               

Shia Luck wrote...

Jumping on every build request thread
and suggesting a ftr/rog or ranger/rog and ignoring the OP is quite a
different way of doing things, no?

Shia Pet have a chill pill. You are having reading comprehension problems again.

I am providing builds/tweaking to the original posters request. At each step I try to provide exactly what he asked for.

First he wanted a Dex based Assassin/SD, and that is exactly what I provided (several Ranger/Assassin/SD splits) as the discussion progressed he made it clear that Epic Dodge was the priority. Kail posting another Assassin/Monk at that point really had nothing to do with the Original poster because he had clearly moved on to wanting Epic Dodger and even before that he wanted SD not monk.

So again I provided exactly what he asked for, an Epic Dodger,  and no one else has. 

I don't see how you can see this as ignoring the OP, when I have been in discussion with him, and providing exactly what he asked for at each step. ??
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lowlander, 15 août 2011 - 02:57 .