Looking for an assassin build

[Legacy_C Barchuk]

               Getting ready to run the OC followed by the 2 expansions. I'm wanting to run as assassin that's playable from the gound up. Would love some suggestions. Thanks guys.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shia Luck]

               A bit more info might be necessary to get you what you want so here's two things to think about.

Firstly, assassin is a prestige class and so you cannot play it from lvl1. you will need to be lvl 6 at least before taking assassin. Easiest, and most obvious route to get there is to start as a rogue, but maybe you have another idea?

Secondly, the two expansions are not designed to carry on from NWN OC. The OC is a standalone game which will get you to lvl 17 or so. HotU continues on from SoU (where you start at lvl 1 again)  and will take you to mid 20s (and then there are community modules which can take you to lvl 40) soooo do you now want a lvl 17, lvl 27 or lvl 40 character?

The more info you give, the better the character we can suggest.

Have fun '>
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Shia Luck, 14 août 2011 - 11:09 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_C Barchuk]

               Hey Shia, thanks for the response. I totally forgot that SoU starts at level 1 again. Its been so long. I thought playing all 3 took you to 40. Anyways, ultimately I would like to end up at level 40. I definitely plan on playing the countless community modules out there once I finish HotU. I have looked through the original epic builds archive for some ideas as well though it was pretty hard to find at first. I definitely want a DEX-based dual wielder. Many of the examples I came across were STR-based, which maybe better, but just don't make alot of sense to me from a role playing perspective. I know the assassin prestige class isn't the most popular but I've always been a fan of it so I was hoping to find other closet-fans as well. I definitely want a strong character for sure that is built well. Some of the archived examples I came across were like Ass 25/SD 1/14 Fighter. While something like this ultimately is very powerful, it kind of sucks through the first part of the game cause your basically just leveling as a fighter. I dunno, maybe a build like that is the best way to go. My first thought is to go with rogue at first for maybe 13 levels, grab 1 of SD(I know...cheese) and the rest assassin. I guess I'm just worried my AB will be bad going that route. Anyways, I hope that adds some specifics. Thanks for any help you can give me.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_WebShaman]

               Weeelll....I personally like Wiz/Rng/Ass...makes for a great build, lots of synergy going!  MMM type of Wizard, with some dual-wielding (turn the FE into a spell focus feat), and some Assassination fun with Tumble, UMD drops...yep.  Note that the Death Attack DC is Int based...as well as level based (in Assassin).
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shia Luck]

               Sin26/R13/SD1 is certainly an incredibly strong assassin, until you meet crit immune nasties. Epic dodge (and possibly 50% self concealment, but assassin gives you this 1/day with imp invis), not to mention HiPS, makes you very hard to kill as well. Doing damage against crit immune is the problem, which is why Ftr is a very useful third class. Epic weapon specialisation is very very useful for any dex build, so perhaps it is more a question of how much you want SD.

As you say, it'll be quite a bit of levelling as FTR and cross classing skills (and therefore a high INT score which will impact on your other starting stats) to make a sin/ftr/sd work. Personally I'd drop the SD for ftr, even if that means giving up on HiPS & Death attack synergy. Rogue gets you epic dodge which is worth its weight in gold and darkness from assassin and scrolls of it, or invisibilty wands/scrolls have much the same effect, tho I can't say how available they are in the OC & EXP.

The sands of fate series is made to continue on from HotU and will take you to 40-ish, and if you go this route then I would strongly reccommend not relying on DA/SA as your only damage. (hint hint)

As Web said, assasin does have a lot of synergy with wizard as INT helps the DA paralysis DC and assasin lvls help you to get more attacks per round. Personally I love my Shadow of Death for this. You'll want to take note of Kail's comments on this build and if the environment is to be SoU, HotU and SoF then the Spell penetration feats would be the option to choose over a second spell foci. I don;t know if 13 levels of assasin will be enough for you, but she does have many other ways of insta killing enemies.

The other thing that springs to mind is cleric/sin/sd. 10-12 levels of cleric with extend spell and strength domain will give you lots of divine power which will sort out AB issues and put your low STR to 18 for some extra damage. Trickery domain for invis spells is also going to be useful. 

Have fun '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               There are tons of strength builds because Dex builds kind of suck against monsters unless you have uber gear as you will fight lots of critical/sneak immune undeads with damage reduction. So you will spend a long time trying to wittle these guys down. It is just plain annoying really.

I don't play assassins because essentially they are evil Rogues with prerequisites. Mostly because I don't play evil characters. But Rogues also get more vital skill points and you are going to take a big hit on skill points when you try to qualify for Assassin without a stealth class (Thus Ranger below).

So if I did (given what you said: desire for SD) I would probably do something like Ranger/Assassin/SD.

I would go Ranger 12/Ass8 pre epic, then Take SD 1 at level 21  to preserve BAB.

Then you could finish Ranger21/Assassin18/SD1.  But Assassin doesn't qualify for Epic Dodge that most Dexxers want (rogue would, as does SD10).

You could forget BoE and go Ranger 12/Assassin 18/SD10 for Epic Dodge... But  BoE could be VERY handy against sneak/crit immunes for a dexxer. 

Or Ranger21/Assassin9/SD10 for Epic Dodge and still get Ranger BOE. This would probably be a my choice with these constraints.

Though without constraints I would be a Ranger/Rogue/Fighter, one of my favorite stealth combat builds. Combining Rogue skils, Fighter EWS, and Ranger FE/BoE...
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lowlander, 14 août 2011 - 07:08 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_C Barchuk]

               Thanks for the all the help guys. Well maybe that going the Fighter(or Ranger)/SD/Assassin is the way to go. Sounds like there alot of sneak attack immune enemies which, I have to admit, kind of sucks. Honestly that ends making these type of builds pointless...ugh. Ok. I was really liking the idea of Sin26/R13/SD1 at first. I love having epic dodge as well as self-concealment. But this build would completely suck against anything immune to crit/sneaks etc...Maybe I should just go with a high level rogue build like R29/SD1/F10. That's another build I saw that gets all those rogue goodies plus EWF and EWS. I really want to go with 25 levels minimum in the main class whether its rogue or assassin. Question: does crippling strike still work against sneak attack immune enemies?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_WebShaman]

               You know, Wizards never have problems with Crit Immune types...just sayin'.

What is the abbr. Sin for?  Besides, of course, the obvious...
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shia Luck]

               

WebShaman wrote...

You know, Wizards never have problems with Crit Immune types...just sayin'.

Hence casters are better than rogues, no? *grin*

WebShaman wrote...
What is the abbr. Sin for?  Besides, of course, the obvious...

Sin or ass? I can't win *grin* :innocent:
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_C Barchuk]

               Yea I'm just not a huge fan of wizards. I realize they're very powerful but I just don't enjoy playing them as much. I think I'm going to go with some sort of rogue/fighter/sd with epic dodge and self concealment. Could someone help me with a build order? I always mess that part up.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shia Luck]

               

C Barchuk wrote...

Thanks for the all the help guys. Well maybe that going the Fighter(or Ranger)/SD/Assassin is the way to go. Sounds like there alot of sneak attack immune enemies which, I have to admit, kind of sucks. Honestly that ends making these type of builds pointless...ugh. Ok. I was really liking the idea of Sin26/R13/SD1 at first. I love having epic dodge as well as self-concealment. But this build would completely suck against anything immune to crit/sneaks etc...Maybe I should just go with a high level rogue build like R29/SD1/F10. That's another build I saw that gets all those rogue goodies plus EWF and EWS. I really want to go with 25 levels minimum in the main class whether its rogue or assassin. Question: does crippling strike still work against sneak attack immune enemies?

If you want to play assasin, play assasin. Yes rogue is probably better, but you are not going to play in some mad PG PW. Assasin is a great class to play. (And trust me, in modules such as SoF and HotU, the gear available does give you power vs crit immunes). The enemies just make you use skills/tactics more is all. 

Anyone can play a ftr/rog  or rang/rog on easy and think they are wonderful. The real joy imho is finding the character concept you like and making it work. (so really don't listen to the advice on how to play an assasin from someone who never plays an assasin because they clearly have no idea, no? If you ask for an assasin and they say play rogue then all it says is they cannot read or do not care about your wish, no?)

Have fun '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Kail Pendragon]

               Not dual wielding but getting the same number of APR and more with FoB on plus deflect arrows from the offhand. The ranged option is pretty viable too. Last but not least, it is an halfling of doom!


DEATH FROM BELOW - FIGHTER(10), MONK(3), ASSASSIN(27)
Halfling, Lawful Evil



ABILITIES(ending)
STR: 10
DEX: 18 (36)
CON: 14
WIS: 8
INT: 16
CHA: 8



BASIC STATS
Hitpoints: 406
Skillpoints: 281

Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 25/19/37
Saving Throw bonuses: Mind Effects: +2, Traps: +2, Poison: +6, Fear: +2

BAB: 27
AB: 45 (melee), 43 (ranged), 44 (ranged within 15 feet)
APR: 6 (melee), 4 (ranged), +1 melee/ranged with FoB/RS

AC (naked): 34, 35 vs current target/last attacker, +4 vs AoOs

Death Attack: +14d6
Death Attack DC: 40



SKILLS
Craft Trap 17(20), Disable Trap 43(48), Hide 43(56), Move Silently 41(56), Open Lock 12(25), Search 19(22), Set Trap 30(45), Tumble 40(53), UMD 36(35)



LEVELING GUIDE
Halfling: (Fearless, Good Aim, Lucky, Skill Affinity: Listen, Skill Affinity: Move Silently, Small Stature)
01: Monk(1): Luck of Heroes, {Cleave, Evasion, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist}
02: Fighter(1): Weapon Finesse
03: Fighter(2): Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus: Kama
04: Monk(2): DEX+1, {Deflect Arrows}, (DEX=19)
05: Fighter(3)
06: Monk(3): Rapid Shot
07: Fighter(4): Weapon Specialization: Kama
08: Assassin(1): DEX+1, (DEX=20)
09: Assassin(2): Blind Fight, {Uncanny Dodge I}
10: Assassin(3)
11: Assassin(4)
12: Assassin(5): DEX+1, Dodge, (DEX=21)
13: Assassin(6)
14: Fighter(5)
15: Fighter(6): Mobility, Knockdown
16: Fighter(7): DEX+1, (DEX=22)
17: Assassin(7)
18: Assassin(: Toughness
19: Fighter(: Improved Knockdown
20: Fighter(9): DEX+1, (DEX=23)
21: Fighter(10): Epic Weapon Focus: Kama, Epic Weapon Specialization: Kama
22: Assassin(9)
23: Assassin(10)
24: Assassin(11): DEX+1, Epic Prowess, (DEX=24)
25: Assassin(12)
26: Assassin(13)
27: Assassin(14): Armor Skin, Great Dexterity I, (DEX=25)
28: Assassin(15): DEX+1, (DEX=26)
29: Assassin(16)
30: Assassin(17): Great Dexterity II, (DEX=27)
31: Assassin(18): Great Dexterity III, (DEX=28)
32: Assassin(19): DEX+1, (DEX=29)
33: Assassin(20): Great Dexterity IV, (DEX=30)
34: Assassin(21)
35: Assassin(22): Great Dexterity V, (DEX=31)
36: Assassin(23): DEX+1, Great Dexterity VI, (DEX=33)
37: Assassin(24)
38: Assassin(25)
39: Assassin(26): Great Dexterity VII, Great Dexterity VIII, (DEX=35)
40: Assassin(27): DEX+1, (DEX=36)
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               Above build doesn't have epic dodge requested, and  EXP penalty from level 14 onward. Some don't mind, but I hate that...


The build below is close to request and similar to what I would do for a balanced Human Ftr/Rog/SD with epic dodge:

http://home.comcast....uild250291.html

No self conceals, but I would ditch all the longbow feats and shuffle around to get Self Conceal. I would Specialize in Short Sword to use Enseric.

Or this Halfling that has Epic Dodge and SC:
http://home.comcast....uild237511.html

But  note that Epic dodge now requires level 27 to get, so you would need to shuffle a bit.

But if you really want to be a high level Assassin, just use the Epic Build search:
http://home.comcast....wk/buildsearch/

Set Asssassin level to 25 and check what groupings are are popular, to get an idea what works well.
The Biggest group is the Ranger/Assassin/SD... But again most are likely strength builds. Simple reason is that if you are going to have an Epic Dex build, not having Epic Dodge, seems like a huge waste and Assassin won't give you that.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lowlander, 14 août 2011 - 11:48 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_C Barchuk]

               Thanks again everyone for the feedback. Yep, I definitely want a dex build and Low, I agree, if I'm going the dex route I definitely want epic dodge.

http://home.comcast....uild237511.html

This build you linked Low is the one I dig the most. The only issue with it is it isn't a dual wielder. So I would need to figure out how to swap in those feats. Otherwise the build is exactly what I'm looking for. I need to pick up TWF, Ambidexterity, and ITWF. What levels do you think I should insert those at?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_C Barchuk]

               What about a level distribution like this:

Halfling: (Fearless, Good Aim, Lucky, Skill Affinity: Listen, Skill Affinity: Move Silently, Small Stature)
01: Rogue(1): Ambidexterity
02: Rogue(2): {Evasion}
03: Fighter(1): Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse
04: Fighter(2): DEX+1, Weapon Focus: Dagger, (DEX=20)
05: Fighter(3)
06: Fighter(4): Knockdown, Weapon Specialization: Dagger
07: Rogue(3): {Uncanny Dodge I}
08: Fighter(5): DEX+1, (DEX=21)
09: Fighter(6): Blind Fight, Improved Knockdown
10: Rogue(4)
11: Rogue(5)
12: Rogue(6): DEX+1, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, (DEX=22)
13: Rogue(7)
14: Rogue(
15: Rogue(9): Dodge
16: Rogue(10): DEX+1, Improved Evasion, (DEX=23)
17: Rogue(11)
18: Rogue(12): Mobility
19: Rogue(13): Defensive Roll
20: Rogue(14): DEX+1, (DEX=24)
21: Fighter(7): Epic Weapon Focus: Dagger
22: Shadowdancer(1): {Hide in Plain Sight}
23: Fighter(: Epic Weapon Specialization: Dagger
24: Fighter(9): DEX+1, Great Dexterity I, (DEX=26)
25: Fighter(10): Epic Prowess
26: Rogue(15)
27: Rogue(16): Great Dexterity II, Epic Dodge, (DEX=27)
28: Rogue(17): DEX+1, (DEX=28)
29: Rogue(18)
30: Rogue(19): Great Dexterity III, Crippling Strike, (DEX=29)
31: Rogue(20)
32: Rogue(21): DEX+1, (DEX=30)
33: Rogue(22): Self Concealment I
34: Rogue(23)
35: Rogue(24): Self Concealment II
36: Rogue(25): DEX+1, Self Concealment III, (DEX=31)
37: Rogue(26)
38: Rogue(27)
39: Rogue(28): Self Concealment IV, Self Concealment V
40: Rogue(29): DEX+1, (DEX=32)

This was suggested to me. Is there any area for improvement here?