Weakest and Most Loathed Prestige class.

[Legacy_Kail Pendragon]

               

Shia Luck wrote...
Otherwise PM is best used for STR based melee builds imho.

My dear, I will bring up, in an attempt to sway your opinion two builds: Rogue 24/Bard 6/PM 10 Dex based halfling with ED and SCV, dual wielding capabilities included and its "cousin" Rogue 20/Bard 4/PM 16 with ED but no SCV but getting epic spells. There's also that Wiz 26/FTR 4/PM 10 EDR III reciprocal damage shield build by the Dwarflord which works out pretty well '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shia Luck]

               

Kail Pendragon wrote...

Shia Luck wrote...
Otherwise PM is best used for STR based melee builds imho.

My dear, I will bring up, in an attempt to sway your opinion two builds: Rogue 24/Bard 6/PM 10 Dex based halfling with ED and SCV, dual wielding capabilities included and its "cousin" Rogue 20/Bard 4/PM 16 with ED but no SCV but getting epic spells. There's also that Wiz 26/FTR 4/PM 10 EDR III reciprocal damage shield build by the Dwarflord which works out pretty well '>

1: ED, SCV and crit immunity?  *grin* .. my playstyle is usually to look after defense before anything else but wow! In epic lvls s/he must be unkillable!

2: And epic mage armour on a rogue in the right (limited equipment) environment would be amazing, yes. 

3: (personally I hate reciprocal damage builds, tho I dont have any good argument against their effectiveness) .. I'll just *pout* at that one *grin*

Ok, Soooooooo PM brings more to an STR build than any other a dex?  Can I get away with that? *cheeky grin*

....

WOW that first one really has me thinking now seeing as I usually play dex if not a caster type.

EDIT: and that Dwarflord?  Grrrrrrr far too good a builder for my own good. *cheeky grin* .... I spent an eternity making a (iirc) ftr/bard/pm for a friend only to look it up later on ECB and found that he had a one or two level split difference to mine and his was better! *pout* ..  A wonderful learning experience *grin*

(desperatly hoping I am crediting the right builder! i want the old forums back! Whaaaaaaaa! '>(  )
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Shia Luck, 15 août 2011 - 11:43 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Krazy Solo]

               I can definately say PaleMaster fails at being what it should be.  No disrespect to those who like to use It for defense.  I see a Pale Master being the tier below Lichdom.  If you can call it that.  Meaning I would have loved to see the Pale Master given a bonus to caster lvls 1/2 per lvl.  Just like the bonus spell slots.  This would have made going any Arcane class alot better Multiclassing.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

Krazy Solo wrote...

I can definately say PaleMaster fails at being what it should be.  No disrespect to those who like to use It for defense.  I see a Pale Master being the tier below Lichdom.  If you can call it that.  Meaning I would have loved to see the Pale Master given a bonus to caster lvls 1/2 per lvl.  Just like the bonus spell slots.  This would have made going any Arcane class alot better Multiclassing.

But they can, I am able to do that and actually I did it in my module for friends. But you probably wont see this at vault as instead of support, some peoples who cant do what I can and who only have big mouth  critique me, voting 1 without any comment and insulting me. Now I totally understand why Ben Harrison left this community and not just him.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 16 août 2011 - 05:51 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_WebShaman]

               Well, there is a fix for the PM casterlevel problem.  It looks like it is an "oversight" by Bioware, anyway, forgetting to do so.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Kail Pendragon]

               Here a "fix" for PM caster levels has been available for a while.

Here there are some modification to BW PM including the above mentioned script, to bring it more in line with PnP.

Here we have a revised PnP like PM touch attack.

Here instead there's an interesting script for spawning undead which is also of interest to PM characters.

I'd say there's indeed stuff on the vault to "fix" the PM PrC.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Krazy Solo]

               Don't get me wrong Mods and stuff are fine if you enjoy them.  I'm just not a third party person.  I learned my lesson long time ago not to use Mods for games I enjoy.  Not only you run the risk of breaking the game you run the risk of corrupting files that cannot be fixed.  Just a personal preference.  After all If it wasn't implimented then I'm not gonna cry over it.  Just changes the concept of what a PaleMaster is in Game vs PnP.

Let me just say I didn't say PaleMaster was bad by any stretch.  If I was picking a PrC as being weak I would be choosing a class that doesn't get used in all environments.  That class is Purple Dragon Knight and  Harper Scout.  Both are gimped versions of PnP rules.  More so for PDK.  At least HS has a purpose in Epic Levels.  PDK just seems to be for show has no real purpose outside of custom mods and environment with mounted options.

When it comes to PrC they all have their uses it a matter when they are being used.  Some enjoy power, some love novelty, others efficiency.  Topics like this only brings opinions and not facts in most cases.  Unlike comparing the basic classes PrC cannot be picked until later in a game.  Making them specialized options where basic classes are the foundation of the game.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Kail Pendragon]

               

Krazy Solo wrote...

Don't get me wrong Mods and stuff are fine if you enjoy them.  I'm just not a third party person.  I learned my lesson long time ago not to use Mods for games I enjoy.  Not only you run the risk of breaking the game you run the risk of corrupting files that cannot be fixed.  Just a personal preference.  After all If it wasn't implimented then I'm not gonna cry over it.  Just changes the concept of what a PaleMaster is in Game vs PnP.

You mean you don't play SP modules either? Those are 3rd party stuff too after all.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_SHOVA]

               Krazy Solo, I believe your confused to the terminology. Mod refers to module, or world the game runs. in the case of my earlier posts, I refered to the module differences making all the impact on whether a PC build was weak, or strong. In other games, (non NWN) Mod refers to files that change the core game. In NWN we call those haks, or overrides. I suggest you dl as many mods from the vault as you can, and try them. Mods are but 1 reason this game has endured as long as it has. I also humbly counter to your last, adding new Modules, or Haks, or overrides has no coruption on NWN. it is usualy removing haks or overrides from a module, that corrupts that module. The base game remains unaffected.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Krazy Solo]

               I'm not confuse what Mod means....

Mod has multiple references.  Modification, Modules, Moderator, etc...  It is when individuals don't know all the termonologies when confusing sets in.  When I was refering to Mods I mean Modifications.  I don't use fix or haks when i talk about changing the games.  Unless official I don't use em.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_WebShaman]

               *blinks*

Well, you are missing out on some of the best content that NWN has to offer, graphical and otherwise.

Whatever.

I personally cannot return to "vanilla" NWN - I have to have the better hands, models, colorable lips, eyes, eyebrows...improved graphics, effects, etc!

And of course, the alternative combat animations.

And on, and on, and on.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shia Luck]

               Well, If you don;t like to use mods, then I guess you won't, but if the reason is because of them breaking things then I would like to put forth a small argument *grin* .

I mean, I agree that with many games, (Mass Effect for example) most any modding will cause issues (afaik), but NWN came with that wonderful toolset and is designed to be easily moddable. I will say that with the eception of Tony K's AI (which will only have issues with a limited number of community modules), everything in "Add-ons & Tips from the NWN Community" has been tried and tested by an awful lot of people and won;t cause any issues. I would be a lot less effective as a caster without Amytheyst Dragon's coloured spell icons and GUI, I know that much. *grin*

...but to each their own *smiling*
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Krazy Solo]

               Its a personal preference.  Just as it is everyone elses to use Modifications.  Its not an issue for myself one way or another as I play Single Player 90% of all games I play.  Exception is games that don't have single player '>.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Elhanan]

               

Krazy Solo wrote...

I'm not confuse what Mod means....

Mod has multiple references. Modification, Modules, Moderator, etc... It is when individuals don't know all the termonologies when confusing sets in. When I was refering to Mods I mean Modifications. I don't use fix or haks when i talk about changing the games. Unless official I don't use em.

 I like the Haks, but being Techless I avoid placing anything into the Overide file, as this is often the first thing I see posted on possible problems.

My suggestion: find some Techie friends, and try a Hak or two. One of the first I noticed was simply allowing waves to break on the shoreline, but it made the opening sequence more enjoyable.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

Krazy Solo wrote...

Don't get me wrong Mods and stuff are fine if you enjoy them.  I'm just not a third party person.  I learned my lesson long time ago not to use Mods for games I enjoy.  Not only you run the risk of breaking the game you run the risk of corrupting files that cannot be fixed.  Just a personal preference.  After all If it wasn't implimented then I'm not gonna cry over it.  Just changes the concept of what a PaleMaster is in Game vs PnP.

This was a big issue when I played Diablo. Players there considered any kind of modifications as cheating.

So on one side you like the changes we are talking here about like assassin being able to become RDD/AA and on the other side you are afraid of them as it wouldnt be "vanilla" anymore. While players from Diablo were not able to overcome this issue, more advanced communities like Jagged Allience or Gothic did and they made community patches/modifications which become the standard. But this community seems to be retrogressive the same way as Diablo one...

There are no official modifications and wont be because bioware is gone. I tried to make a community patch but support from community is very low actually. I can make soo much things but there isnt need of them or what, most just say, NWN isnt PnP so your "fixes" are not fixes, it should be the way it is. On the other hand the same peoples dream about assassin be able to become RDD. I dont get it...
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 17 août 2011 - 04:31 .