Author Topic: God Mode Cheat? (and another question)  (Read 2874 times)

Legacy_Shadooow

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God Mode Cheat? (and another question)
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2011, 07:13:42 pm »


               all ways are legal, there is nothing wrong in doing that nobody said otherwise in tho whole discussion about this
               
               

               
            

Legacy_SHOVA

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God Mode Cheat? (and another question)
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2011, 10:31:55 pm »


               Again ya can't cheat in a game you can tailor make to your style. Its impossible. You can however cheat if you log into another persons game, and Do something that give an advantage that they did not set to allow. That is the only way to cheat in NWN.
               
               

               
            

Legacy__Guile

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God Mode Cheat? (and another question)
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2011, 10:47:20 pm »


               

SHOVA wrote...

Again ya can't cheat in a game you can tailor make to your style. Its impossible. You can however cheat if you log into another persons game, and Do something that give an advantage that they did not set to allow. That is the only way to cheat in NWN.


Pretty much... '<img'>
               
               

               
            

Legacy_WebShaman

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God Mode Cheat? (and another question)
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2011, 12:39:22 am »


               Well, it certainly is refreshing to see that finally, slowly, peeps are beginning to understand that there is no cheating in a Closed SP Environment!

Bravo!
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Skildron

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God Mode Cheat? (and another question)
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2011, 08:42:07 am »


               It's probably my lack of understanding of English language, that leads me to a wrong definition of the term "cheating". I do not want to impost my playing style on anyone else, that would be a misunderstanding. But when downloading a module and starting to play, I myself submit to the ruleset someone defined with his or her work and contribution to the community. Disobeying those rules is, in lack of a better word, cheating to me. Of course, it may be necessary to solve a situation a cannot overcome or survive otherwise, but still...

Perhaps someone out there who goes strong against the "cheating" accusation can explain to me what they feel about things like I described in the previous sentence or what they call it.

And by the way:

SHOVA wrote
shut yer trap.

Now, that was rude, don't you think?

Greetings
Skildron
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Skildron, 15 septembre 2011 - 07:43 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Shadooow

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God Mode Cheat? (and another question)
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2011, 09:37:04 am »


               

WebShaman wrote...

Well, it certainly is refreshing to see that finally, slowly, peeps are beginning to understand that there is no cheating in a Closed SP Environment!

Bravo!

Dont think so, rather they dont want to get their hands dirty with Kail or you. Sorry but you(now speaking to whole camp of "no cheating in SP") are just like copy machine. You just keep repeating "impossible", "cannot cheat in SP". While opposite side trying to point different situations, you dont have in your repertoar anything else then repeating. You also rely on same unknown fact or proof that is too clear that you dont have to bring it and explain it.':sick:'
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Skildron

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God Mode Cheat? (and another question)
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2011, 10:09:24 am »


               

Kail Pendragon wrote...

You cannot cheat yourself, but in figures of speech where "to cheat" means "to deprive" as in to deprive oneself of a higher level of enjoyment.


As stated before, perhaps the definition of "to cheat" escapes me at this point - to deprive seems to meet better what I meant. But with dm_god() you are using means of play not meant for players to use on an everyday basis - not even in single player, aren't you?

Kobayashi Maru has no bearing nor relevance to the impossibility to cheat in SP.


Kobayashi Maru is a test of character, not of inventiveness. And I feel every game I play as the same way - do I have it in me to get to a solution abiding by the rules the module designer set and can I admit being defeated? Of course, YMMV.

By the way, I just replay the Aielund Saga because I wanted to try out your concept of a melee mage - thanks for sharing that. At the end of chapter one, I needed several retries to survive the final fight. I could have done it the easy way and play in DebugMode or reload a save game and try a different approach. I like it better to solve problems without god like abilities - again, YMMV

Finally, there's nothing left to prove. The definition of cheating makes it evident one cannot cheat in SP. Prove yourself the opposite, without resorting to trivial figures of speech and irrelevant and unrelated scenarios. I know you cannot, so I don't expect any sensed answer from you, nor from anyone else.


So what is the definition of cheating? Bear in mind that I am no native speaker. In German, the possible translations for "to cheat" go from "schummeln, mogeln" to "betrügen" - which is a very broad selection of possible meanings and connotations, from trying to win a game with a little unfair means up to something that will lead you to court and to Jail.

Please, help my understanding - then perhaps reason of this discussion will become more clear to me.

Greetings
Skildron
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Skildron, 15 septembre 2011 - 09:11 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Kail Pendragon

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God Mode Cheat? (and another question)
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2011, 12:17:51 pm »


               

ShaDoOoW wrote...

WebShaman wrote...

Well, it certainly is refreshing to see that finally, slowly, peeps are beginning to understand that there is no cheating in a Closed SP Environment!

Bravo!

Dont think so, rather they dont want to get their hands dirty with Kail or you.

An dyou know this because you can read other people's minds, right?

Sorry but you(now speaking to whole camp of "no cheating in SP") are just like copy machine.

Of course, since the "argument" is pretty much trivial and straightforward. You know, if we were talking of mathematical proofs we would look like copy machines too.

You just keep repeating "impossible", "cannot cheat in SP". While opposite side trying to point different situations, you dont have in your repertoar anything else then repeating. You also rely on same unknown fact or proof that is too clear that you dont have to bring it and explain it.':sick:'

It has been explained already, more than once in the past. All that is needed is contained in the meaning of cheating (which may be an unknow fact to you or lightfoot who has given up educating himself a long time ago, by his own words and which is an issue easily resolved by consulting a dictionary) in ordinary english and a trivial logical process will reveal the impossibility to cheat in SP. Now,, do your homework yourself instead of asking others to make it for you. You've got all the clues you need and some more.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Kail Pendragon

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God Mode Cheat? (and another question)
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2011, 12:43:49 pm »


               

Skildron wrote...

Kail Pendragon wrote...

You cannot cheat yourself, but in figures of speech where "to cheat" means "to deprive" as in to deprive oneself of a higher level of enjoyment.


As stated before, perhaps the definition of "to cheat" escapes me at this point - to deprive seems to meet better what I meant. But with dm_god() you are using means of play not meant for players to use on an everyday basis - not even in single player, aren't you?

Whether it was mean or not is irrelevant. Anyone else (and their intentions, desires, ideas,, etc.) but the single player has no relevance in SP. The single player can decide to play the way he wants, be that according to the module designers intentions or against them or just outside of them. There are simply no rules, there's just a player playing how he wishes. An author releases a module for public use and what a player does with it (unless we are talking taking credit/stealing it etc.) is really no concern of his.

Kobayashi Maru has no bearing nor relevance to the impossibility to cheat in SP.


Kobayashi Maru is a test of character, not of inventiveness. And I feel every game I play as the same way - do I have it in me to get to a solution abiding by the rules the module designer set and can I admit being defeated? Of course, YMMV.

I know about kobayashi maru and it has no pertinence to the impossibility to cheat in SP. Kobayashi maru is a test done by someone to someone else; more than one party is involved.

The fact you want to play a module the way it was intended by the module author is fine and dandy. It is your preference and you have all the rights to do so. And generally speaking, it' s IMO the "best" way to play a module (we should define best here, but I guess you get what I mean). Now, if someone else has different preferences and chooses to play that module by using console commands, dropping in gear, letoing his character, alterin gthe module or whatever else he' snot cheating but just playing his game same as you play yours. OF course the two of you are playing different games and you won't probably be able to compare your experience.

By the way, I just replay the Aielund Saga because I wanted to try out your concept of a melee mage - thanks for sharing that. At the end of chapter one, I needed several retries to survive the final fight. I could have done it the easy way and play in DebugMode or reload a save game and try a different approach. I like it better to solve problems without god like abilities - again, YMMV

You misunderstand my defense of the fact one cannot cheat in SP with me thinking that it is "cool" to use console/leto/whatever to "beat" a module. I'm pretty much on your same boat about my personal attitude towards modules. Do I think they are, as they say, "cheating themselves out of fun"? Yes I do. But that's a matter of opinion about the practice to make the game easier, while the impossibility to cheat in SP is about facts.


Finally, there's nothing left to prove. The definition of cheating makes it evident one cannot cheat in SP. Prove yourself the opposite, without resorting to trivial figures of speech and irrelevant and unrelated scenarios. I know you cannot, so I don't expect any sensed answer from you, nor from anyone else.


So what is the definition of cheating? Bear in mind that I am no native speaker. In German, the possible translations for "to cheat" go from "schummeln, mogeln" to "betrügen" - which is a very broad selection of possible meanings and connotations, from trying to win a game with a little unfair means up to something that will lead you to court and to Jail.

Please, help my understanding - then perhaps reason of this discussion will become more clear to me.

Greetings
Skildron

Cheat as reported by the online MErriam Webster dictionary, for ease of reference. To cheat/cheating is not simply breaking the rules, it implies deception and fraud. You make/let someone believe you are playing by an agreed set of rules, while you are violating them for your personal advantage: you can cheat at poker, you can cheat on your wife, you can cheat in any kind of competition (say, you are taking drugs to augment your physical performance). The moment someone else is involved, for example by comparing results (say, the time to cross the english channel swimming) or by simply having them believe you did something abiding to some rules you did not actually follow, then cheating is possible because deceipt is possible. If only one subject is involved, no deceipt is possible, no fraud is possible... unless said subject has serious psychiatric issues.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_WebShaman

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God Mode Cheat? (and another question)
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2011, 12:59:37 pm »


               

It's probably my lack of understanding of English language, that leads me to a wrong definition of the term "cheating". I do not want to impost my playing style on anyone else, that would be a misunderstanding. But when downloading a module and starting to play, I myself submit to the ruleset someone defined with his or her work and contribution to the community. Disobeying those rules is, in lack of a better word, cheating to me. Of course, it may be necessary to solve a situation a cannot overcome or survive otherwise, but still...

Perhaps someone out there who goes strong against the "cheating" accusation can explain to me what they feel about things like I described in the previous sentence or what they call it.


It basically boils down to this : you have downloaded/created/purchased/whatever a NWN mod for Closed SP Play.  Meaning that you (and only you) are going to be playing it.  It also means that you are not going to be comparing results of that Mod with anyone else.

Definition of a Closed SP Environment.

In essence, you are playing it alone for your enjoyment.  

As such, only you are creating the rules that you abide by.  If you choose to abide by pre-defined rules (such as those that the Mod Dev/Creator/Maker/Builder/Whatever have suggested - you will note that this is just a suggestion), well, those are the current rules that you are playing by.  

But note the following, please - the moment you deviate from those rules, you are indeed now creating new rules in place of the old rules!  This is because you yourself are acting as the highest authority in your Closed SP Environment (nobody is enforcing any other ruleset for you to play by but yourself).  Since this is so, there can be absolutely no cheating here, as you cannot cheat on yourself (exception : you have multiple personalities).

Now we approach your opinion that others who deviate from how you play, and how you view things are cheating.

How is it that you are somehow the ultimate authority here in someone's Closed SP Environment?

You need to explain this.  How can you state that how someone else plays their Mod in a Closed SP Environment is a cheater?  After all, they are playing by THEIR OWN RULES!  Not your rules, not some pre-defined rules that you have agreed to.  Consider also, that they are the ultimate authority in their Closed SP Environment and that you do not figure into this.

How can you then label them as cheaters?  Define who is being cheated on, please.

As for you, ShaDoOoW - stop trolling me.  You were ACTIVELY INVOLVED IN THE THREAD WHERE I OFFERED MY PROOF; AND YOU FAILED TO DISPROVE IT OR OFFER A COUNTERPROOF!!!!  I find it absolutely false and downright lowly of you to do what you are doing here.  

You know damn well that you participated in that thread!  You also know that I posted a proof in that thread, and even you admitted due to it that there was no cheating in a Closed SP Environment!  All you had to offer in way of denial was that you did not think that a Closed SP Environement was possible.

You disappoint me utterly.  I did not think you would sink that low.  Lying and deceit, where one can easily expose it...*shakes head sadly*  What in the hell were you thinking?

Do you really want me to dig up that thread, and expose you?

I think the least you can do is offer a full apology to all here, and gracefully bow out.  Otherwise, I am going to dig up that thread and expose you.  And after that, I will not accept anything more from you.

In other words, you now have the chance to correct your misdeeds before the factual evidence gets presented.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Elhanan

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God Mode Cheat? (and another question)
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2011, 01:00:48 pm »


               I have not used this console command personally, but have read of its use to examine mods for plotlines and stories rather than test other challenges (ie; combat, traps, etc). Personally, I wish to examine all of this, and generally only wish to remove the tedium of shopping, and slogging routes for trade.

And I am of the 'only one you can cheat solo is yourself' camp; a minority in this on-going debate. Suggestion: Wear a helm for protection....
               
               

               
            

Legacy_WebShaman

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God Mode Cheat? (and another question)
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2011, 01:23:01 pm »


               *sigh*

Cheating yourself is a figure of speech, not a factual statement (unless one has multiple personalities).

You never did offer a proof on how one can cheat on themselves.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_WebShaman

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God Mode Cheat? (and another question)
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2011, 01:52:30 pm »


               Proof of not being able to cheat in a Closed SP Environment

Also, one can plainly see that ShaDoOoW was active in that thread, and that he agreed that there was no cheating in a Closed SP Environment, but that he does not believe (contrary to the submitted evidence) that a Closed SP Environment is possible.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_SHOVA

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God Mode Cheat? (and another question)
« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2011, 02:17:39 pm »


               

Skildron wrote...

It's probably my lack of understanding of English language, that leads me to a wrong definition of the term "cheating". I do not want to impost my playing style on anyone else, that would be a misunderstanding. But when downloading a module and starting to play, I myself submit to the ruleset someone defined with his or her work and contribution to the community. Disobeying those rules is, in lack of a better word, cheating to me. Of course, it may be necessary to solve a situation a cannot overcome or survive otherwise, but still...

Perhaps someone out there who goes strong against the "cheating" accusation can explain to me what they feel about things like I described in the previous sentence or what they call it.

And by the way:

SHOVA wrote
shut yer trap.

Now, that was rude, don't you think?

Greetings
Skildron

If your going to quote me, please quote the entire sentence, it helps avoid confusion and flamming. Just so you know what the entire sentence was: 

SHOVA wrote "If you don't agree, then as mom said, if you can't say something nice, shut yer trap. "


In responce to your view, it is just that, your view. I am sure it brings you great happieness, but in a game where you can change anything, there is no rule that any particular way must be followed, then there can be no cheating. It is impossible. Of course using the "your cheating logic" Any change to the base game, that does anything not intended by Bio, or the "builder" would be a cheat. that would include HAKs, Overrides, Items from another mod, or any new scripting added in. Since NWN by Design allows those changes, there is not a cheat involved. However since some people must impose their belief onto other no mater what, I humbly submit, you can believe whatever you want. I will still play and build the way I want. I hope you have fun playing the game your way, just as I am having fun playing the game my way. I doubt that your view will change anyone elses mind, you might have better luck tilting at windmills. I also realize that no one is going to switch their base view of cheating no mater what I, or anyone with a grasp of logic, posts here. Its a moot point.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Elhanan

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God Mode Cheat? (and another question)
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2011, 01:32:32 am »


               

WebShaman wrote...

*sigh*

Cheating yourself is a figure of speech, not a factual statement (unless one has multiple personalities).

You never did offer a proof on how one can cheat on themselves.


If cheating is the breakage of rules, and the Player sets some in play and then violates said standards; tis cheating themselves.