He's never played a comp. game - easiest starter class?

[Legacy_Elhanan]

               

Lightfoot8 wrote...

The Fred wrote...
. The BG series also had the even wierder 2nd edition rules.

If we could only go back to 2.0, Things would be great.  

Not for myself. Love the settings, but just the thought of Kits is enough to strap on velcro and re-embrace 3E tightly!


               
               

               

                     Modifié par Elhanan, 02 mai 2011 - 02:58 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               

Clerics are good, but any spellcasting class might not be so great an idea, at least if you want to be on the safe side. That pretty much leaves Rogues, who are also probably not a great idea for a beginner (fragile, and too many foes are sneak-immune).

If it werent' for the small additional complexity of multi-classing, I would say some Rogue/fighter (or Rogue/Ranger) mix would be ideal.

Fighter for resiliance, Rogues for their ability to do ANYTHING. Use any magic item,cast spells from scrolls, fight on the front lines, detect, disarm traps, open locks.

I would suggest mainly standard fighter with just some rogue levels for all the handy skills (UMD,Search, Open locks, Disarm traps,Tumble) but not for stealth, sneak attacks. 3 or 4 Rogue levels really won't detract from fighting skills (improve AC with Tumble) and open up so many handy skills.

Personally. I can't be bothered with all the extra futzing around involved in playing a spell caster even after knowing  the rules well and playing for years. But I also can't imagine playing a character that doesn't have all the amazing rogue abilities.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lowlander, 02 mai 2011 - 04:29 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Omega27]

               I honestly suggest a Fighter/Barbarian/Paladin class even Monk. Cant go wrong with those, he might just like those after all. He might like the Glowing eyes for monk at lv 20 gives him something to work towards....might hate the level up part '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_cds13]

               Barbarian, definitely! Sheer brute force with not much thinking before getting into the action.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Elhanan]

               

cds13 wrote...

Barbarian, definitely! Sheer brute force with not much thinking before getting into the action.

I have yet to play much of this class, as the Rage ability can lead to death if not managed properly. And I dislike bonuses that can kill me.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_The Fred]

               Monk is tough at low levels. In the OC you basically start at L3, so it's not quite such a deal, but for a beginner I wouldn't pick it, not if you want to keep things really simple. It plays like a Fighter, but can't wear armour, can't use many weapons, has less health and less AB. Now, it gets a lot of bonuses too, but in terms of something that's solid at hitting things from the word go, I'd probably say something like Paladin would be better. You get a few neat abilities, but you're still at heart just a Fighter (in combat terms, anyway).

Really it's up to him. I'd say suggest a Ranger or Paladin, with an option on Fighter, Barbarian or maybe even Monk if he wants. I mean, if he wants something else, go with it, but the fighter-types are a lot "simpler" in terms of getting to grips with the rules, imo.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_UrkOfGreyhawk]

               I'd say fighter. Easiest class by far, and if this is his first campaign he'll probably enjoy hack and slash.

Start with Shadows of Undrentide. The OC is just kinda stupid.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Elhanan]

               

UrkOfGreyhawk wrote...

I'd say fighter. Easiest class by far, and if this is his first campaign he'll probably enjoy hack and slash.

Start with Shadows of Undrentide. The OC is just kinda stupid.

SoU was more fun, but the OC was not kinda stupid, IMO; just so very long. It took me 6 months of on/off play to complete.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               IMO there is only one merit to SoU, it has Deekin.

But it is a very tedious module, much more tedious than the OC IMO.

SoU is one of those modules that keeps you broke and muling junk gear around to get by for much of the beginning. There are no free/cheap avenues to identify gear if you aren't a spell caster with that ability. Your early henchmen don't have lore, and there isn't a lore potion in any of the shops in Hilltop. You will also be weighed down with gear as I don't remember finding a single bag of holding in the module anywhere. So trips back and forth hauling junk to pay for an identify in the shop... With the added joy of being thrown in at first level so you can easily get killed in two hits by a wandering monster.

That does get eventually solved but there are new tediums awaiting.

IMO SoU was by far the most tedious/boring module of the set. I think a lot of the tedious back and forths were to drag out a small module. I would not recommend starting with SoU.

Maybe Kingmaker for something faster paced and shorter.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lowlander, 03 mai 2011 - 01:06 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Elhanan]

               

Lowlander wrote...

IMO there is only one merit to SoU, it has Deekin.

But it is a very tedious module, much more tedious than the OC IMO.

SoU is one of those modules that keeps you broke and muling junk gear around to get by for much of the beginning. There are no free/cheap avenues to identify gear if you aren't a spell caster with that ability. Your early henchmen don't have lore, and there isn't a lore potion in any of the shops in Hilltop. You will also be weighed down with gear as I don't remember finding a single bag of holding in the module anywhere. So trips back and forth hauling junk to pay for an identify in the shop... With the added joy of being thrown in at first level so you can easily get killed in two hits by a wandering monster.

That does get eventually solved but there are new tediums awaiting.

IMO SoU was by far the most tedious/boring module of the set. I think a lot of the tedious back and forths were to drag out a small module. I would not recommend starting with SoU.

Maybe Kingmaker for something faster paced and shorter.

I enjoyed the tale and questing of SoU myself until the final Chp, and Deekin was indeed the highlight of the mod for me, too. That final Chp had some tedious elements that I was forced to push past to finish, but glad I did, if for no other reason than to get to HotU with a prepped PC.

I adored Shadowgard as an origin mod, then followed by PotSC to continue the Life At Sea theme; compatible stories. Sadly, PotSC is on my old system, and am unable to play it. As PotSC could scale, Epic characters also found it challenging, though there was little in Epic loot.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_The Fred]

               This is really a different topic, but I actually liked SoU the best. Most of those criticisms I'd say are actually good points.

The OC bumped you right up to L3 with little ado. I can see why it did that, but SoU let you experience what it's like to be a vulnerable, first-level character. Maybe it's slightly tough on beginners, though.

Being "kept broke" actually makes a lot more sense to me. If you can just wander into a dungeon and grab a pile of cash, why isn't everyone stinking rich? Or rather, why hasn't inflation kicked in so that everything costs 1000s of gp? In most games, identifying stuff doesn't matter, spending cash doesn't matter, you can just buy pretty much what you want and there's no benefit to having a high lore. By the time you get Deekin, you can have everything auto-identified, anyway.

Yes, there was some tedious back-and-forth, but no more than pretty much every game I've played.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Elhanan]

               Missed the being broke part. I tend to use gold cheats at least on replays, as I dislike the shopping treks made for any game. So flail away, as I am a bad, bad boy!
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               

The Fred wrote...
The OC bumped you right up to L3 with little
ado. I can see why it did that, but SoU let you experience what it's
like to be a vulnerable, first-level character. Maybe it's slightly
tough on beginners, though.

Being "kept broke" actually makes a lot more sense to me.

The training intro of the OC is a much better choice for someone who doesn't even know what a hit point is, than dumping in as first level character to face easy death. Also the OC doesn't bump you right to level 3. You move in stages 1,2,3 after a bit fighting/training at each level.

And while I can agree that there is certain merit to the poverty beginning game experience, it is more of a Grind in SoU than any other Mod that I have played.  Back and forth should happen because of quests, not because you can't carry any more heavy junk that you need to sell for the fifth time.

This is a smallish two chapter module, for the entire chapter 1 deprivation experience you don't have Deekin. You  carry junk to sell. You can't get a decent carry bag and you can't ID stuff for cheap.  Chapter 1 Being a mule.

Nothing is quite as much fun as lugging back a load of junk, selling it pay 100GP to ID some item that turns out to be worth 60 GP after you ID it. Rinse and repeat. It is an exercise in frustration.

SoU would be what I recommend for a first timer if I wanted them to give up and to never play NWN again.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lowlander, 03 mai 2011 - 03:37 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               

Elhanan wrote...

Missed the being broke part. I tend to use gold cheats at least on replays, as I dislike the shopping treks made for any game. So flail away, as I am a bad, bad boy!

Then you aren't recommending SoU, you are recommending your "customized" version where you aren't broke. Which changes the premise completely. This is why it is frustration to have these discussions with those who readily use cheats.

Ch 1 is all about deprivation and scrounging to afford the basics, making tough choices where to spend you meager resources. I found it quite frustrating, but it was designed to be frustrating that is the point. I am not going load up on gold to skip the premise.

It is a very tough start the normal way, in your leather amor, 1st level with a short sword facing various monsters that can easily kill you.

A whole diffirent kettle of fish if you have cash and can go right away to load up with plate/shield/longsword etc...

If you use cheats, we aren't talking about the same mod.

If you have some spare time at some point, try playing SoU clean and see if you think you would still recommend it as a begginer mod?
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lowlander, 03 mai 2011 - 03:36 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Elhanan]

               I found Chp 1 to be well done myself, even before cheating. But I often choose Appraise as a skill, at least for my Rogues. And finding that rather tough-skinned merchant hiding in his keep was one of the few times that I chose to raise Appraise past 5 ranks, so the challenge here was pleasing, too.