Monk Kama build

[Legacy_fetyr2004]

               Hey all,

I have yet another request for a build.  I just started playing again after a month of being away and really want to play a monk that dual worlds kamas however I have no clue how to do it.  All suggestions welcome.  It is for the OC and I would prefer pure monk if possible.  Thanks

Fetyr
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               the go pure, take weapon focus on kama, improved critical on kama and thats it no build needed

for OC ever anyway
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               If pure monk, in the OC, I would stick with my hands, as they will do up to 1-20 damage, vs 1-6 with a kama.

As above. If pure monk, what's to build. You decide on Str or Dex based and go...
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_jmlzemaggo]

               I'm not good at monk but the only thing I maybe understood by reading the character sheet was kamas aren't as efficient as bare hands, and not interesting visually at all.
Not to mention the 4 amazing Monk Alternate Combat Animations, by Ragnarok_mr4
(Read Tip N°2, in my Add-ons list in my signature)
Unless you find some über-kamas... not in the OC though.
And at that point, I like katanas better... Yeap, so just as Lowlander said.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               

jmlzemaggo wrote...
Unless you find some über-kamas... not in the OC though.

Tsk, tsk. Pushing the envelope, jml.  If I had a flounder handy I'd be using it now. '>

BTW, fetyr.. your check is in the mail.  Dual kamas achieve the highest APR possible (10) in the game but only with at least 4 fighter-type levels by clvl 20.  Even a pure kama monk can achieve 9 APR for the OC if hasted and while flurrying.  Now if only some nice mage would buff your weapons, you'd have it knocked. '>
               
               

               

                     Modifié par HipMaestro, 25 avril 2011 - 08:22 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               

HipMaestro wrote...
 Dual kamas achieve the highest APR possible (10) in the game...

So?

I would rather have 8 x D20 attacks.

Than spend 3 feats (Ambi/TWF/ITWF) to get:

10 x D6 attacks at -2 to hit.

If they all hit the average for 8 D20s = 84 points.
If they all hit the average for 10 D6 =  35 points.

Heck the 8 - D20 attacks Average more than the maximum of the 10-D6 attacks.

Unless you have Uber weapons (like crafted HotU ones) Unarmed is better.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lowlander, 25 avril 2011 - 08:47 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               

Lowlander wrote...

HipMaestro wrote...
 Dual kamas achieve the highest APR possible (10) in the game...

So?

I would rather have 8 x D20 attacks.

Than spend 3 feats (Ambi/TWF/ITWF) to get:

10 x D6 attacks at -2 to hit.

If they all hit the average for 8 D20s = 84 points.
If they all hit the average for 10 D6 =  35 points.

Heck the 8 - D20 attacks Average more than the maximum of the 10-D6 attacks.

Unless you have Uber weapons (like crafted HotU ones) Unarmed is better.

One can't dual-wield fists, it's a one-hand attack.  Therefore, you only get the properties and onhit enhancements from one source (gloves) rather than 2 which sometimes can stack (like with regen, for example).  The OP specifically requested a dual-kama build so rather than dump cold water on the plan pointing out some of the advantages of going that way is more productive.  Keen kamas will crit more than unarmed so you'll need to figure that into your calculations besides.

the d20 attack will be getting a grand total of the last 2 or 3 characters levels (of OC gameplay) at that max damage level so you'll need to do some more averaging for the 5 different unarmed damage stages while the kama damage remains constant throughout.

Why confuse a simple build request with an editorial about unarmed vs. kama?  *sigh*
               
               

               

                     Modifié par HipMaestro, 26 avril 2011 - 04:18 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               

HipMaestro wrote...
Why confuse a simple build request with an editorial about unarmed vs. kama?  *sigh*

Not confusing the issue, but pointing out facts he may not be aware of that could alter his decision.

If he knew that bare handed monks would easily do double the the damage of a dual wielding Kama monk, while saving him three feats in the process that might change his outlook completely.

Maybe he was under the impression that dual wielding Kamas would be more effective.

Sure you don't always get the Massive D20 damage, but the D12,  and D10 and all still outweigh the extra attacks.

Also you only get one extra attack before level 12...  Get down to  much lower level and it won't make sense to dual wield because of the minuses. Monks don't have the best BAB, have to spread abilities, and if you flurry/dual you are getting -4 to hit...

You might find a level or two where dual wielding is better, but in the OC Unarmed is clearly the more effective overall choice.

Now if he wants to be less effective for stylistic reasons, that is his choice, but he should know he is making that choice.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lowlander, 26 avril 2011 - 05:55 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_jmlzemaggo]

               Strictly on a stylistic point of view, along with the Monk Alternate Combat Animations, by Ragnarok_mr4, a monk to me fights bare hands.
Otherwise... it's just another fighter with tools, but if you wanna go for kamas fetyr2004, and HipMaestro was unusually right here... for a change '>, of course you shall do just as you please:

That's the only NWN rule. The true purpose of gaming.

Monk is a very special class I use only when I need some ascetic religious type of PC for a game that requires a very particular way of handling the roleplaying.
When everything around needs to be unmaterialistic. Heaven...
Purely mental, abstract. Nothing heavy, all as light as the skin.
That works even better with a female PC...

Like my wife without my credit card...

(She has one on her own, and I even used it when I wasn't at my best, only... I had to make that stupidiest joke ever. I just had to... I'm stupid. But even her would have smiled... while nailing me on the nearest wall.) 
And for a smile of her... 
               
               

               

                     Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 26 avril 2011 - 07:22 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Shia Luck]

               Most effective would be monk1 or 6/ftr4/rogue (or maybe assassin) all the rest. Wpn specialisation and an extra attack from ftr is the main thing so F4/M12+ will also be effective if you want her to be mostly monk. If it is the OC then str build would be most effective. (Dex build needs more levels to really shine)

One level of rogue is defiitly worth it mostly for the UMD skill tho, so you can flame weapon your kamas, (which is something missing from the damage calculation above). If you are interested, kamas become better than lvl16 fists when they get to +7 enhancement (assuming you are using scrolls for flame weapon and GMW. A real mage buffing you will bring that number down to +6 iirc maybe (sry, long time since I had this discussion '> ). Of course they will also be better early levels when you can GMW and flame weapon them and the gloves available are very weak.

Key points:
All stats at 14 to start (except charisma), then increase only str (or dex)
Skills go to tumble, hide, move silently, listen, discipline, (UMD)
imprtant feats: wpn focus: kama, improved critical kama, wp specialisation kama, (knockdown and the improved one if taking less than 6 monk levels) , (blind fight (not so important in OC but is normally a must have)), expertise (and even improved expertise). (wpn finesse if you go dex)

Personally I am with JML... fists and alternate animations are way more fun, but it's your game *grin*

Have fun '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Gregor Wyrmbane]

                I'm no hall of fame character builder, but I'm curious about something with this concept. If building a mostly monk dual wielding kama PC for the OC, would it be advantageous to take a single level of ranger for the "dual wield" feat? Monks don't wear armor anyway, and rangers get some prettty handy class skills. Just wonderin'.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shia Luck]

               1 lvl only gets you one off hand attack. You'd need 9 to get the improved dual wield. With 4 ftr lvls for wpn specialisation and an extra attack you easily have enough feat slots to spend on the 3 feats soooo.
Have fun '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               

Shia Luck wrote...

Most effective would be monk1 or 6/ftr4/rogue (or maybe assassin) all the rest.

Yes Monk1-4 (pre epic), +many fighter + maybe some rogue is the typical Kama cheese build, but he did also stipulate "pure" monk.

If going pure monk, one of the main things you that keeps increasing is your fist damage (along with some immunities and slow progress on AC), so the first thing that comes to mind is use your fists as this is one of the few contexts where they are better.

If multi-classing as mainly a fighter with a dash of rogue/monk, then Kamas would be the way to go...
If you were playing Hotu, with its crazy weapons/items, then Kamas would be the way to go..

But pure Monk, with mediocre Kamas available, fists are the obvious winner...
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Gregor Wyrmbane]

               

Shia Luck wrote...

1 lvl only gets you one off hand attack. You'd need 9 to get the improved dual wield. With 4 ftr lvls for wpn specialisation and an extra attack you easily have enough feat slots to spend on the 3 feats soooo.
Have fun '>

Yeah, I got that part, but I was thinkin' from what the OP requested about a mostly monk build and wanting to use kamas, that it might work okay for the OC. Especially if it's just about the visual/RP effect. I suppose 4 fighter levels would be better, but in the OC you're not likely to go above level 16, so BAB isn't going to gain you 4 base attacks per round anyway. I know you can sometimes make level 18, but you have to really milk every XP you can find to do it, and it only happens in the very end. Besides all that, fighters don't get much in the way of skills. Rangers get Hide/Move Silently, and they also get Search which is helpful for avoiding traps. 
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Kail Pendragon]

               

Lowlander wrote...

HipMaestro wrote...
Why confuse a simple build request with an editorial about unarmed vs. kama?  *sigh*

Not confusing the issue, but pointing out facts he may not be aware of that could alter his decision.

If he knew that bare handed monks would easily do double the the damage of a dual wielding Kama monk, while saving him three feats in the process that might change his outlook completely.

They don't easily do double damage. Damage output is calculated over the whole round an dhas to factor in available and usable gear and buffs.

Maybe he was under the impression that dual wielding Kamas would be more effective.

Which easily happens in a magic rich environment like the OC.

Sure you don't always get the Massive D20 damage, but the D12,  and D10 and all still outweigh the extra attacks

Not really.

Also you only get one extra attack before level 12...  Get down to  much lower level and it won't make sense to dual wield because of the minuses. Monks don't have the best BAB, have to spread abilities, and if you flurry/dual you are getting -4 to hit...

Untrue. One extra attack at -2 AB i senough to grant the advantage over single wielding but in the case AC-AB=18.

You might find a level or two where dual wielding is better, but in the OC Unarmed is clearly the more effective overall choice.

IIRC what is available in the OC, false.

BTW, no need to go pure class. FTR/Rogue/Monk will work fine and you can use armor for the earlier levels not to say UMD to enchant your kamas (something you can't do with fists).