Back to nwn - build, oc and multiplayer questions :)

[Legacy_ValKillYa]

                Hello.
Little history here if u r not interest in just scrool to questions.
Ok lest start.  I was playing nwn some time ago (from realese like 1 year) but i didnt have even internet connection (sick!) so wasnt able to understand most of things (saves, bab, ab, stacking bonuses etc) it was to hard to get that all by myself. Ofc i sticked with fighter (and second time with wizard) class from beginning to end of oc (rotf) so didnt apreciate all that nwn is best about - customisation. The i get back after releasing both exp and played both nwn base campain and some of hotu with fighter/wm class - got more knowledge about dnd world but not much.  Then i got bored, no wonder, and sold my nwn becouse i needed any $ possible for my first car '> Nowadays i played much of new rpgs (dragon age 1/2, witcher etc) but i didnt like much any of them.  None of them had much of customisation available and not much possible play strategy, nothing reeaaallly complex... I even tryied nwn2 spending much time researchin some bulids but when i started to play it kinda was boring - dont know why. I found myself rolling back to kotor 1/2 and havin much fun with, now its time for Neverwinter.
I already read many wikia and some classes guides and i think i get most of big dnd world... I even borrow copy of nwn from my friend and started playing pal/cot/wm base oc and having fun with it, but idea pop up in my head "i never played roque class and idea of snake attacks and hips sounds nice"... And now my questions starts (at last isnt? '> )


Base idea was to use sneak atacks and hips from sd to land fast huge dmg hits with also criticals (i know sa didnt goes when multipling dmg for critical strike), then if enemy angage me try to knockdown him, if fail hips, or just engage and using companion/summon to take attention to land huge dmg hits. Using two weapons or two bladed (just discover that its almost the same), having high str for dmg output, overwhelming critical prer (dont want to take devastating becouse its sounds too op).... My concerns r: ac, undead monsters (immunity to both critical and sneak atack), bab and saves. ofc only in oc with both exp.
First question: What 3rd class?
I was thinking about monk - self cancelment sounds nice and it would help much with my crappy ac, also free knockdown/improve, boost saves and other bonuses. Dont mention speed bonus that stack with haste (quite needed becouse of lack run in stealth mode). But maybe just wearing heavy armor would be better idea? Penalty to move silently, hide would be high?
Maybe ranger - gaining two weapon bonuses early lvl without loosing feats, no need for putting points in dex for prereq ambiodextery, also bonuses to hit to undead with fav enemy, high bab progression and probably bane of enemies for nice dmg bonuses for example vs undead (which goes to crit multipy). But kinda dont know much about ranger it doesnt look interesting 4 me. And i would have to take 21lvl of it.... Maybe this subclass would add some more strategy options? Also panther would remove need of hanchman for no exp penalty?  dont sure about it....
Maybe Assassin? - casting darkness, summon (idea like up), self cancelment (50% with improve invisibilty), no loosing sneak atack progression, and death atack (dont like idea of it looks very overpowered even with initiative issue). But it look like one strategy fighting not much versality. Also undead issue not dissolve.
Or just Weapon Master - huge boost to critical, high bab and... just it... Undead issue not disesolve.
Second question: How many lvl of each class?
Mainly this is about sd... only 1lvl or more? And is it worth loosing sneak atack dmg for rangers bane of enemies?
Third question: What weapon?
I will use improve critical so it would be two same wapons... i would like to use very good threat range of rapier or scimitar (second one would look nice) i know issue of penalty off head medium weapon but i like the looks of it and its suit my idead nicely. This would be dissolve with two bladed weapons - which sounds nice becouse of str bonus to dmg but issue is with that is threat range (sword 19-20 axe crappy 20 but multipy x3). Main problem is... availability of good ones in oc. Best would be with keen obviously.
Fourth question about multiplayer: I dont know what it even look like... like mmorpg? or just pvpin in arena or cooperative? How many ppl still plays nwn1? Is it worth buying copy for myself or multi community is dead? Ofc my build whould need some major tweaks (probably stick with ranger for high bab and bane of enemies for players races) for purpous of pvp.

Thank You for readin this too long thread and much aprecciate some good answers.
Take care '>
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ValKillYa, 24 avril 2011 - 11:58 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               Fighter is the obvious choice. At least 4 levels for Weapon Specialization. Though normally I would do at least 8 fighter levels before hitting level 20. For the first 20 levels, the classes have different attack bonuses, and this is where your attacks per round get set. After twenty attacks per round stay the same as they were at level 20 and all classes increase attack bonus at the same rate.

There is a rule to maximize you attack bonus, always add Rogue levels in groups of 4. The same applies to SD, but you can do SD 1 if they other three levels in that group are fighter.

If I really wanted a Rogue heavy SD build I would go 12 Rogue/7 Fighter/1 SD.

SD levels don't get you much that your rogue levels already give unless you invest many. 7 Fighter levels give you 4 Extra Feats for KD/IKD/Weapon Spec and something else.

I finish fighter on an odd level under 20 because that gives an instant epic feat if/when you hit level 21. You can take Epic weapon focus and Epic weapon Specialization right at that one level.

I have played NWN MP on a PW, but I never saw any PvP it is was largely coop and I actually played a SD there and in groups it was pretty much a waste. HiPs is mainly a solo capability and highly overrated one IMO. I would just take more Rogue or Fighter levels and carry some Invis Potions for when I need to re-stealth (which on my builds is just about never).

About the only use for HIPS is spamming on PvP servers where it is likely banned anyway.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lowlander, 25 avril 2011 - 01:23 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               I agree with Lowlander.  Fighter.  The +2 dmg from WS will be nominal but will help a bit against those pesky crit immunes.  Ranger is primarily a dual-wield build with some extra FE damage thrown in

Figure a max of about level 18 for your PC in the OC.

Scythe.  The highest possible damage weapon for a single hit critical and therefore best chance to disrupt a Concentration check. That means exotic prof so, again, fighter will help.  Actually, any two-handed will work decent enough.  All get the large weapon bonus and very hard to disarm.

The main issue will be your own decision how to balance Dex with the chosen armor and still maintain effective Hide/Move Silently checks so that HiPS is worthwhile.  Heavy armor and shields will be a serious detriment to stealth.  Figure on what your final Dex modifier will likely be and choose armor that maximizes the stealth skills.  A pure Dex build will be a low-damage build so not advisable ifor a high damage back-stab.

Personally, re:OC, I find HiPS redundant because am always able to buy loads of Invis potions (as Lowlander suggested) which don't affect the move speed. Still... go for SD it if you like the concept.  SD/HiPS was not designed for the OC (added with SoU) so the monster AI makes the feat unbalanced and pretty silly in pre-SoU modules IMO.

Rog/Ftr/WM is a very good damage/crit combo but probably better explored in a more extensive campaign than the OC.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par HipMaestro, 25 avril 2011 - 03:46 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_ValKillYa]

               I will play not only base nwn but both expansions with same character so i could get to very high lvles... (oc is for me base campain and expansions).  Is that good way to explore all nwn plot? so in bulids its not only to 20lvl but to 40lvl.... u r right - its not worth losing one class to chose if i could just use invisibility potions for same effect....
How much penalty for hide wearing heavy armor made? How much bonuses i lose by having low dex (like 12-13).
I kinda dont want to play fighter becouse i always play it '> i just want to try something else, thats why kinda like idea of ranger but with low dex and stick to light armor its like glass canon ;P thats why i wanted counter low ac with hips so enemies wont hit me much...
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ValKillYa, 25 avril 2011 - 04:38 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               It does sound like the OP wants to build a Dual-wield dexxer though...

I would say don't. It kind of sucks without overpowered weapons to support it...

You don't need to be a dexxer to be an effective stealth killer.  And the low damage is just no fun.

I am actually replaying the official campaign right now with a "Death from Stealth" Greatsword Rogue/Fighter right now. I am in Chapter 4 right now. I have 14 dex and I stealth everything wearing a Chain Shirt. Which is only -2 on stealth (which is nothing).

I have KD/IKD and I almost never use them because stuff just dies too fast. The same with thoughts of re-stealthing.

Typically I stealth in the middle of a mob of say 5-6 Orcs (earlier chapters), I target the pesky spell caster. BOOM! Sneak/attack he is dead. Then the great cleaves/crits/sneaks start flying everywhere in a flurry of destruction and soon everything is dead and I don't have a scratch.

This kind of surprise attack just devastates them before they can react. 

The advantage of going with the Large Two Handed weapon is they do the most damage. So all your cleaves do more damage, and when you fight pesky crit/sneak immunes (undead) with damage resistance, you cut through damage resistance better.

It is a killer choice, a perfect example of "walk softly but carry a big stick".
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lowlander, 25 avril 2011 - 04:48 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               

ValKillYa wrote...

I will play not only base nwn but both expansions with same character so i could get to very high lvles... (oc is for me base campain and expansions).  Is that good way to explore all nwn plot?

No.

You could play the same character into HoTU, It is meant to start at about a max of Level 15. You will likely be 17 or 18 when done the OC. That might reduce the challenge a bit, but it wouldn't be completely hopeless. Even if you start this high, you won't see level 30, let alone 40 in HotU.

SoU is meant for a new 1st level character, bringing in a 17+ level would be silly, pointless and completely boring. You may as well just turn on god mode cheat.

If you want to play them all properly you should play the OC, then retire the character. He will reach a max of about level 18.

Then start a fresh character for SoU, and play him into HotU, the stories actually connect. The same hencmen in SoU carries over into HotU.

Or play both the OC and SoU and decide which character you want to bring into HotU.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               

ValKillYa wrote...
I will play not only base nwn but both expansions with same character so i could get to very high lvles... (oc is for me base campain and expansions).  Is that good way to explore all nwn plot? so in bulids its not only to 20lvl but to 40lvl....

For epic (level 40) characters, you'll need to find some community content modules that are scaled for high-level PCs or play a server which provides adequate XP to get that high.

I kinda dont want to play fighter becouse i always play it '> i just want to try something else, thats why kinda like idea of ranger but with low dex and stick to light armor its like glass canon ;P thats why i wanted counter low ac with hips so enemies wont hit me much...

If you don't need the extra feats you can get by with any other class you like.  Just be wary of of the ability demands typical for those classes, for example Ranger is Wisdom (if you want to use spells) or Pally is Charisma for divine skill durations and modifiers.  So you may easily find your ability spread is just too thin to become very powerful.  Hence, the "one-size fits all", all purpose fighter class that solves many of these kinds of problems.

But build as you enjoy the most and throw caution to the wind when it comes to maximizing your combat skills.  The campaigns were intended to be easy enough that one does not need to be a power-gamer to have fun with it. 
               
               

               

                     Modifié par HipMaestro, 25 avril 2011 - 09:02 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_ValKillYa]

               I came with three builids:

first rog(3), figh(, ass(9) - some nice feats improve knockdown (to get sa for facing enemy), improve cleave. Two wield. Why not just rogue? Just for improve invisibility spell - long term 50% cancelment is very nice... and without loss of sneak atack dmg

second rog(9), cleric(2), ass(9) - cleric to get divine might and divine shield, turn unded, bonuses from domains, kinda suck at stats and possibly i would miss a lot, normal knockdown, cleave, two wield

and third: classes as above and feats but single wield big weapon (greataxe, greatsword), nice normal dmg but suck at atack per round so sneak atack usage questional....

To be really honest im just looking for interesting character which can manage all alone through official campaign. Its not necessery must be rogue but its kinda best with lots of skills (open lock, dissable trap etc im kinda curious about set trap - never done it before ^^'). If something is better for alone campaign - im open to propositions...
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ValKillYa, 02 mai 2011 - 08:59 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Shia Luck]

               

ValKillYa wrote...

I came with three builids:

first rog(3), figh(, ass(9) - some nice feats improve knockdown (to get sa for facing enemy), improve cleave. Two wield. Why not just rogue? Just for improve invisibility spell - long term 50% cancelment is very nice... and without loss of sneak atack dmg

Sounds nice. I'd try to drop to F4, losing great cleave and??? (Don't know what else you have planned). 1 SD could replace ftr altogether maybe too. Against crit immune the fights'll be tougher tho.

ValKillYa wrote...
second rog(9), cleric(2), ass(9) - cleric to get divine might and divine shield, turn unded, bonuses from domains, kinda suck at stats and possibly i would miss a lot, normal knockdown, cleave, two wield

Well, if you want divine might... sorc/cleric 1 or 2/ AA   ??  Make dual use of that charisma. Could focus on conjuration spells. Grease for an archer is incredibly useful. Stinking cloud equally so. ..

ValKillYa wrote...
and third: classes as above and feats but single wield big weapon (greataxe, greatsword), nice normal dmg but suck at atack per round so sneak atack usage questional....

Large weapons need improved disarm to really shine imho. And therefore a strength build. If OC is lowish magic, barbarian /rogue perhaps?

ValKillYa wrote...
To be really honest im just looking for interesting character which can manage all alone through official campaign. Its not necessery must be rogue but its kinda best with lots of skills (open lock, dissable trap etc im kinda curious about set trap - never done it before ^^'). If something is better for alone campaign - im open to propositions...

I'm a huge rogue fan but.... sorc/wiz can have a pixie which is a 'your level + 1' rogue which can take care of lots of things. Wiz/(ftr)/rog is also a lot of fun... anyway, whatever you go for... 
Have fun '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_ValKillYa]

               

Shia Luck wrote...
Sounds nice. I'd try to drop to F4, losing great cleave and??? (Don't know what else you have planned). 1 SD could replace ftr altogether maybe too. Against crit immune the fights'll be tougher tho.

Base idea was, i stated that in first post, that i want to have good normal dmg and extra form snake atacks and two wield... So mainly i started with 15 dex (amibdextery) and 15str and after that all in str. Wearing heavy armor and use stelth - penalties r to live with. Fighter lvl r esential to get two wield feats and critical improve...
Playstyle was like to pop up from shadows with sneak atack and criticals, then when enemy engage try to knockdown to get back sneak atack... Also fighter lvl r needed to geto 4atack per round for main weapon... I lose some of sneak dmg but i gain additional atack so i think its worth it.... That was my idea with that build...
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               I am more a fan of Rogues with Big Weapons. My recent build I played the OC with recently is at the end of this thread:
http://social.biowar...9/index/7113268

It was a very satisfying build. You can see it for more detail on that kind of build.



While Dual wield isn't my thing, I think you should still go strength to be less miserable against sneak immune creatures.  I am also not a fan of evil, but if you want an assasin and  max attacks/round.

You could go Lawful Evil:

Monk 1-4/fighter 6-10/Assasin 9-10 .


STR: 16 (20)
DEX: 15
CON: 12
WIS: 14
INT: 10
CHA: 8

If you want the most swings possible with sneak attacks from assasin, this would be one way to go.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lowlander, 02 mai 2011 - 11:08 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Shia Luck]

               

ValKillYa wrote...

Shia Luck wrote...
. Also fighter lvl r needed to geto 4atack per round for main weapon... I lose some of sneak dmg but i gain additional atack so i think its worth it.... That was my idea with that build...

kk, was just a suggestion as you had mentioned HiPS too. (ummm and btw , it actually doesnt get 4 APR. It could do at lvl 19, but wont do in OC.)

Have fun '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_ValKillYa]

               

Lowlander wrote...
While Dual wield isn't my thing, I think you should still go strength to be less miserable against sneak immune creatures.  I am also not a fan of evil, but if you want an assasin and  max attacks/round.

You could go Lawful Evil:

Monk 1-4/fighter 6-10/Assasin 9-10 .


STR: 16 (20)
DEX: 15
CON: 12
WIS: 14
INT: 10
CHA: 8

If you want the most swings possible with sneak attacks from assasin, this would be one way to go.

Im kinda dont get this bulid why monk instead of rogue? (and conseqently wis 14?) I know monk get some nice bonuses but... could u just justify monk and wis?

As i wrote it not essentianally must be that can kind of build i just want to be a loner and have fun....
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ValKillYa, 03 mai 2011 - 07:12 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               You wield Kamas which enables Monks to get more attacks/round than any other class.

The above Monk build would get 7 attacks/round with unique monk attack progression and unique monk feat Flurry.  That is before you dual wield. With Dual wielding you would get 9 attacks per round.

By contrast your rogue/cleric/assassin would only get 3 attacks/round or 5 attacks/round with dual wielding. Your rogue/fighter/assassin would get 4 attacks/round, or 6 attacks/round with dual wielding.

If you are concerned with max attacks per round, monks are far out in front.

Wisdom is because Monks get wisdom bonus to AC in addition to Dexterity, to compensate for not being able to wear armor.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               

ValKillYa wrote...


As i wrote it not essentianally must be that can kind of build i just want to be a loner and have fun....

Then I am back to recommending similar my previous build, that I actually played throught the OC recently:
http://social.biowar...7113268#7218650

Which is a much more effective all around soloist than a sneak attack dependent dual wielder.

Especially something like your rogue/cleric/assasin, which would only have 5 ttacks/round with dual wield versus my 4 attacks/round with greatsword which will do much more damage/attack.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lowlander, 03 mai 2011 - 12:28 .