Understanding gear, stats, build and surviving?

[Legacy_Peteed]

               I have owned the game for years and haven't played it much cause I can't work out gear system or class creation.

How do you build a good character? Cross class build or pure of one class? How do you work out best spell/ability/stat to choose?

For gear how do I know when to use a piece of not? How do I know if stats will stack or not? Are monks really best naked with no weapons since adding those far as I understand it makes all your abilitys not work/not work right?

Gear with +1 and +2 and +8 and all that seems to say the same dmg far as I can see except on the name?

I can't kill anything as anything but a fighter type cause they have 10 times the HP of a caster at level 1. As wizard with like 8 or 12 HP I just keel over in a attack or 2 and also have only 1 or 2 spells before I run out and then can't rest cause enemys are near.

Please help a noob who in hours and hours of playing and trying to work this out couldn't get more than 1/2 into act 2 of first campaign as a fighter and couldn't get any other off the ground . Only way I beat game so far has been cheating with god mode or one of those leveling and gearing mods making me 40 instantly with the most uber gear in existance and i'd really like to learn to play right to not cheat like that '>

Been looking for years for a guide explaining how gear and builds and stats all work but draw a blank. Seems the games made for those who played P&P D&D and to confuse the hell out of us D&D system noobs.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Gregor Wyrmbane]

               This is probably the best place to start.

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

And if you want something for the OC, you might find something in the way of a decent build here.

nwn.bioware.com/guilds_registry/viewforum.html
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Gregor Wyrmbane, 17 avril 2011 - 05:20 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Peteed]

               

Gregor Wyrmbane wrote...

This is probably the best place to start.

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

And if you want something for the OC, you might find something in the way of a decent build here.

nwn.bioware.com/guilds_registry/viewforum.html

So games so complex that I have to read hundreds of pages on a wiki to start playing? I'm legally blind in one eye and not full vision in the other so reading more than a few pages is a struggle.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

Peteed wrote...
How do you build a good character?

You must know what you need, what you play and add a personal preferences to it too.

Most singleplayer modules are playable with everything. And there is no sense of making a "powerbuild" in singleplayers too. The "builds" are made almost everytime for max level and you won't reach it in SP, also powerbuilds are saving skills at earlier levels and making "skill dumps" very late, and you can't afford this in OC.

If you want a suggestions about base abilities, try to download community patch in my signature and use recommended button. I changed the old recomended abilities to new ones that doesnt put even a point into ability that class cannot use. This allowed to raise basic abilities like con, str, int. Try it, really.

Peteed wrote...
Cross class build or pure of one
class?

There is no sense to make a pure build really. But since it can give you a penalty on experiences most build guides doing this on later levels (if its not prestige class). Even if you are playing fighter, it really helps to take a level of rogue at lvl 2, 7 and every fifth level thereafter to take a skills that fighter cant take as class -> tumble, open lock, disable trap, use magic device...

Peteed wrote...
How do you work out best spell/ability/stat to choose?

This is all very environment specific and again to work this out, you must know what you want to achieve.

Peteed wrote...
For
gear how do I know when to use a piece of not? How do I know if stats
will stack or not? Are monks really best naked with no weapons since
adding those far as I understand it makes all your abilitys not work/not
work right?

Items with ability bonuses are stacking together up to +12 cap on each ability. Anyway NWN Wiki is your friend, if you really want to become a professional powerbuilder, you must learn everything written there and if I wake up in 3 AM and ask you what BAB progression have harper scout you must know the answer

For monks, they usually uses robes and either kamas or gloves but they can use any other weapon depending on what is monk in that build used for, just not shield neither any other armor than robe.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 17 avril 2011 - 05:56 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

Peteed wrote...

So games so complex that I have to read hundreds of pages on a wiki to start playing? I'm legally blind in one eye and not full vision in the other so reading more than a few pages is a struggle.

No you will make fine without any knowledge. But the knowledge makes the difference. If you know that you gain +1 ac for every 5 ranks in Tumble skill then you take it via rogue level and it will increase your character lifetime.

Also, if you are getting hard times during play, you can always lower game difficulty, or get an henchman.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               I generally multiclass Rogue/Combat classes. I would never pure class these.

classes that can benefit most from pure classing are generally spell casters.

As a newbie, I would recommend starting with one of the combat classes. You can build one of these adequately (but not optimally) as simple as just hitting the recommend button.

Spell casting classes are physically weaker and will require more planning, research care. It gets beyond simply character building, to spell choice, planning and usage. I would recommend you avoid unless really in love with the idea of spell casting and as Newbie I would recommend Clerics as they are durable and versatile spell casters.

I have been playing since the game came out and I don't play spell casters, but that is more personal preference.

Do you have an idea what you want to do/be just from reading class descriptions??

I enjoy character building. Give me some ideas and I could whip up a custom character that could give a template to follow/ignore as you see fit?
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lowlander, 17 avril 2011 - 05:51 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               Also few tricks and hints:

global

- dont rush into pack of enemy if you are not confident enough, instead use ranged weapon which will give you advantage of 1-3 shots before they reach you
- if you know that you will fight something, boost yourself with a potions and your own spells

classes

wizard/sorcerrer - take a fire memphit familiar, he is immortal at lower levels and you can cast burning hands/fireballs on him without hurting him. If you choose wizard, take General spell school!

bard - dont play bard class without at least 10-12 constitution score, thats really hard then at least for first levels, use ranged weapon and put skills into Perform so you can get better benefits from Bard Song

ranger - for NWN OC take undeads as first favored enemy, then humans, for SoU get goblinoids, reptilians, for HotU take Elves, outsiders

cleric - take trickery domain

monk - use ranged weapon from start until your AC/HPs get better (potions of owls wisdom/cats grace helps a lot)

druid - use your animal companion and summon another creature and use them as a meat shields, and you fight in bear shape after you boost yourself with spells

barbarian - use rage before combat cos you wont be able to fight for one round after you use it
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Peteed]

               

Lowlander wrote...

I generally multiclass Rogue/Combat classes. I would never pure class these.

classes that can benefit most from pure classing are generally spell casters.

As a newbie, I would recommend starting with one of the combat classes. You can build one of these adequately (but not optimally) as simple as just hitting the recommend button.

Spell casting classes are physically weaker and will require more planning, research care. It gets beyond simply character building, to spell choice, planning and usage. I would recommend you avoid unless really in love with the idea of spell casting and as Newbie I would recommend Clerics as they are durable and versatile spell casters.

I have been playing since the game came out and I don't play spell casters, but that is more personal preference.

Do you have an idea what you want to do/be just from reading class descriptions??

I enjoy character building. Give me some ideas and I could whip up a custom character that could give a template to follow/ignore as you see fit?

I love the idea of a druid shapeshifter.

Also would love a class that uses a quarterstaff to melee. (not many games tend to use staffs for melle they all tend to get used as stat sticks for casters and melee staffs appeal to me)

Also would love a Fighter that dual weilds longswords maybe as a weapon Master.

Also would love a stealthing, lockpicking, trap disarming (and maybe even trap using) rogue type who can still do kinda ok in melee but I don't want him to fail on picking and disarming too much and want him to be able to stealth and pick and disarm while in stealth if possible.

Other than that not sure :S those are my main classes I like the idea of.

Problem I find with alot of builds is they don't say take this, this and this at this level and then say the next level.

Basically if theres just a list of all the abilitys and stats you want in the end but no breakdown of which to take each level I end up for example not having the right feats by 40 to get weapons master cause the BAB I think it was is too low.

I ask alot I know '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Peteed]

               Grr it appeared after I retyped it all and submitted it >_<
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Peteed, 17 avril 2011 - 06:22 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               Well you can't be all of those things, at the same time, some are quite specialized.

Weapon Master have probably the highest requirements of any build (6 feats).  IMO it is seldom worth it. I only do it when playing high level modules (like Hordes of the Underdark).

Dual wielding requires another 3 feats which definitely makes the dual wielding weapon master a bigger PITA.

Dual wielding long swords is also mechanically a bad choice. As you need high dex for dual wielding, and Strength to hit with the long swords. My favorite style is actually large Two Handed weapons, like the Greatsword. You generally do as much damage (or more than dual wielding) but it costs you no feats.

Where are you playing?  The original Campaign in Neverwinter? SoU, HotU? 

What about racial preferences? Humans are the most versatile, but Dwarves rock too. :-)

I recommend a Human Rogue/Ranger/Fighter  if you really want to  try dual wielding and stealth. I could structure this in such a way that you aren't over commited and you could use any weapon style and delay Weapon specialization to give you time to find your favorite weapon/style.

Rangers get more skill points and stealth as a class skill and dual wielding as a class skill. Fighter is in there for Weapon specialization, and Rogues for all thier great abilities.

Say the word and I will build this out to an appropriate level and explain the choices a  bit...
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lowlander, 17 avril 2011 - 09:35 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               Example. Built out to Level 17 (end of the NWN campaign IIRC):
Ranger  or Rogue at least every other level to keep stealth maxed.
High strength, Nearly full fighter Attack Bonus, and good HP for toe to toe slugging.
Can use any weapon by level three, including dual bladed Swords (like quaterstaff with sword on each end).
Can try any/all weapons/styles (dual wield, sword&sheild, Two-handed), pick favorite weapon at level 6 (spec at .
Cleave gives extra attach when killing an enemy, great feat at low level.


Rogue(4), Ranger(9), Fighter(4), Human

STR: 17 (20)
DEX: 14
CON: 13
WIS: 8
INT: 14
CHA: 8

Human: (Quick to Master)
01: Rogue(1): Power Attack, Cleave     <- Rogue first for skill points
02: Fighter(1): Weapon Proficiency Exotic  
03: Ranger(1): Toughness, Favored Enemy: Humans, {Dual Wield}
04: Fighter(2): STR+1, Blind Fight, (STR=18)
05: Rogue(2): {Evasion}
06: Fighter(3): Weapon Focus
07: Ranger(2)
08: Fighter(4): STR+1, Weapon Specialization, (STR=19)
09: Ranger(3): Improved Critical
10: Rogue(3): {Uncanny Dodge I}
11: Ranger(4)
12: Ranger(5): STR+1, Dodge, Favored Enemy: Undeads, (STR=20)
13: Ranger(6)
14: Ranger(7)
15: Ranger(: Knockdown
16: Ranger(9): {Improved Two-Weapon Fighting}
17: Rogue(4)


Example use of skillpoints:
Skillpoints: 160


Disable Trap 12(14), Hide 20(22), Move Silently 20(22), Open Lock 12(14), Persuade 12(11), Search 20(22), Tumble 20(22), UMD 20(19), remaining skillpoints 24
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_NWN DM]

               Just start playing - you'll learn as you go.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Peteed]

               

Lowlander wrote...

Well you can't be all of those things, at the same time, some are quite specialized.

Weapon Master have probably the highest requirements of any build (6 feats).  IMO it is seldom worth it. I only do it when playing high level modules (like Hordes of the Underdark).

Dual wielding requires another 3 feats which definitely makes the dual wielding weapon master a bigger PITA.

Dual wielding long swords is also mechanically a bad choice. As you need high dex for dual wielding, and Strength to hit with the long swords. My favorite style is actually large Two Handed weapons, like the Greatsword. You generally do as much damage (or more than dual wielding) but it costs you no feats.

Where are you playing?  The original Campaign in Neverwinter? SoU, HotU? 

What about racial preferences? Humans are the most versatile, but Dwarves rock too. :-)

I recommend a Human Rogue/Ranger/Fighter  if you really want to  try dual wielding and stealth. I could structure this in such a way that you aren't over commited and you could use any weapon style and delay Weapon specialization to give you time to find your favorite weapon/style.

Rangers get more skill points and stealth as a class skill and dual wielding as a class skill. Fighter is in there for Weapon specialization, and Rogues for all thier great abilities.

Say the word and I will build this out to an appropriate level and explain the choices a  bit...

No no no I didn't mean all at once those were 4 different characters I was talking about.

I have OC and soU and HotU. so it'd be for all.

Human is ok '> I prefer Half Elf but theres not much benifit there as far as I know comppared to when you loose '>

Since weapon master dual weilding longswords is bad forget it then.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               

Peteed wrote...
I have OC and soU and HotU. so it'd be for all.

Use one character for the OC to get to about level 17-18 and retire it. Then a separate character for the SoU/HotU series to get to about level 27-28.  Sure you can start SoU with a level 18 PC but combat will be very boring and XP very low.  Of course, you can restart the exact same PC for SoU/HotU, if you like.

Human is ok '> I prefer Half Elf but theres not much benifit there as far as I know comppared to when you loose '>

Humans get an extra feat at create.  Half-elves get those elvish benefits that escapes me at the moment. Pick your poison.

Since weapon master dual weilding longswords is bad forget it then.

The Bio campaigns are so ungodly easy just choose whatever weapons you enjoy the most.  Some folks like to dual-wield katanas even with the DW penalties.  Why?  Cuz it looks so dang kewl to them so they just eat the penalties.  Now, if you needed to squeeze every possible AB you could from a build just to hit stuff, then at that time get picky, but for these campaigns the enemies are very easy to hit so just have fun learning.

edit: BTW, if you have Excel loaded on your machine Kamiryn's Build Calculator will crunch all the numbers for you before you even start a game.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par HipMaestro, 18 avril 2011 - 04:38 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               

HipMaestro wrote...

Humans get an extra feat at create.  Half-elves get those elvish benefits that escapes me at the moment. Pick your poison.

Nah.. Half elves just really suck. '>

The only use they have is building Arcane Archers... Otherwise humans are quite superior. An Extra feat to start, plus an extra skill point every level versus some useless watered down elf abilities.

Sure some people dual wield katatanas, but they are often doing that after getting some ridiculous weapon upgrades in HotU.

Trying that with normal weapons and the penalities you get from it would lead to some serious frustration in the OC or SoU.  Not to mention you will be disadvantaged on the strength side since you will need 15 dex to dual (or Ranger and light armor, then you also have an AC problem).

When someone is asking for mechanical build advice, it would be best to avoid a seriously gimped choice.