Author Topic: To Hell With NWN MMO! NWN3 Would Be Better!  (Read 1668 times)

Legacy_spool32

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To Hell With NWN MMO! NWN3 Would Be Better!
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2011, 05:41:23 pm »


               

spool32 wrote...
 www.avlis.org takes around $220/month to run,

Thats odd...server hosting shouldn't cost like more than 29$ a month....do you have all the staff on a payroll or what?

Anyway...I think you got the general idea right here....that we need to pay for it....


Avlis is operated by a non-profit corp called FOIG, Inc. We require transparency as part fo the by-laws, and publish all our financial info for the community to see. You can see all our financial data by clicking here and looking at the top few threads. None of the board members or the Avlis team make any money from the game - all the donations are applied toward current and future operating costs.

In short, we host our own modules (9 vms on a giant dual-quadcore server) rather than co-locating, because the volume and bandwidth make it more cost-efficient to do so. Also, we pay for hosting the forums, wiki, and image gallery, and for electricity to power and cool the server. Finally, we pay a small license fee to the creator of the Avlis gameworld for permission to use his intellectual property in an NWN setting.


spool32 wrote...
, the lack of community-developed content will make NWN3 a disappointment in my book.

Umm...you do know they will have "the forge" right...? Which will be a kind of toolset where you can build stuff for their world....and if I understand correctly even some other stuff like items....so I don't see a problem here really....

They are using the community to the maximum and I guess players could even get paid (?) for contributing. Also Cryptic are known for their skills in making everything customizable...at least on the PC itself....


I hate to be pessimistic about it, but customizing items or even linking a dungeon up to the main MMO is not going to compare to the things we do in the community now. There's no point in going into all the things we'll lack the ability to offer our players, because there are three words that express my pessimism perfectly:

No DM Client

Without a DM client, how can a PW function? It can't. 
               
               

               


                     Modifié par spool32, 23 février 2011 - 05:43 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_SuperFly_2000

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« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2011, 08:27:00 pm »


               

spool32 wrote...
I hate to be pessimistic about it, but customizing items or even linking a dungeon up to the main MMO is not going to compare to the things we do in the community now.

Well...you can't make a planescape map for example...if thats what you mean. Personally I am perfectly happy with Forgotten Realms....I don't need strange settings. Other than that I don't see how customizing will be hindered. Sure...it has to fit the balance as well somehow....I mean you can't like have uber loot in your dungeon....but again...other than that...I don't see a problem.

I see the future...in that a company is constantly adding and improving the game. Think of it as a big PW (or a couple of them actually - we don't know yet) with many players and humungus amounts of builders and custom content authors ....I am sure you get the picture....this is what NWN should have been....


spool32 wrote...
No DM Client

Without a DM client, how can a PW function? 

The DM client is nothing else than a toolset-light that you can use on the fly. Well..you can also interact with the players ofcourse...and control monsters and NPC's live. I don't know if you have read ALL the interviews...but a DM like client is not at all ruled out....

What I want to be extra clear is that the building of the world is far more important than the DM interaction. Building for me....is somehow a modern version of old-school DM:ing if you will. There is no way in hell a live DM can prepare the amount of adventure that a Builder can do beforehand....for the simple fact...that the builder has a lot more time to prepare the adventure.

Lets not get carried away with the live DM's stuff. For me at least NWN is very much a PvE experience...and even in DM controlled PW's your time playing with only other players and against computer controlled monsters/NPC's is easily much bigger than the DM-time you're gonna get. Don't say against me on this one because we both know it is true.

On even the most hardcore RP servers that are supposed to be very much DM monitored all the time I would recon DM interaction with the normal player is less than 5% of that players total time spent there. So again...lets not exagerate the DM's role in this. I would rather much accentuate the players role if we are looking at story and roleplaying in general but I don't want to get to deep in this...

I have seen a lot of DM performance that is pretty much worse than if there hadn't been a DM at all. Lets shoot some examples: DM getting carried away, wrecks balance totally. Gives the players way to much loot and XP or way to less...breaking balance and lets the players be gods or whatever. Next thing is DM favoritism and server nepotism. Well....it is there on virtually any server that pretends to be a RP server. Players are judged not by their actual roleplaying but totally different things and be sure that the friends of the DM's will have the highest level, the best loot and perhaps even become DM's themselves. Lets ask ourselves this: was it roleplaying? Not to talk about that the RP servers have turned into some kind of drama-queen-get-together....instead of 3-5 players heading out on something interesting....

Don't get me wrong...some of the most heart-throbbing experiences on a PW was with DM's...sure....but still...the PvE experience as whole is still more important to me than live DM's....even though.....as I said....live DM's or at least "improved builder-DM's" are definately not ruled out in the upcoming Neverwinter.

Ok...now I am getting carried away...anyway....what I wanted to say is that the way we play on PW's today is in no way perfect and also the PW's themselves are even further from it....so please....at least wait for the game before whining.

If the game is a dumbed down, WoW adapted shooter/beat-em-up thing like everything else released today that is another thing and probably the only real fear....
               
               

               


                     Modifié par SuperFly_2000, 23 février 2011 - 09:19 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_spool32

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« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2011, 10:30:05 pm »


               Right... so since you don't care about worlds other than FR, that's no big deal for you... but it's certainly a big deal for all of us who don't do FR worlds. Apart from that, though, what about:

Custom classes and PrCs

Custom playable races.

Spell additions.

Skill additions.

Dice rolling!

Quest triggers

Complex Dialog

NWNx hooks

Tilesets

Monsters



Basically everything that makes a custom PW what it is, will be missing. Making a dungeon with the stock tiles, stock monsters, and some loot, will not be anything like what we can do now.



---



I think yo're completely wrong about the DM client issues. Every complaint you have with current DM teams will still exist on whatever Cryptic creates, but you will NOT be able to have the good interactions.



Basically, we get a fairly uncustomizable world with few options and no true control, and twinking and favoritism but no good DM tools to run real plots either. Yay?



Ugh.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_SuperFly_2000

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« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2011, 11:00:29 pm »


               Most of what you said will be in there....



....but nobody is going to force you to buy the game....



...try not to think negative about everything....



...and for gods sake...at least give the game a chance to reveal itself as something else than what you think it will be...
               
               

               
            

Legacy_WebShaman

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« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2011, 12:20:57 pm »


               It ain't NWN v2.0

'nuff said.

Still waiting for that.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par WebShaman, 25 février 2011 - 12:21 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_SuperFly_2000

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« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2011, 02:55:38 pm »


               Well NWN v2.0 was released already...see how much good that did...
               
               

               


                     Modifié par SuperFly_2000, 25 février 2011 - 02:56 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_moilami

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« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2011, 03:30:29 pm »


               

Elton John is dead wrote...

NWN...I brought the deluxe version for £1 on Amazon, it was  Â£0.01 + £0.99 postage and packaging. At first, I thought it was average at best but after getting into the game, I've come to see how amazing it is. Not only did I enjoy the main campaign but I also enjoyed all the customization you could do and I enjoyed the easy to use toolset with which you can create almost anything with.

Bioware should have made NWN2 and then NWN3. This MMO just sounds a fail already what with it ditching classes.


Congrats for the purchase. It can be said to be "best buy", even though one can find excellent RPing from WoW if one looks for it enough and is lucky.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Eternal Phoenix

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« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2011, 03:50:25 pm »


               

moilami wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

NWN...I brought the deluxe version for £1 on Amazon, it was  Â£0.01 + £0.99 postage and packaging. At first, I thought it was average at best but after getting into the game, I've come to see how amazing it is. Not only did I enjoy the main campaign but I also enjoyed all the customization you could do and I enjoyed the easy to use toolset with which you can create almost anything with.

Bioware should have made NWN2 and then NWN3. This MMO just sounds a fail already what with it ditching classes.


Congrats for the purchase. It can be said to be "best buy", even though one can find excellent RPing from WoW if one looks for it enough and is lucky.


NWN is surely one of the best RPG's out there. My only wish is that more people come back to it.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_olivier leroux

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« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2011, 04:47:14 pm »


               

WebShaman wrote...

It ain't NWN v2.0

'nuff said.

Still waiting for that.

SuperFly_2000 wrote...

Well NWN v2.0 was released already...see how much good that did...


No, it wasn't, according to the point WebShaman intended to make. That was a different game, loved by some, hated by others, accepted by a third party but in any case not exactly the expected NWN v2.0. And this new release will be a different game, too. Nothing wrong with that but not what most people here are looking for as a worthy successor to such a versatile game / game creator / PnP simulator as is NWN. People are only having issues with the new release because its name is suggesting something different and could therefor be considered misleading.

Btw, being able to customize weapons and such for a company's MMO is not the same thing as creating your own tilesets, creatures, music and stories, introducing custom settings plus defining your own rules and becoming a dungeon master. You may not care for each and every single one of these aspects but others do and so we expect no less of a true successor to NWN. And just because the first attempt at creating one caused mixed feelings doesn't mean noone should try anymore.

That being said, who knows, maybe this new release is a nice game anyway. We'll see.  
               
               

               


                     Modifié par olivier leroux, 25 février 2011 - 05:04 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_SHOVA

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« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2011, 04:51:50 pm »


               

olivier leroux wrote...

No, it wasn't, according to the point WebShaman intended to make. That was a different game, loved by some, hated by others, accepted by a third party but in any case not exactly the expected NWN v2.0. And this new release will be a different game, too. Nothing wrong with that but not what most people here are looking for as a worthy successor to such a versatile game / game creator / PnP simulator as is NWN. And people are only having issues with the new release because its name is suggesting something different and could therefor be considered misleading.

Btw, being able to customize weapons and such for a company's MMO is not the same thing as creating your own tilesets, creatures, music and stories, introducing custom settings plus defining your own rules and be a dungeon master. You may not care for each and every single one of these aspects but others do and so we expect no less of a true successor to NWN. And just because the first attempt at creating one caused mixed feelings doesn't mean noone should try anymore.

That being said, who knows, maybe this new release a nice game anyway. We'll see.  


Well said Olivier. I'll will add that Probably some also feel that the only way for NWN to have a a true successor, is for Bio-Ware to make it. Since that is not going to happen...
               
               

               
            

Legacy_olivier leroux

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« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2011, 04:59:08 pm »


               I think whoever planned to give it a shot would also be well-advised to officially drop the D&D license which would, of course, cause complaints from large parts of the NWN community (and it would also mean the product couldn't share the same name with NWN anymore, just the concept). But I can't see how we'd get a worthy NWN v2.0 in the future with the involvement of Wizard of the Coast. Just my 2 cents...
:innocent:
               
               

               


                     Modifié par olivier leroux, 25 février 2011 - 05:02 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Frith5

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« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2011, 06:34:20 pm »


               To me it's pretty simple. This Neverwinter game is a new game. It is not Neverwinter Nights 3 or Neverwinter Nights anything. It is it's own beast. That does not mean I won't like it though! We could not be sure what NWN was gonna be like until it was actually out, and then it grew and developed from there anyway. I'm not suggesting this new game will be a replacement for NWN. I am saying it might be a fun game. I'd love to see a DM Client for it too, and maybe they will have one. I hope they do! Truth is, at this stage, it can't hurt this old gal. If anything, it might -might- introduce a few people to NWN, simply by association.

Instead of stabbing at shadows, I will wait, and watch, and probably give it a try when it is available.



Regards,

JFK
               
               

               
            

Legacy_SuperFly_2000

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« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2011, 08:32:46 pm »


               To me it sounds like a Neverwinter Nights game. I never played the original campaign and no other SP campaigns. This sounds like it could be the ultimate PW....lets hope it is....
               
               

               
            

Legacy_olivier leroux

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« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2011, 08:57:34 pm »


               Except that Neverwinter NIghts isn't the ultimate PW, it just allows you to create one, among other things. '<img'>
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Karvon

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« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2011, 12:01:45 am »


               I've no interest in MMO games. I will never buy/download a game I have to pay a monthly subscription fee to enjoy.



I want something I can recreate PNP DM'ed campaigns with. I want something that's relative fast and easy to build with.  I want something which allows for, and attracts, CC artists to expand the game. I want something based on 3/3.5 D&D, which bears a semblance to the PNP Ori thru 2nd ED games I grew up playing and am fully familiar with the rules and mechanics outside the game engine.



NWN1 meets all of those for me.  Nothing else since has.



That said, I welcome any games which might boost interest in NWN and, eventually, lead some new folks to try NWN1.  Furthermore, I'm not going to flame anyone for whatever floats their boat in gaming.  If you're having fun with a game, more power to you, just don't expect me to love what you do '<img'>



Karvon