NWN - A Question of Fantasy or Reality?

[Legacy_ehye_khandee]

               Yes, the OP is trying to carry over from the AOO post. *sigh*

ROLE play involves a ROLE. If I'm playing a human warrior, I should expect to have that human experience some human things, like hunger, thirst, fatigue, and act accordingly (ROLE PLAY). Dwarves elves and the lot are similar to humans too in these regards, tho the dwarves can slam down more booze and the elves prefer wine in moderation.

Fantasy? You act like elves, dragons and magic spells are not 'fantasy enough' for you, I think.

I do not treat PCs as indefatigable automatons. In my PW, all PCs hunger, thirst and fatigue (with a system that causes NO lag and runs just fine) - rest is not just for wizards anymore. Monsters often view PCs as FOOD items. Some monsters lurk near water holes to pounce on the unwary. These things can help PLAYERS to Role Play, giving them cues about the PC's condition and keeping the mechanical details out of the way. Simply put, if your PC's gear-weight to STR ratio is low, you'll fatigue faster, if you are in a hot place you H/T/F faster, if you run your PC will H/T/F faster. This is realism that HELPS THE FANTASY ALONG. Remember even JRRT had his characters seek out safe places to rest, and eat often too. This is PART of the setting, you need gear or you will suffer (gear as in food/drink and maybe a bedroll). Bedrolls and tents make resting more refreshing, tents protect from weather better than bedrolls, but some classes (rugged classes like monk, fighter, barbarian, druid, etc.) rest without any gear needed. Other types need gear or a restful place. Again, this is realism that promotes fantasy; we are not playing superman with elf ears after all (at least not on my server).

The long and the short of it is, whatever systems you choose to use, make sure they help promote immersion, not bog down the game. Systems like those I've evolved do this in a stellar way, no PLAYER BOOKKEEPING to look after, all automated, with appropriate on screen cues about the PC's condition. Food and drink can be had by scavenging in many cases, less likely in some environments like deserts or badlands. More, water and food can be poison, even disease vectors, so think twice before you steal the dead goblin's backpack full of 'meat'.

Fantasy and realism need not be mutually exclusive. A dose of realism can actually help immersion and therefore the fantasy.

This is not day/night opposites, but complementary things. After all, when you strike an opponent with a sword you expect them to (realistically) take damage, so why stop there? Especially if adding realism can (and it does in the right measure and with clean code) help sustain 'suspension of disbelief' and therefor supports the fantasy.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ehye_khandee, 29 août 2010 - 05:02 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_ffbj]

               Yeah pretty much have to go with EK on this, though for my tastes his world is a bit too much on the realism side.  Though I think coming out of the sewers stinking to high heaven is a nice touch, but maybe that was the Silver Marches. It does add more subtlety to the game though, this realism stuff.  Actually even with a lot of realism the game premise is still quite fantastic.    



I will say that you can go overboard, as with one player I had who quit playing after some time.  His complaint was that he wanted to relax and that coming into my world was not realxing in that he had to stay on his toes all the time.  Too much tension for him after a tense pressure packed day at work.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_tmanfoo]

               Fantasy is great, but not when it's completely over the top.  If something is extremely unbelievable, it can quickly detract from the game.  Some things just have to be justified in some logical manner so we can relate to the possibility, and in turn believe it.



I like some level of realism, but not to the degree that after 4972 steps within a 12 hour period, I have to stop and take a rest in some out of the way place as to not get eaten by a slightly rabid squirrel.  Getting thirsty is fine, if I have a canteen of some sort.  Having to boil the water to purge any parasites is not.  Hello, magic anyone, c’mon now.  Requiring both of these in order to rest is lot of work, especially when they need to be obtained somewhere within the 4972 steps.



Anyways, somewhere near the middle of the road for me as well.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Darkfire_Avlis]

               I like a fantasy setting that follows a set of rules. Those rules are to be determined, but I am a major fan of continuity and fantasy, in my opinion, is not an excuse to disregard such a thing.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Bubba McThudd]

               An example of realism that I think enhances immersion is the recoverable missile ammo system I use in my mod.  I alway disliked the fact that arrows and bolts were sold in bundles of 99 and had no weight.  A PC can literally carry thousands of arrows and run around unimpeded!

In my mod, ammo has weight and stacks at 24 for arrows, bolts and bullets, 6 for throwing and axes.  When you shoot at a monster and miss, the ammo is lost.  If you hit, the ammo is added to the monster's droppable inventory so you can recover the ammo when you loot the corpse.

What this means in practical terms is that archer PCs can purchase high quality arrows sooner (as you don't have to save up for 99) and you can keep using them if you are accurate.

The system can surprise you too; I threw an axe at an orc across a chasm and hit him.  The axe entered his inventory as programmed - and the bastard threw it right back!
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_TSMDude]

               

ffbj wrote...
Though I think coming out of the sewers stinking to high heaven is a nice touch, but maybe that was the Silver Marches. It does add more subtlety to the game though, this realism stuff. Actually even with a lot of realism the game premise is still quite fantastic.

(That was us and in our defense you did step in poo....)
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_ehye_khandee]

               

ffbj wrote...

Nice to see 

Yeah pretty much have to go with EK on this, ...  I think coming out of the sewers stinking to high heaven is a nice touch....

Yeah, that was ArgentumRegio, we track dirty, stinky and more and the NPCs react to them too.

Nice to see other servers have also picked up on this notion - use the PC's senses and you immerse them all the more!


               
               

               

                     Modifié par ehye_khandee, 29 août 2010 - 07:54 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_TSMDude]

               Nice...we use alot of that stuff ourselves.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MingWolf]

               I prefer a realistic fantasy.  Not too much fluff but grounded enough where I can feel my character in his or her shoes and "escape".  Of course, for a game, I don't want to go too real where I'm actually doing the same chores of day to day life.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Jenna WSI]

               

Sharona Curves wrote...

The last thing I want while relaxing and trying to enjoy some entertainment is the curse of reality. 

If I wanted to pretend I had a job mining/smelting/wood chopping, or I wanted to pretend I needed a bedroll to get a comfortable nights rest, pretend I need to find food in order to survive, or any of that other "reality" stuff I'd shut down the game, open up the front door and step outside and realize I am not some 3 foot bearded dwarf babe in a chainmail bikini slinging a blood-soaked battleaxe.

Pretty much said it for me.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Genisys]

               Yeah Sharon nailed it with those words, no doubt, I feel exactly like she does.. I want fantasy...
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Zesvotzashne]

               Eh. The way I see it. Screw logic. Never needed it to believe anything. All it does it clog your mind & natural intuition with crap. Instead of just doing things you question everything. Often resulting in mistakes because the first (And correct) thought gets questioned and dismissed because it doesn't seem "logical".

The best stories to me are the ones who go where ever and don't care about all this fantasy and reality business, they are too busy being what they are for that. And I find that most enjoyable. I really cannot stand stories that try too hard crippling themselves with logic to make the player "believe", it's like they say for those who believe no proof is necessary, for those who don't no proof will suffice.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Zesvotzashne, 06 septembre 2010 - 01:03 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_jmlzemaggo]

               I'd go for Fantasy, as when a game does it, fantasy, very well, it feels even more real to me... than any "Reality" game...



               
               

               
            

[Legacy_TSMDude]

               You can easily do both if you try. Add in a spell componets system and spells seem more realistic.



It should take something fantastic to do something fantastic and the reality is trying to find it. Confusing but worth mentioning.



Google Ralph Kosters Rules and you will see what I mean.