New NWN online game not a rumor anymore!

[Legacy_NorthWolf]

               Some people simply do not support or endorse the pay-to-play model; some people feel strongly enough that they actually will not purchase pay-to-play games, no matter how good they are. If you don't feel the same way, no one's actually sitting here beating you with a stick to make you avoid buying the game.



In my personal experience it's never worth it, neither the pay-to-play or the micro-transaction models. I often feel like I'm either:



1.) Getting the equivalent of patches, but I have to pay for them.

2.) Getting content that I should have already received on release that conveniently went missing.



But that's really just me.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_bhaal123]

               I can remember having a WoW subscription years ago. When I didnt feel like playing after a couple of weeks I simply toss the game aside for a while. It really sucks when you want to play again that you have to buy another subscription just to be able to access your character. I always had the feeling I whas throwing money away by not playing which doesnt encourage "having fun".

Guild Wars has a far more superior business model and so do D&DO en LOTRO. I even predict that this Neverwinter game will be a failure if it uses the subscription based model since there are allready so many alternatives that cost less and are even F2P.

We will see.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par bhaal123, 31 décembre 2010 - 03:33 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Frith5]

               Guild Wars has a far more superior business model and so do D&DO en LOTRO.



Er, superior how? If you mean, nicer for you, than sure enough. If you mean for the business itself, uh, have you looked at WoW's success lately, compared to those other games you mention? It blows them outta the water, without any shred of doubt.



I don't play WoW, or any subscription games, but I've paid for my son's WoW account a lot of times, and it was money well spent. Look, if you buy a ticket to the latest movie, and a popcorn, you've exceeded WoW's cost for the month. That means one movie a month to equal it. Also, when you leave the theater, do you ask for your permanent copy of the movie, so you can watch it anytime you want? Not just watch it, but watch it at the theater on the big screen, I mean. Of course not! Even if you said, "Hey, I'll pay you what it's worth to ME to buy the movie! Whaddaya say, I give you $60, and any time I want, I get to fire up the equipment and watch MY MOVIE here, okay?

Do you tell your phone company you bought the dang phone, why do they keep sending you bills each month?

Do you tell the electric company to cease ripping you off with these monthly extortions, since you already paid to have the service installed once?



The subscription model is not ripping off, and it's not stupid. It's different. It also is likely the future of things. Nobody is forced to use it (like I said, I don't), but we all use one form or another of the model.



I don't play subscription games right now, but if a game comes along that I feel is worth the monthly fee, you bet I'll pay it. I pay a LOT for internet on a monthly basis, after all, and a LOT for tv on a monthly basis too.



Happy New Year, everyone!!



JFK
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_NorthWolf]

               I doubt it'll be the absolute future, but, yes, I have no doubt the subscription model is going to remain popular. It doesn't mean I'm inclined to buy into it, as I've yet to find a game that was such high quality that it seriously justified me paying money every month to access its content. The only time I might feel this as "more fair" is if the initial cost for the game is small.

As for likening this to a movie at the theatre, you can always go to a local gaming centre and pay a few bucks to play some games for an hour. That's a closer analogy than going to the movies, because when I go to the movies I haven't bought the content of the movie. However, if I do buy a movie, it's a little silly if they want to charge me every time I want to watch it. Then it's more like I'm paying for something then renting it over... and over... and over again even though I "own it".

Anyway, differences of opinion in the end. Some people like it, some people don't. I just find myself unable to feel it's worth my money, especially considering I do tend to play games on and off.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par NorthWolf, 31 décembre 2010 - 06:32 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_seventhslayer]

                I am really excited about this!
               
               

               

                     Modifié par seventhslayer, 31 décembre 2010 - 08:09 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Vansen Elamber]

               

NorthWolf wrote...

Some people simply do not support or endorse the pay-to-play model; some people feel strongly enough that they actually will not purchase pay-to-play games, no matter how good they are. If you don't feel the same way, no one's actually sitting here beating you with a stick to make you avoid buying the game.

In my personal experience it's never worth it, neither the pay-to-play or the micro-transaction models. I often feel like I'm either:

1.) Getting the equivalent of patches, but I have to pay for them.
2.) Getting content that I should have already received on release that conveniently went missing.

But that's really just me.

I think that if we are talking about MMO's here, that they need to have a monthly subscription fee because a really good MMO is never finished it is always in development so that new content can be added. In order to have the funds to support quality new content, which includes writers for storylines, artists, coders, voice actors, the entire cast and crew so to speak you can not have talented folks that will stick around if they are volunteering their skills, it just won't work.

The MMO or any multiplayer online game has to be considered a work in progress up until the developer releases the code to the public domain or they just shut down their servers due to lack of interest. A good MMO developer will have the game ready to play at launch, but the term "finished" can never be applied to multiplayer online games, because as soon as it is finished thats when the servers will shut down shortly after that.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_SuperFly_2000]

               

Vansen Elamber wrote...
...the term "finished" can never be applied to multiplayer online games

Actually it can....but that is besides the point a little bit.

The thing is....what they are really doing....is devlivering a persistent world. As we all know a PW is more enjoyable if it undergoes some development while you are playing. Both technically and expanding the world itself.


To jump to something completely different I just want to quench the fears a little bit about this game being like all other new ultra mainstream games...this game will not be released to consoles for starters. That gives hopes at least for me...because it indirectly states that this game is too comlicated for that....

If you have any other reasons why you think this game will be good...please post them...as I am tired of negativity on the subject.... (so lets think positive).
               
               

               

                     Modifié par SuperFly_2000, 12 février 2011 - 10:25 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Drewskie]

               

To jump to something completely different I just want to quench the fears a little bit about this game being like all other new ultra mainstream games...this game will not be released to consoles for starters. That gives hopes at least for me...because it indirectly states that this game is too comlicated for that....

Huh?  It's an mmo...  Has there ever been a successful mmo on console?  Not that I know of.  Just because it's pc only doesn't mean it will have complex gameplay... just look at some of the other mmo's...



               
               

               
            

[Legacy_SuperFly_2000]

               You are right...similar games actually don't go to consoles...
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Urk]

               Just my 2 cents. I don't buy pay to play subscriptions either. Not that it matters much. I don't much care for mommorpogers so I probably won't give NWN3 much attention anyway, but I blew hundreds of dollars subscribing to Ultima Online back in the day. What a freakin' waste of money. I won't be doing that again. Turbine has a good F2P model. If Atari knows what's good for them they'll try to do something similar.



Of course the issue with that is that Atari has traditionally shown a complete inability to grasp what is and isn't in their own best interests.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_UFOP]

               Interesting...I've heard about this game before but I never heard what ruleset it would be using.



4th edition, huh? Do any of you have a good amount of hours in the PnP game? I've DMed and played in quite a 4e games. It's definitely not my cup of tea, and I've switched over to Pathfinder (modified D&D 3.5, which is becoming very popular in the PnP community).



WebShaman, I have to disagree with you that 4e is a roll-playing game and not a roleplaying game. There is nothing that prevents you as a player from roleplaying in 4e. However, 4e has been created in such a way that, strangely, almost makes players, even veteran players, into limiting their thinking when playing the game and kind of indirectly forces them to roll-play.



For example, characters powers have flavor text on them. So, instead of describing one's action any way you want, the fact that the flavor text exists makes players think that if they want to use that power, they need to describe it in such a way. The existence of so called "powers" is almost the game roleplaying for the player. That's one thing that I really hate about 4e. The rules focus is definitely on combat and powers, and it almost seems like adventures need to be created around those concepts.



SuperFly_2000: 4e in one sense has darted off drastically onto another path. There are changes that make people wonder if this is still D&D. For example, PC's now have what are called "powers", and they have at-will, encounter, and daily powers. The fighter no longer says, "I attack with my broadsword", he now says, "DM, I use my Flash of Cuts power on the orc. If I hit the orc twice he takes 5 ongoing damage. Got that? Ok." Encounter powers are just that, every encounter you can use it once. Daily powers once a day. The Wizards have been totally nerfed. No longer do you choose spells from a huge list. You only get a few limited spell choices depending on the level. Basically, every class and their powers is based on the Vancian system in some sense.



Here's an example of a power stat block:

Flash of Cuts Fighter Attack 27

Your flurry of attacks are so fast it seems like they are just one strike. It is only later on that your opponent realizes you have wounded them in several areas.

Encounter * Martial, Weapon

Standard Action Melee weapon

Target: One or more creatures

Attack: Strength vs. AC, three attacks

Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage. If at least two attacks hits the same target, the target takes 5 ongoing damage (save ends).

Weapon: If you are wielding a light blade, the target receives a penalty to the saving throw equal to your Dexterity modifier.



4e would make a great RPG single-player/online game. As a PnP it's fun for some, but it totally fails for me.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Elhanan]

               Personally, what I disliked of what I saw of the 4E rules is the attempt to micro-manage every tad, bit, and nano-second of combat at the expense of imagination, flow, and storytelling.

I started playing PnP with the old brown books in the Christmas of 1975, jumped into AD&D, frowned at the kits of 2E while embracing Al-Qadim and other settings, relished and embraced 3E and some of the fixes offered in 3.5E, and have quit completely mainly because of 4E.

Now I hold to NWN1, and look to see what happens with DA and other IP rules.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_SuperFly_2000]

               As I said many times...they are making a computer game out of 4ed and thus things from it will be lost and other things will be added...just like it ALWAYS is when you're making a computer game out of a PnP game. So lets see what they make of this before more whining please.



DA seems nice but it is not multiplayer and dare I say it....things seem to have been severely simplified from NWN....
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Elhanan]

               Not whining; simply stating that between a MMO - possibly the most problematic gaming platform - along with a rules set that I have rejected - that I will not be waiting to see what happens. I simply choose other available options that appear to be more enjoyable, managable, and RP friendly.

However, I do hope that the results do not disappoint those that do wait. It is already sad to see what PnP has become; hope that the CRPG experience is far better.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_SuperFly_2000]

               

Elhanan wrote...
MMO - possibly the most problematic gaming platform

The only thing that MMO says is that the game has a lot of players and that they are online. It says nowhere that it has to be childish, dumbed down, follow established frames, mainstream, non D&D like. Yet every MMO out there is like that. Hopefully there is room for a different game and hopefully Cryptic are making it now...(?).

I'll agree with you that for some reason it seems problematic to do this...

Elhanan wrote...
- along with a rules set that I have rejected -

As I said....they are making a computer game of it....so lets wait and see. I don't play Pen and Paper myself anymore (haven't for a long time) but I love the D&D in NWN.
 

Elhanan wrote...
I simply choose other available options that appear to be more enjoyable, managable, and RP friendly..

I hope you are not refering to DA. You do realise that DA lacks the one and most important ingredient for being anything remotely close to a PNP game...other people!

Elhanan wrote...
However, I do hope that the results do not disappoint those that do wait.

It has been a long road of dissapointments. We are not playing a 9 year old game for nothing.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par SuperFly_2000, 21 février 2011 - 09:42 .