New NWN online game not a rumor anymore!

[Legacy_SuperFly_2000]

               

Eradrain wrote...

1.  WoW is the best multiplayer game ever made.  It just is, there's a reason it has absolute market-share dominance.

Actually it is the most successfull game ever, saleswise, all cathegorys...not just multiplayer games.

Still...it doesn't appeal to me.

Eradrain wrote...
2.  If you have never played WoW, I don't want to see you commenting on what makes it good or bad,

I have played a WoW trial. Enough to know that it does not appeal to me and that it looks childish.

Eradrain wrote...
3.  WoW is neither marketed toward kids, nor predominantly played by children.  The average WoW player is in the 21-35 age bracket, is employed, and owns their own home (And male, if it matters).

Ok...maybe I got carried away a bit there. Of course it is not only kids playing this game. It is just that it looks childish to me.

Eradrain wrote...
I RP on NWN servers, I PvP and raid in WoW.

It is good that you admit to this. It kind of even more takes away the "roleplay" in WoW doesn't it. Because after all...it is roleplaying games that we are talking about here no?

Eradrain wrote...
On the subject of the upcoming Cryptic game - The strength of NWN is its user-generated content, and I'm not talking about the stuff you make in the toolset so much as the stuff you make out of it and turn into haks.  Judging by the Massively interview, they won't have any support for creating new classes, new textures, new sounds, and the like.  That turns me off, personally.  If I wanna play an online RPG without user-generated content, I'll just play Diablo 3 when it comes out.

Actually they talk a lot about user made content. They also talk about it in a kind of really new and refreshing way. I mean in NWN1 you could build pretty easily (somewhat). Now you will be able to do that even easier AND it will instalntly be avaliable to all. Which is kind of groundbreaking. Of course this kind of building will be restricted somehow because otherwise all the kids would build vampire cities or something....and a fantasy D&D game can not be solely devoted to that (just as an example) so it has to be restricted in some way.

You mentioning Diablo here makes me squirm even more. But sure...I will not look down on the action aspects of the game (also in NWN). To each their own.

BardKesnit wrote...
I've been reading the info on this game and admit it worries me.

We are all worried about the outcome of this.

However I am endlessly happy that I finally read NWN and multiplayer in the same sentence upon a game release.

BardKesnit wrote...
1) Only 5 classes?

Well....its better than 500....

The good thing is that we wont have half the players running around as half-dragon, half-fiend, planetouched, vampire gimps.

BardKesnit wrote...
2) Forced grouping concerns me. 

Playing alone concerns me even more....

BardKesnit wrote...
I understand that D&D is a cooperative game 

Yeah....that is the essence of it.

BardKesnit wrote...
And maybe Cryptic will come up with a better way of getting groups together than Turbine did. This is an area where I have to just wait and see.

Umm...Turbine...wait...are you talking about DDO now?

Well...thats not a roleplaying game the way I see it...

BardKesnit wrote...
3) A post in the NWN2 forums quotes a Cryptic rep saying the Forge will not allow custom content to the extent NWN1 & 2 had. It's like the content creator in City of Heroes, which does not allow non-combat quests, requires linear quests, and does not have a conversation option.

It being easy and restrictive is essential as they want to integrate it more into the game...which is groundbreaking.

Let's not get carried away with details about how it will be though.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par SuperFly_2000, 26 août 2010 - 08:53 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_BardKesnit]

               

SuperFly_2000 wrote...

Eradrain wrote...
I RP on NWN servers, I PvP and raid in WoW.

It is good that you admit to this. It kind of even more takes away the "roleplay" in WoW doesn't it. Because after all...it is roleplaying games that we are talking about here no?

It is possible to RP in MMOs, even WoW. I was in an RP guild in Age of Conan, and I've heard people talk about their RP guilds in WoW. Granted, the RP was seperate from the gameplay.

Actually they talk a lot about user made content. They also talk about it in a kind of really new and refreshing way. I mean in NWN1 you could build pretty easily (somewhat). Now you will be able to do that even easier AND it will instalntly be avaliable to all.

But it still comes back to what can be made. If user-made content is as restrictive as it looks like it will be, where is the incentive to play user-made when the main game has more variety and options?

However I am endlessly happy that I finally read NWN and multiplayer in the same sentence upon a game release.

NWN1 and 2 both had multi-player at release. That is nothing new.

SuperFly_2000 wrote...

BardKesnit wrote...
1) Only 5 classes?

Well....its better than 500....

The good thing is that we wont have half the players running around as half-dragon, half-fiend, planetouched, vampire gimps.

*chuckle* Very true. But there is a happy medium between.

SuperFly_2000 wrote...

BardKesnit wrote...
2) Forced grouping concerns me. 

Playing alone concerns me even more....

Playing solo at one point does not mean the game can be solo-ed.

As I said before, I played DDO when it first came out and one of the things I really disliked was there was that the only things that could be done without a group was go to the bank or run around picking up / turning in quests. A lot of time was spent standing around, looking for a group to run a dungeon with. There was no option to hop on briefly and get a quick quest done. Unless server population was high at the time, it usually took at least 30 minutes to get a group together, then the time to run the dungeon.

If someone has a set group to play with and can hop right on and into a dungeon (like raiding in WoW), it would not be an issue. For anyone without that, it's a huge waste of time.

SuperFly_2000 wrote...

BardKesnit wrote...
And maybe Cryptic will come up with a better way of getting groups together than Turbine did. This is an area where I have to just wait and see.

Umm...Turbine...wait...are you talking about DDO now?

I did say I played DDO when it came out and was making comparisons to it, yes.

Well...thats not a roleplaying game the way I see it...

Nor is NWN, unless the players make it so. I've seen PWs that have a heavy dungeon-crashing tone and others that are more into RP. And as I said above, it is possible to RP in MMOs, but the players have to be the ones to make the effort.

SuperFly_2000 wrote...

BardKesnit wrote...
3) A post in the NWN2 forums quotes a Cryptic rep saying the Forge will not allow custom content to the extent NWN1 & 2 had. It's like the content creator in City of Heroes, which does not allow non-combat quests, requires linear quests, and does not have a conversation option.

It being easy and restrictive is essential as they want to integrate it more into the game...which is groundbreaking.

No it isn't. Cryptic already did it in City of Heros, which is what the Forge is based on.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par BardKesnit, 26 août 2010 - 12:52 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_SuperFly_2000]

               

BardKesnit wrote...
It is possible to RP in MMOs, even WoW. I was in an RP guild in Age of Conan, and I've heard people talk about their RP guilds in WoW. Granted, the RP was seperate from the gameplay.

Well ok...yes...you can probably roleplay in an empty room with a toaster.

I will probably end up over my head if I try to explain roleplaying. Instead I will mention what I most assimilate it with. That is oldschool D&D and Forgotten Realms.

I dont want to play with other characters looking like genetically modified mixrace beings in a world that looks like it was taken from Unreal.

And no...you are wrong....roleplaying is not something you can separate from the gameplay.

BardKesnit wrote...
But it still comes back to what can be made. If user-made content is as restrictive as it looks like it will be, where is the incentive to play user-made when the main game has more variety and options?.

You are just not visualizing this in a positive maner.

BardKesnit wrote...
NWN1 and 2 both had multi-player at release. That is nothing new.

Just because you slap multiplayer on to a single player game doesn't make it a fully devoted multiplayer game.

This time they are makign a multiplayer game and slapping on single player. So it is a mile wide difference.

BardKesnit wrote...
As I said before, I played DDO ...

DDO is an arcade game the way I see it. It is just so fast paced that every roleplaying feelig for me would be out the window.

Also you're loaded up with phat l3wt from the start already. Another atmosphere breaking element.

The thing is that we are so different that we will never understand each other. I see you are playing WoW clones and also single player games.

Also I am just guessing you actually never played Neverwinter Nights 1 in multiplayer on PW servers?
               
               

               

                     Modifié par SuperFly_2000, 26 août 2010 - 01:51 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_SuperFly_2000]

               It is a shame Cryptic doesn't have a forum.

Well...probably it would be full of frustrated WoW kids (like the SW:ToR forums)...so maybe its good in a way....
               
               

               

                     Modifié par SuperFly_2000, 26 août 2010 - 01:50 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_SuperFly_2000]

               Also Mystra is dead in the game which is very stupid....and some parts of world is supposedly twisted because of this.



Now they have a good reason to turn this game into a planescape torment thing...



Maybe I am just getting to old for computer games....
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_B_Harrison]

               What'd concern me most is having one, narrow view of what is "correct" roleplay or gameplay forced onto me in an RPG, by developers (or judgemental players) who likely couldn't roleplay their way out of a paper bag.

And that's why I'm not optimistic about this new "Neverwinter" game -- besides the likelihood of it being a rushed release by a developer no gamer on the internet seems to respect -- we won't, apparently, be able to develop and host our own PWs from scratch. Take away single player adventures(?) and what have you got left to be optimistic about? 4th edition D&D?

Maybe I'm wrong and it'll be the hobbyist modder's ultimate versatile RPG platform to end all RPG platforms, but we seem to have more reasons to doubt it than not.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par B_Harrison, 26 août 2010 - 02:02 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_BardKesnit]

               

SuperFly_2000 wrote...

And no...you are wrong....roleplaying is not something you can separate from the gameplay.

Yes, it is. Let me tell you about the RP guild I was in in AoC...

Guilds in AoC could set up their cities, which were instanced locations that only members of the guild or invited guests could enter. My guild's city was set up with it's own government (seperate from guild leadership), and each PC belonged to a section of the city (chosen by the player when they joined). Sections included the military, merchants, spies, and slaves. Leadership in each caste was seperate from PC level, and it wasn't uncommon to have a senior member of a section be a low level PC because the player used that PC for RP and not for playing the game. Slave PCs could be owned by any PC who wanted to be a Master, and again, level did not matter.

The guild city was run as a city. The military did drills. Spies did recon on other cities (which had to be RP-ed because of course, we couldn't enter other cities. This was mostly done by meeting OOC with "traitors" from another guild and passing along infomation.)

In no way did any of this affect the gameplay. As I said, leadership in the city was based on player preference, not PC level. If the player went into the world to play the game, there could no RP at all. (If there was, it was in the guild chat channel and did not affect the gameplay.) 

SuperFly_2000 wrote...

BardKesnit wrote...
But it still comes back to what can be made. If user-made content is as restrictive as it looks like it will be, where is the incentive to play user-made when the main game has more variety and options?.

You are just not visualizing this in a positive maner.

Let's just say I am cynical, and am basing my comments on things said by Cryptic and by people who have played CoH.

SuperFly_2000 wrote...

BardKesnit wrote...
As I said before, I played DDO ...

DDO is an arcade game the way I see it. It is just so fast paced that every roleplaying feelig for me would be out the window.

Because you choose to play it that way. It would be possible to RP in DDO, the same way you can RP in any multi-player game, but it requires the players to actually do it. Being an MMO does not mean it has to be "hack and slash" with no RP.

Also you're loaded up with phat l3wt from the start already. Another atmosphere breaking element.

Maybe now, but when it came out, WBL was about what it would be in a PnP game. 

Also I am just guessing you actually never played Neverwinter Nights 1 in multiplayer on PW servers?

I have, actually. I tried a few, and they were all the same. I found it horribly dull because it was just like an MMO - do as much as you can solo, then stand around and look for people to group with. Maybe occasionally, I'd be lucky enough to stumble across people RP-ing in town. During quests, there was no RP, just run through the quest and finish as fast as possible.

And these were on a servers that labled themselves RP servers. (I can't remember which ones, as it was several years ago.) 
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_SuperFly_2000]

               Well yeah...you're probably right...but at least you have a somewhat medieval "fantasy" looking game (usually...depending on the server of course).
               
               

               

                     Modifié par SuperFly_2000, 26 août 2010 - 02:18 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Eradrain]

               You don't need medieval fantasy to roleplay.  Are you saying you can't RP in the Warcraft setting because of the setting itself?

What about White Wolf's World of Darkness setting?  That takes place in the modern day, and last I checked, people were buying those books and RPing just fine.

Honestly Superfly, it seems to me like you've got a pretty rigid understanding of Roleplay.  Like if it isn't D&D, it's somehow not valid.  That's not the case.

I've been roleplaying in some way, shape or form since I was a kid who could scribble maps onto sheet paper.  I don't need D&D to do it anymore than I need a bicycle to get around - it's just means to an end.  I could take a car, a train, a plane, or I could walk.

On the subject, again, of Cryptic's Neverwinter:  I don't know why you're so viciously defending the project against our reasonable concerns, given the studio's history, and given what we like about NWN, and given that according to the interviews, very little of what we like about NWN is being put into their game.

You're free to love what you read about it, but trying to convince us that we're wrong is an exercise in time-wasting.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Eradrain, 26 août 2010 - 04:51 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Genisys]

               I'd like to speak freely here, and I don't intend to step on anyone's toes either..

I've never really played NWN for the "Roleplaying" or "Storyline" factor, in fact, when I play D&D most of us had a great time role-playing while adventuring, but that's the fine difference in playing the game and just standing around talking for me.  Which seems to be the major focus for some, which is cool, but it's definitely not my cup o tea.  I hope this new Neverwinter has a great storyline, and while roleplaying should always be an option, there are multiple elements which makes D&D / NWN so fun, and it's not really anyone ONE focus, but all of these things that makes D&D & NWN great.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Genisys, 27 août 2010 - 04:55 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_SuperFly_2000]

               

Eradrain wrote...
You don't need medieval fantasy to roleplay. Are you saying you can't RP in the Warcraft setting because of the setting itself?

What about White Wolf's World of Darkness setting? That takes place in the modern day, and last I checked, people were buying those books and RPing just fine.

I didn't talk so much about other settings....but yes, the setting in WoW really doesn't immerse me or "prepare" me for roleplaying.

Eradrain wrote...
On the subject, again, of Cryptic's Neverwinter:  I don't know why you're so viciously defending the project against our reasonable concerns, given the studio's history, and given what we like about NWN, and given that according to the interviews, very little of what we like about NWN is being put into their game.

Hehe...I don't know if it is "vicious" but I am amazed at the amount of negativity. A lot of the text in the interviews also highlights good parts from NWN. There are only a few things that can be interpreted as potentially being bad.

Maybe I am just happy that someone finally is making something about NWN but with multiplayer in the front seat. Because this is clearly something that always have been "slapped on" the final product. Now they instead slap on single player to the multiplayer game...which makes a lot more sense.

The game could potentially become something like Diablo...in which case my interest will drop dramatically of course.

So yes...I really am finding it hard to believe they are actually making a game for a perhaps narrow segment but why not think positive while the opposite has not yet been proved.

@Genisys, totally agree there.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par SuperFly_2000, 27 août 2010 - 10:51 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Shia Luck]

               

SuperFly_2000 wrote...

BardKesnit wrote...
NWN1 and 2 both had multi-player at release. That is nothing new.

Just because you slap multiplayer on to a single player game doesn't make it a fully devoted multiplayer game.

This time they are makign a multiplayer game and slapping on single player. So it is a mile wide difference.
....

Maybe I am just happy that someone
finally is making something about NWN but with multiplayer in the front
seat. Because this is clearly something that always have been "slapped
on" the final product. Now they instead slap on single player to the
multiplayer game...which makes a lot more sense.

Actually, nwn was always designed with the DM client as focus, specifically for small groups to MP together. It was the SP parts of the release that were added in late in the day. BW didn't officially support PWs, (or mini MMOs we might as well call them), but MP was always the design concept.

Have fun '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Genisys]

               It's paramount to understand that, RPGs Thrive and Survive as long as it holds player's interest, maybe NWN2 was a fail because it couldn't hold the players & builder's interest like NWN 1 did.

Nevertheless, if it has a great storyline, plot, and gameplay, it still must have one other major factor..

Re-Playability, for if players play it once and say "Dang, that was sort of lame", they won't return..

If the players play the game and say: "WOW" (no pun intended), "That was awesome, I can't wait to play again.."  Then you know you got a hit...

If it holds true to D&D, considering R.A. Salvatore, which is more of a combat focused writer, is writing the storyline, which he has great depth in writing about characters, I'm sure this game will have a good storyline, considering he is the #1 author in D&D Books, more or less, then I think the game has a good chance of being fun...

If the game is fun, regardless of ALL OTHER FACTORS, people will play it, the only thing that remains to be seen is how engrossing will it keep players peeled to their bleeping computers... '>
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Genisys, 29 août 2010 - 02:06 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Eradrain]

               

Genisys wrote...

It's paramount to understand that, RPGs Thrive and Survive as long as it holds player's interest, maybe NWN2 was a fail because it couldn't hold the players & builder's interest like NWN 1 did.

Where does it say that NWN2 failed?  The community is as big or bigger than NWN1's.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_SuperFly_2000]

               

Shia Luck wrote...
Actually, nwn was always designed with the DM client as focus, specifically for small groups to MP together. It was the SP parts of the release that were added in late in the day. BW didn't officially support PWs, (or mini MMOs we might as well call them), but MP was always the design concept.

Actually, No. The focus on NWN1 was primarily to make a single player campaign and to sell copies of the game. You are right in a way though. Multiplayer was also in focus but it wasn't the primary focus....which is the big difference compared to the announcment of Cryptic's new Neverwinter game.

Eradrain wrote...
Where does it say that NWN2 failed?  The community is as big or bigger than NWN1's.

In the multiplayer area it failed mizerably. There are so many indications of that.

NWN2 was even more focused on selling single player campaign copies than NWN1 and was actually fairly successfull in that....but who cares about that part of the game....