New NWN online game not a rumor anymore!

[Legacy_SuperFly_2000]

               Lord Sullivan,
yeah you are right that it is a slightly different concept. For me personally it has been multiplayer all the way along so now I am finally feeling that at least some far fetched effort is put into this field.

Don't forget that this is a style that created one of the most successful games ever (WoW, strictly speaking success in cash now of course, not in actual playvalue for me personally).

....and we multiplayer style people are finally given a present instead of only feeding the single player audience or the other extreme....the MMO's that haven't given me anything yet.

I agree about Alien Swarm. It is a really cool game but I am ofcourse expecting a lot more in depth combat than that and the constant use of the word strategy in the interviews is kind of making me feel better. Also they say it is not real turn based but the time is running...just like NWN that is.

Adding the co-op stuff, making it easy to team up...is not bad. Alien Swarm feels like a really social game because of it.

Also it seems like they have an ace up their sleeve concerning the business model of it. This sounds interesting. All is not black and white you know. There is grey in between. It doesn't have to be a pay by month game or a pay when you buy game. It can be both....or in between...

About single player taking over the world. Sure. It probably will. But not in this game.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par SuperFly_2000, 24 août 2010 - 08:52 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Shieldsmasher]

               Hopefully my PC can handle it, but I'll give it a go.  I'm not going to moan and groan about it until I play it though.  You can't cry about how bad the soup tastes until you taste it.  Maybe Cryptic has learned from the past.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Malagant]

               

About single player it actually does support that. Only it wont be almost solely aimed at it this time. Personally I think its about got damn time. Bioware turned its back on multiplayer totally years ago.

They have? What's all this fuss over The Old Republic then?

Supporting single player is exactly that: supported. Somehow it seems like it's being actively discouraged and that the game mechanics are being structured in such a way that multi play is almost forced. Sure, you can solo... but if you want full enjoyment of the product...

For the record...this isn't called NWN3 and it not an MMO either. At least the developer is taking a clear stance against that now.

You are correct. Instead, they came up with a cute catchy "look how witty we are" acronym in OMG. They could have called it a Living Action World Live (LAWL!!! OMG!!! SRSLY!!!!) for all I care. It's an MMO in the same way that a film reboot is a remake no matter how many euphemisims they use.

I was hoping for a LOT better actually. I like the way Cryptic are talking about the original game by Bioware and the respect they hold for that.

Soundbytes, nothing more. In any property, be it adaptations, re-makes, sequels, or otherwise, you will always hear similar comments made in almost every case in an effort to appeal to existing fans and asuage their concerns.

What is so bad about 4th ed? I mean....it can't be that bad right?

For as many people as I know that play D&D, none of them had made the transition to 4th Ed after trying it. They have rather moved toward Pathfinder (a campaign considered by many to be an unofficial 3.75 Ed) than bother with a system that, in some eyes, attempts to take the mechanics of MMOs and Trading Card Games and combine them into a PnP ruleset. Sure, MMO mechanics may make sense in an MMO and picking your powers / destinies / whatever may be cheaper than hoarding up hundreds of packs to find the cards you want, but...

Either way, it's a matter of taste and opinion.

Also they are using Forgotten Realms lore and the book by R A Salvatore...which is probably going to be awesome....

This just spells to me that they don't really have an original storyline and are piggy-backing on another extension of the same property.

Its being made by Craptic and you cant host your own custume built servers. Craptic is in this to make money I wouldnt doubt there will be a monthly fee as you have to use their servers. I will pass on this game and continue to play NWN1.

Not to mention the current trend of nickle and diming players to death. X amount per month. $5 for this special set of skills. $5 for this armor. $10 to unlock this, etc. etc. MMOs are going the way of profile apps. Sure, you can enjoy this for say $15 per month... but if you really want to get anywhere in the game you'd better start caughing up that extra cash.

You can't cry about how bad the soup tastes until you taste it.

No, but you can comment of what soup smells like if it smells like...
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Malagant, 24 août 2010 - 09:16 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_roekenny]

               While I loath 4ed as much as the next guy would be willing to forgive the game had promise. Only game really ever want a copy past job done of it as FR setting gone down hill for me, and the joy of nwn is there is Ebberon, d20 modern and many other custom campaign settings what this game shoots down instantly. Hell it stuck in the Heartlands and Marshes one of most boring areas I find Give me Lantan or the underdark and gets interesting. Second  I love DM content would play more NWN conections games but lack time and timetable to play them now as was one of corener stones of dnd and that gone or severly limmited as again fixed campain setting and location.

Till I get a dnd in a disk shaped format what can be played easily with 5 or 100 people in a campaign set inside a giant Platypus on the moon of Steve  orbiting a mars bar with arcane, psionic, turenaming, and pact magic implemented will stick to NWN what least can get half what I  want '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_SuperFly_2000]

               

Malagant wrote...
They have? What's all this fuss over The Old Republic then?

Well...let us say...finally...and still...this game is like a year from release...while you have been fed single player campaigns on a regular basis from Bioware the last 7 years or so.
 
Also I am afraid to say that Bioware has gone terribly mainstream theese days and sure, while appealing to a big market...it is not necessarily a market that I am part of.

Malagant wrote...
Supporting single player is exactly that: supported. Somehow it seems like it's being actively discouraged and that the game mechanics are being structured in such a way that multi play is almost forced. Sure, you can solo... but if you want full enjoyment of the product...

A nice change. Usually it is the other way around. I dont know HOW many games I played now that where actually constructed to be single player firstmost. Now single player is in the back seat. An appealing change '>

roekenny wrote...
d20 modern

I will never fully understand why some people can't decide if they want to play a fantasy game or a sci-fi game...maybe I am too old...

It is full of NWN servers who concentrate on catering to odd world designs...
               
               

               

                     Modifié par SuperFly_2000, 24 août 2010 - 10:50 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Lord Sullivan]

               @SuperFly_2000

Hey, I'm in no way knocking down multiplayer as I love Neverwinter Nights dual capability, but that's what I was trying to make as a point is that, good single player games(minus over the top really bad choice DRM) are awesome money makers and MMO's are a shot in the dark. You may win, but you'll most likely loose is all I'm saying. Heck even DLC is not widely accepted, at least in the PC maket.

Going only or mostly multiplayer for that NWN version is IMO a terrible idea and a MMO style pay something at some point in order to actually enjoy the "Online" game is even more a terrible idea. Now you may point out some companies that are doing just that with some of their games and it's working, but eventually this will start going down in flames as more people start realizing what a waste of their hard earned cash it is.

To me, it should be just like Neverwinter Nights 3D "The First", not the old Neverwinter pay to play online. That is what I'm getting at.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lord Sullivan, 24 août 2010 - 10:31 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_SuperFly_2000]

               @Lord Sullivan

I didn't quite understand the last thing you wrote but about the path that this game has choosen I can only say that I am happy and that it is very refreshing.



I am tired of games that are either single player campaigns or cloned MMO's. What about in between? Real good oldschool co-op and D&D...that is what adventure is about for me.



You can't always keep on making exactly what people are screaming for. Sometimes you have to go your own way and make something new.



Otherwise all the games would eventually get kind of boring right?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy__six]

               

SuperFly_2000 wrote...

You can't always keep on making exactly what people are screaming for. Sometimes you have to go your own way and make something new.

To be honest, this doesn't sound particularly new. Even with the new announcement this sounds so far a lot like a garbled copy of another game. And that other game isn't NWN.

As for your "odd settings" point, forgive me if I'm misunderstanding, but I certainly hope you don't expect everyone to produce a carbon copy of the NWN OC's setting for their servers. I mean, okay, most people do (in terms of environments, character development and equipment) but as you've said yourself anything new and fresh is a blessing.

That said, I do hope that Neverwinter proves me wrong about it.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par _six, 24 août 2010 - 11:07 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Drewskie]

               

You can't always keep on making exactly what people are screaming for. Sometimes you have to go your own way and make something new.

If that had been their thinking this would have been Dark Sun online or something... which really would have been cool.  They are very much playing it safe making NWN3, with a toolset even, trying to lure in the existing fan base.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_tmanfoo]

               So I’m not fan of Cryptic at all.  Not going to mince words on that one.  This excerpt from their website tells me enough.

“In Neverwinter, players choose to become one of five classic D&D classes and team up with friends or computer-controlled allies to form five-person co-op groups. Players also create their own storylines and
quests utilizing an extremely user-friendly content generation system, tentatively codenamed Forge.”

Source - http://www.crypticst...d=299&Itemid=31
(ok, so I don't know how to link for some reason.)

I read this as ‘limited,’ nothing more.

If by some miracle it turns out to be one of those rare jewels everyone seems to be looking for, then so be it.  From my experience with the Cryptic betas, I hold no hope of this being a success.

Please excuse my pessimism.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par tmanfoo, 25 août 2010 - 05:45 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Malagant]

               Tmanfoo, Pessimism is good. It keeps the optimists on their toes. However, I've always said if the amount of water in the glass is indicative of positive thinking, no one has ever drowned from too much air.

Well...let us say...finally...and still...this game is like a year from release...while you have been fed single player campaigns on a regular basis from Bioware the last 7 years or so.

I do agree, but I also appreciate so much effort and development time being put into something as oppsoed to, say, a NWN version of Queen of the Damned (film version... a blatent attempt to cash in on two books  before the rights reverted back to the original source). I do keep an open mind about these things, but my certain attempt at doing so with a certain western comic character this year left me dismayed and I'm hearing a lot of the same rhetoric here.

A nice change. Usually it is the other way around. I dont know HOW many games I played now that where actually constructed to be single player firstmost. Now single player is in the back seat. An appealing change

It is. I wholeheartedly agree, but it unfortunately leaves out a wealth of persons who can not find others to join. I ran a stint on a certain other fantasy MMO and while I found no issue with finding others on a NWN server to RP with and build long lasting relationships, this other world pretty much had me feeling like I wasted $60 on the core and expansion (I didn't even bother purchasing the other two expansions).

In the six months I played, I probably ran with two individuals IF they happened to be on and getting anywhere in the game was futile, even with the available "henchmen". Heading through that north gate was suicide on my own and venturing with that one other person was just as suicidal. I stuck those discs in the stack and haven't bothered logging on since. I just chalked it up to a failed gamble and won't play that hand again.

I am tired of games that are either single player campaigns or cloned MMO's. What about in between? Real good oldschool co-op and D&D...that is what adventure is about for me.

I'm with you there. It's apparently a hard balance to maintain though, and I think starting off under the assumption that people will have a group is a bad move. people that have a group of friends get the bonus points but those that don't get left in the dust. Humans are vicious herd animals by nature, after all.

To be honest, this doesn't sound particularly new. Even with the new announcement this sounds so far a lot like a garbled copy of another game. And that other game isn't NWN.

I suppose a lot of what I said about the rhetoric is summed up in Six's one sentance. Kudos to Six for streamlining my wordiness... and i hope this incarnation of NWN proves me wrong as well. Gods help me if it becomes the Jonah Hex of D&D.

If that had been their thinking this would have been Dark Sun online or something...

I remember the Dark Sun days. Seemed like WotC left behind all the unique properties and only kept FR (probably because Greenwood was still on the staff).

Either way, I'm leaning toward Tmanfoo. Limited with a lot of colorful language to make it seem like you're getting something your not actually getting.  
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Malagant, 25 août 2010 - 07:53 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_SuperFly_2000]

               

Malagant wrote...

It is. I wholeheartedly agree, but it unfortunately leaves out a wealth of persons who can not find others to join. I ran a stint on a certain other fantasy MMO

Let me guess....for some unspeakable reason you where playing WoW or a WoW clone(?). No offense...but that game is made for kids and it is as far away from roleplaying as you can get. So that is what you get.

I actually read somewhere that the huge success of WoW was because that you could solo it. Playing solo in an MMO, there it is. So while its MASSIVE...you're still all alone.

I guess you never tried the free game Alien Storm? Ok...yes I know...it is a shooter...but players are more or less forced together...and it works. You're never playing alone.

Sure...sometimes people act like dumbasses or just close down the server or kick you without an explanation but most of the times....you'd be amazed.

After all that is what makes multiplayer gaming so alive. You don't know what you get...
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Genisys]

               In honor of all the writers and authors of D&D, especially Gygax, I'd like to say, that anything is possible in D&D, truly, and the game is more or less limited to your imagination..

Online or Offline, all computer games are limited by the skills of the programmer and the limitations of graphics / coding and the artist which are working on the parts that make up the game, and the game is limited by the current available technology and how good someone can invent / create within the limitations of computing..

This game may be viewed by many as a probable fail, or by being judgmental & making assumptions without knowledge of the actual game beforehand (Speculating) they may not have much faith in the game being good or better than NWN 1, the current king of D&D..

If we all just wait a year or so, till it comes out, then we will all have a better perspective on what the game will be like, as some will have played it by then, and we will be able to also judge if it's worth playing by the feedback that comes through..

I for one never played NWN 2 solely because many people said it stunk..
(I'm still not sure if it stinks or not because I never play it, how would I know for sure?)

Even the most pathetically coded & graphically challenged games can be much fun, but where D&D / NWN shines through is, it's more about enjoying the company you keep, and having a good time, whether your dying, casting magic, helping others, RPing, discussing things with others, or whatever...

Any MMO or RPG offer this, just find someone and do your thing...

RP for me is great IF it also includes the group of players actually doing something, standing around whittling tales and acting out your character can be fun, but it's not something I want to stand around typing all day to achieve... forget that, I'm moving forward..

I hope the game is a success, and if it's made very well, no matter what the rules are, then I'm sure it will attract a crowd, for me I like playing with People that are hip, as it's much more fun than playing with people stuck on this or that... (A blast from the past..)  Besides, it's always exciting and fun to try something new ADMIT IT... '> 

(even if it blows, at least by learning your doing something productive rather than just gaming or worse grinding for loot)
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Genisys, 25 août 2010 - 05:56 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Eradrain]

               

SuperFly_2000 wrote...


Let me guess....for some unspeakable reason you where playing WoW or a WoW clone(?). No offense...but that game is made for kids and it is as far away from roleplaying as you can get. So that is what you get.

I actually read somewhere that the huge success of WoW was because that you could solo it. Playing solo in an MMO, there it is. So while its MASSIVE...you're still all alone.

I guess you never tried the free game Alien Storm? Ok...yes I know...it is a shooter...but players are more or less forced together...and it works. You're never playing alone.

Sure...sometimes people act like dumbasses or just close down the server or kick you without an explanation but most of the times....you'd be amazed.

After all that is what makes multiplayer gaming so alive. You don't know what you get...

1.  WoW is the best multiplayer game ever made.  It just is, there's a reason it has absolute market-share dominance.

2.  If you have never played WoW, I don't want to see you commenting on what makes it good or bad, any more than I want to see someone who's never had a drink in their life tell me what wines to buy and what wines to avoid.

3.  WoW is neither marketed toward kids, nor predominantly played by children.  The average WoW player is in the 21-35 age bracket, is employed, and owns their own home (And male, if it matters).

...NWN players bashing WoW because it lacks roleplay is a sore spot, for me.  It's apples and oranges.  Two completely different kinds of games, marketed toward two completely different demographics (WoW is marketed toward gamers, NWN/D&D is marketed toward consumers of table-top RPGs).  I RP on NWN servers, I PvP and raid in WoW.

The point where the two intersect, I think, is when you're trying to run a NWNPW, because then you're administering your own little MMO.  And in that case, a lot of the best servers I've seen have embraced the MMO-aspect of their game experience (and even taken balance and gameplay queues from MMOs like WoW and implemented them to great success) whereas the worst servers clung desperately to "P&P purity", ignoring the fact that it was just painful to do that over an online game medium like they were/are trying to.

___________________

On the subject of the upcoming Cryptic game - The strength of NWN is its user-generated content, and I'm not talking about the stuff you make in the toolset so much as the stuff you make out of it and turn into haks.  Judging by the Massively interview, they won't have any support for creating new classes, new textures, new sounds, and the like.  That turns me off, personally.  If I wanna play an online RPG without user-generated content, I'll just play Diablo 3 when it comes out.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Eradrain, 25 août 2010 - 06:27 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_BardKesnit]

               I've been reading the info on this game and admit it worries me.



1) Only 5 classes? I don't care if it's 3.5 or 4e, with only 5 classes, there's a limit on what you can do. Perhaps there will be PrCs, though I can't imagine how many of those there will be with only 5 base classes. Even if it is 4e and there are multiple Paragon Paths for each base class, 5 classes seems really limiting.



2) Forced grouping concerns me. Sure, grouping is great if you have a group of people that you can meet up with and run, but that isn't always the case. I played DDO when it first came out and spent a lot of time running around doing errands while I waited for enough people to join the group I was in so we could run a dungeon.



I understand that D&D is a cooperative game and is supposed to be played in groups. And maybe Cryptic will come up with a better way of getting groups together than Turbine did. This is an area where I have to just wait and see.



3) A post in the NWN2 forums quotes a Cryptic rep saying the Forge will not allow custom content to the extent NWN1 & 2 had. It's like the content creator in City of Heroes, which does not allow non-combat quests, requires linear quests, and does not have a conversation option.





As an aside... WotC just published a Dark Sun Campaign Guide and Players Guide. So they are still supporting Dark Sun. (I have not had a chance to read the book to know how it relates to 2e Dark Sun, but the few things I have read about it make me think it is a reasonable version of the setting.)