To hak or not to hak?

[Legacy_AndarianTD]

               

ShaDoOoW wrote...

But if you use haks, you might consider add music into your haks by default...

You don't mean actually putting the .bmu files in the hak, do you? I thought that didn't work. Has that changed and I missed hearing about it? Or are you just talking about the 2DA?
               
               

               

                     Modifié par AndarianTD, 31 juillet 2010 - 03:40 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

AndarianTD wrote...

ShaDoOoW wrote...

But if you use haks, you might consider add music into your haks by default...

You don't mean actually putting the .bmu files in the hak, do you? I thought that didn't work. Has that changed and I missed hearing about it? Or are you just talking about the 2DA?

No I mean you make installer which put music into music folder, but it will be ine installer combined with haks.

Btw I think you can use default music more then once, I just pointed that this solution require haks or at least player to download something.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_tmanfoo]

               I've been contemplating this very thing recently.  I’m pretty sure I’ve decided on CEP2.3 & NWNCQ at the very least.  Some of the other haks available have some amazing stuff, and they may make into the list as well.



It seems much of the appeal of NWN over the years is the ability to change what you’re working with relative ease.  We might as well take full advantage of the tools at our disposal.



I say hak.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Bubba McThudd]

               As a player and a modder, I can't imagine playing NWN without haks.  Fan content is one of the main reason this game is so special.
               
               

               
            

[Baaleos]

               As to 'when to hak'

It depends on what the content is.





If the content is optional

2da, wav, bmu(these actually need to go in the music folder I think) - These dont require haks in order to work, they can be optionally put into the override or music folder respectivly, in order for the clients to use them. These are NON-BLOCKING.  Eg - Not having these content types, will not prevent a client from entering the server without crash.



Things which are Non Optional include

Tilesets, Models, textures,possibly load screens, effects etc



These things, ARE blocking, and will cause crashes on the clients if they attempt to view one of these objects on screen, or enter an area where the objects are meant to be.





So, in terms of hak's



If you want to maximize player access, you can add sound content and 2da content as Optional enhancements. Eg - Players wont hear the music or sound effects, but wont crash. They can choose if they wana download your enhancement pack, and place it in their override directory.

This method is without haks.



If however, you decide to put these in a hak, nwn will prevent players from entering your server, if t hey dont possess that hak.



If you do decide to use hak's then you might as well go all the way in, and fill the hak to the brim with as much content as you can get.

But just remember, that the players will need this hak, preferably in the same condition as your server is using, otherwise the differences can cause crashes.



eg - Recently one of our builders was using an old version of cep2.3 and when I sent him an area I edited, and put a new placeable into for him to look at, he didnt have that model in his CEP hak's, and it caused toolset to crash.



So it is important that if you update your server content haks, that clients are FORCED to get the updated ones, otherwise they can run into crashes too.



Recap

Sound, Music - You can distribute these via override directory if you want. You can even advise new players to download the music and sound effects for enhancement value from inside your module (a signpost etc)



Models, and Visual Content - These too would work via override, but would actually cause crashes for clients if they tried to enter an area possessing a model that they lacked. Using hak's for this content is justified, as it ensures client stability for your players, by forcing them to have the content, before entering the server.



All in all,

as some gameshow would say....

'The Choice ... is yours!!'
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Karvon]

               Another thought on haks...



Generally, I prefer multiple haks to a single massive all inclusive one. For updating purposes, it's a lot easier to have a top hak controlling 2das of assorted haks, than dumping everything into one, or more, combo haks.  In addition, it saves players the hassle of DL'ing stuff they already have.  It's also much easier to host a small 2da top hak than monsterous combo haks. Finally, you don't need to seek out CC author's permission, or draw their ire, if you keep their haks separate as opposed to merging them in to bigger ones.



Karvon
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Calvinthesneak]

               This is true, the ideal way I've found though is to do certain things:

A top hak
Male Clothing
Female Clothing
Robes and Cloaks (and any associated MDL's for different phenotypes such as riding or ACP)
Heads
baseitems and icons
Tilesets (if you have many small ones)
Creatures
Placables

In this way you sort of isolate the number of files you have to search for any specific resource. Clothing haks can all be combined together but the textures tend to make them quite sizable and models for all races tend to push you to upper limits of hak size if you have a lot of pieces.

The more haks the server has to search through to find a resource, the longer the load time. It starts at the top of the list and goes down looking for a specific resource, it's not a huge deal of time, algorithms are fairly complete and concise for doing that sort of thing, but it does add up. Converseley having a lot of small haks or one big one with the same number of files is going to amount to the same difference I think.

And as for CC author's permission, I always try to obtain that if I'm using their work alone or merging, it's just common courtesy. I've had some like CTP wish for their stuff to remain standing alone and others simply are happy to have their work used.

Somewhere in my earlier post I stressed keeping it as easy for the end user as possible. Too many haks is intimidating to plenty, even if they're much smaller in size. The fact that Project Q and CEP both have an exe version available should demonstrate end users desire for ease and simplicity.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Calvinthesneak, 01 août 2010 - 02:41 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Urk]

               I'm all about haks. NWNs biggest appeal is the wealth of custom content.
There is some validity to the point that these forums are haunted by dedicated players, but NWN is an 8 year old game. Pretty much all NWN players are dedicated at this point.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Urk, 01 août 2010 - 03:03 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               I wish PWs wont repackaged certain big CC like worms tilesets or six_'s tilesets. Really every PW has their haks named like PW_models and PW_tilesets. But if they would use original hak name, then you would not need to download worm tileset again and again if they are used on multiple modules... I know singleplayers do this, but not PWs.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Calvinthesneak]

               Agreed, and you'll note I said small tilesets.  You start looking at something like Seasonal Forest or even older sets like the supersets, there's little point in combining with other haks.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Bubba McThudd]

               Does this avatar make my head look fat?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy__six]

               

ShaDoOoW wrote...

I wish PWs wont repackaged certain big CC like worms tilesets or six_'s tilesets.

Not to focus on an insignificant detail or anything, but none of my tilesets are over 10mb in 7z format
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Jenna WSI]

               For now I'm just going to cross my fingers that CEP includes what I need, and see where that goes. Good debate though, and tips that people will find useful in starting a hak. And the point that once you download a hak once, if all the PW creators use the original name... there's no need to stuff part of it into your own hak. Great suggestion there.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_olivier leroux]

               

Jenna WSI wrote...
And the point that once you download a hak once, if all the PW creators use the original name... there's no need to stuff part of it into your own hak. Great suggestion there.

Yeah, if all PW owners did that I could probably hop from one to the next without downloading anything anymore. You don't want to know how big my hak folder has grown over the past three years...

               
               

               

                     Modifié par olivier leroux, 01 août 2010 - 10:23 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Shia Luck]

               

olivier leroux wrote...

Jenna WSI wrote...
And the point that once you download a hak once, if all the PW creators use the original name... there's no need to stuff part of it into your own hak. Great suggestion there.

Yeah, if all PW owners did that I could probably hop from one to the next without downloading anything anymore. You don't want to know how big my hak folder has grown over the past three years...

QFT. That is how to make it easy for players to try out a server with haks. Only make them download the top hak and your unique content.