Author Topic: To hak or not to hak?  (Read 2811 times)

Legacy_AndarianTD

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To hak or not to hak?
« Reply #30 on: July 31, 2010, 03:11:20 am »


               

_six wrote...

Personally I've always been a highly aesthetic person. To feel truly immersed in any setting the visuals and just as (or more) importantly the sound have to demonstrate exactly the emotions I am supposed to be feeling... I find the real depth of a story isn't always found explicitly in the writing but in how it directs you to interpret the setting and environment...

Which sort of not exactly brings me to the point that whether or not you decide on extra haks or not, I would most certainly reccomend using custom music. It can totally change the feel of any area or event in a game, and given that unlike haks its an entirely optional extra download for players I find it really sad that it's not used more.


I very much agree with all of that, including the last part. Like Six I find it unfortunate that so few builders seem to emphasize the use and value of custom music.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Onion Eater

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« Reply #31 on: July 31, 2010, 03:31:32 am »


               Hak to your heart's content.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_epic Kobold

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« Reply #32 on: July 31, 2010, 04:26:20 am »


               hak
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Calvinthesneak

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« Reply #33 on: July 31, 2010, 05:06:26 am »


               Hmmm custom content is pretty much a must to most players.  Having been a CC organizer for a 70 player server, I can tell you people sure appreciate things like clothes and the ability to look unique or have pretty places to roleplay in.



Most users however are rather intimidated by having to learn how to install it all.  They want a simple and friendly method where they download (size really isn't an issue) and then it installs to the right places.



In a couple instances I made self extracting exe for haks and they met with varied success.  A system like WorldGate or Rsync that will take care of auto updating so people have a dummy proof system would help a lot.



Players want to play but they want pretty.  Most folks though don't want to mess around with sorting out where and how to get the files in the right places.  They want to download, click a button and have them install.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Shadooow

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« Reply #34 on: July 31, 2010, 07:11:17 am »


               

Jenna WSI wrote...

Many of us used NWN when it didn't have so many haks and CC options, and we still shared (a very good) vision. The quest, the story... that doesn't require a country road that looks nicer than the one in 1.69. The story still works.

While this is true, you don't need even CEP and defnitely not CEP2, just count how much content from it you used. Personally using CEP1 and I count about 2%.

_six wrote...
Well what I had in mind would be to simply use
additional custom music in your music folder with a custom 2da in
override when building the mod. If players don't have the music and 2da
file in their respective folders they won't get any music, but there
won't be any errors as such and they can still play fine.

Yes custom music is very cool but I would suggest you not to use it without custom haks. You know, music is quite large because its already compressed so average track is around 5mb. Also not all players listen to music so its always good idea to have this to be optional par of download. However If you won't go hak route, as six_ pointed players who don't downloaded your custom music won't hear anything. While with hak, you can play them default bioware music there and for those who didn't downloaded it.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 31 juillet 2010 - 06:13 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_olivier leroux

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« Reply #35 on: July 31, 2010, 01:11:58 pm »


               I wonder, is it somehow possible to allow for both Bioware and custom music? Let the players choose themselves in-game? I know McV included such an option in his "The Immortal" single player module, you get an options menu conversation and can choose from three different sets of music, two custom set and the default tunes. It works for the whole module, in all areas. I don't know how he did it though and if this method would be an option for a PW.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_TSMDude

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« Reply #36 on: July 31, 2010, 01:22:41 pm »


               You can do custom music and players can still log in fine. Just if they are in an area with the custom music and do not have the files they just do not hear it is all.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_olivier leroux

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« Reply #37 on: July 31, 2010, 01:27:16 pm »


               Yes, I got that, but in McV's mod you can choose between custom music OR default music in-game. That's why I thought there *might* be a way to allow players who don't have custom music installed to hear the default music nevertheless. But i'm not sure how it's done and maybe it's a trick that doesn't lend itself to WSI.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par olivier leroux, 31 juillet 2010 - 12:28 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy__six

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« Reply #38 on: July 31, 2010, 01:37:06 pm »


               

olivier leroux wrote...

Yes, I got that, but in McV's mod you can choose between custom music OR default music in-game. That's why I thought there *might* be a way to allow players who don't have custom music installed to hear the default music nevertheless. But i'm not sure how it's done and maybe it's a trick that doesn't lend itself to WSI.

Great mod, that (with flying carpets and barrel riding, no less). IIRC that just used a script to set each area's music individually when the player made a selection, nothing really complex or CC'ey.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Shadooow

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« Reply #39 on: July 31, 2010, 01:57:49 pm »


               

olivier leroux wrote...

Yes, I got that, but in McV's mod you can choose between custom music OR default music in-game. That's why I thought there *might* be a way to allow players who don't have custom music installed to hear the default music nevertheless. But i'm not sure how it's done and maybe it's a trick that doesn't lend itself to WSI.

As I said, there is a way by using hak respectively ambientmusic 2da with new lines which however contain already existing tracks. The McV's trick won't work in multiplayer module.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_olivier leroux

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« Reply #40 on: July 31, 2010, 02:28:39 pm »


               

ShaDoOoW wrote...
The McV's trick won't work in multiplayer module.


Not even if you set Bioware's music as default and ask players who want extra music to put an extended ambientmusic.2da in their override folder (additionally to downloading the music of course) and then let them choose to switch music in-game?
               
               

               


                     Modifié par olivier leroux, 31 juillet 2010 - 01:29 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Shadooow

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« Reply #41 on: July 31, 2010, 03:02:40 pm »


               

olivier leroux wrote...

ShaDoOoW wrote...
The McV's trick won't work in multiplayer module.


Not even if you set Bioware's music as default and ask players who want extra music to put an extended ambientmusic.2da in their override folder (additionally to downloading the music of course) and then let them choose to switch music in-game?

Ok I will explain it deeply. New music require ambientmusic.2da, in this 2da there is line with number which point to music file name. Default nwn ambientmusic.2da has only 95 lines. If you then add new music your music number will be then 96 >. And since player dont have line 96 he will hear nothing. So you must give every player this new 2da. Either with default tracks for those who didnt downloaded new music files, or with custom one. As you can see game server send client number -> play music 96. So if player would have there mus_citydockday it will play default city dock day music. If there would be custom music, it will play that instead. It can't be cone via scripting (McV's method) as music plays for all players in area. If you do use haks, its very simple to do, you must just include ambientmusic for those who dont have music into your haks. And then add new ambientmusic with custom tracks into download for those who want new music. But if you use haks, you might consider add music into your haks by default...
               
               

               
            

Legacy_TSMDude

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« Reply #42 on: July 31, 2010, 03:13:45 pm »


               

olivier leroux wrote...

ShaDoOoW wrote...
The McV's trick won't work in multiplayer module.


Not even if you set Bioware's music as default and ask players who want extra music to put an extended ambientmusic.2da in their override folder (additionally to downloading the music of course) and then let them choose to switch music in-game?


We have a simple Gnomish Jukebox that allows players to turn music on in Taverns. Some of it is custom and only those who have the custom override will hear it. Those who dont get the generic/default. It is pretty easy to do and as long as your builders know and have the proper downloads it is not that big of a deal.

EDIT:
As Andian wrote below this is the emthod we used and it was not as hard as you might think. In looking through the music you will see several things that can be improved or are not even used much anyhow.

You can set up a module-specific 2DA in which the 2DA entry for each custom track you want to use is placed in the same slot where an appropriate Bioware default is located. In this approach you have to pair each custom track with a Bioware default that you think is an appropriate substitute for it for players that don't want to download your custom music. Then players without the custom music will hear an appropriate Bioware default, and players who do will hear the custom tracks. However, this also requires you to move the Bioware defaults to different ID numbers if you also want to use them in the custom score.



               
               

               


                     Modifié par TSMDude, 31 juillet 2010 - 04:16 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_olivier leroux

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« Reply #43 on: July 31, 2010, 03:28:16 pm »


               

ShaDoOoW wrote...
It can't be cone via scripting (McV's method) as music plays for all players in area.

Okay, that's the important bit I didn't know. Thanks for explaining!
               
               

               
            

Legacy_AndarianTD

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« Reply #44 on: July 31, 2010, 04:23:23 pm »


               

olivier leroux wrote...I wonder, is it somehow possible to allow for both Bioware and custom music? Let the players choose themselves in-game? I know McV included such an option in his "The Immortal" single player module, you get an options menu conversation and can choose from three different sets of music, two custom set and the default tunes. It works for the whole module, in all areas. I don't know how he did it though and if this method would be an option for a PW.

Yes, it is in principle, in a couple of ways.
  • You can set up a module-specific 2DA in which the 2DA entry for each custom track you want to use is placed in the same slot where an appropriate Bioware default is located. In this approach you have to pair each custom track with a Bioware default that you think is an appropriate substitute for it for players that don't want to download your custom music. Then players without the custom music will hear an appropriate Bioware default, and players who do will hear the custom tracks. However, this also requires you to move the Bioware defaults to different ID numbers if you also want to use them in the custom score.
  • The most flexible and straightforward approach is to script it. Then all you need is a mechanism for determining in-game whether the player is playing with the default Bioware score or with a custom score (and if there is more than one, which one), and setting an appropriate global variable. Then you just use the MusicBackgroundChange* and MusicBattleChange functions to change the music for each area accordingly.
I suspect McV used the second method, a variant of which I'm also going to be using in Sanctum 3. I also use the scripting method in Sanctum to change the music based on what's happening (such as starting a track with a "chase" theme or mood if the party has to flee), and for Robin's (the Bard companion's)  "jukebox" ability to change the background music if you ask him/her to play you a song.

As others have said I don't think it would work in multiplayer because the choice of music isn't a client-side setting. If you change it for one player, you change it for all. In that case you'd have to use the first approach I described, with a custom 2DA for each distinct custom score, and in which your custom tracks override the corresponding line entries in the Bioware defaults. As ShaDoOoW points out this limits you to the number of tracks in the base game's ambientmusic.2DA. As I described above you'd have to do a bit of work to structure the alternatives to sound good as alternatives to each other. Then it would just be a matter of the player dropping the necessary ambientmusic.2DA into his system (either into override or in one of several hak files with the same name but different 2DAs), and making sure he had the required music downloaded for each option, to switch between scores.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par AndarianTD, 31 juillet 2010 - 03:52 .