Author Topic: Will there ever be another NWN?  (Read 7898 times)

Legacy_Snowbug

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Will there ever be another NWN?
« Reply #60 on: July 20, 2010, 03:35:53 pm »


               

Lord Sullivan wrote...



Well, the best advice I can give is, follow your talents and interests. If you have a nack at drawing/painting? then

start parcticing seriously starting today. Find tutorials on the internet. If you have some programming skills? start practicing and look for codes exemples of things you'd like to know how to do. If you have interest in learning 3D modeling? grabe a free or free opensource software solution and start practicing and learning from tutorials on the internet, etc...



Where ever it would be beneficial for you to start as only you know yourself and your skills.



Hope that helps




pkpeachykeen wrote...



If you're interested in learning anything, though, there are plenty of tutorials around for almost anything. Do you have any fields of interest?




I have done some building in the NWN1 toolset (also NWN2 but I got a bit frustrated with it) although I haven't finished anything so far. I'm currently building two modules, one small and silly (which I only started a few days ago) and one bigger and more complicated and partially still way beyond my current skills.



I find scripting quite fun, but I have not yet scripted anything terribly complicated. I'd say that is one of those things that are easy for me to warp my mind around, though.



I've done some 3d modeling in the past, but only quite simple inorganic items.



What I am primarily though, is a writer. That was the whole reason I started messing around with the NWN toolset in the first place, because I was interested in it as a different kind of story-telling medium. And this is also why this whole project is of much interest to me, because I see in it the opportunity to create a world that is my own creation instead of being somewhat tied to the D&D system.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_KooKoo88

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Will there ever be another NWN?
« Reply #61 on: July 20, 2010, 03:46:52 pm »


               I like D&D actually.  Even if it's sometimes complicated, it's fun.  While it is not perfect or maybe even the best system, it is well known and accepted, making it ideal for a game.
The problem is that the rules keep changing and older versions aren't supported. Ideally (By that I mean I know it won't happen) older versions of D&D would be turned over as a public domain copyright for all to use and profit off of as they would. (We're on forums for a fantasy game, so indulge my fantasy. 'Posted )
As far as the game engine.  It needs to be simple for individuals to make stuff up in their own time.  Getting groups to collaborate and spends 100s of hours to create free modules which inevitably create extra profit for the gamemaker seems a bit fishy to me.
Neverwinter Nights seemed more spontaneous.  It was like someone said "What, you want the toolset too?  Hmmm, what the heck, here you go."  I feel that the builders were supported for a long time too.
I never would have made a module in any other toolset.  I've looked at DA and it's too much work.  Morrowind and Oblivion were too confusing.  It's not that they're bad, it's that I am a complete amateur and just wanted to have fun.  NWN gave that to me.
As far as teams over individuals . . . well . . . There are quite a few NWN modules created by individuals that are better than many, many professionally produced million dollar games produced by teams these days. 'Posted  The graphics aren't as good, but the stories are absolutely riveting. 'Posted
Even though I'm retired from building, I still open up the toolset now and then because it's just fun. '<img'>
Good gaming. 'Posted
               
               

               
            

Legacy_pkpeachykeen

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Will there ever be another NWN?
« Reply #62 on: July 20, 2010, 07:36:38 pm »


               As for as the whole D&D vs not debate goes, to sort out any possible copyright issues, especially things that could kill the engine project, dunniteowl and myself are both leaning toward using a homebrew system of his creation and allowing modders to add other systems as they wish. The engine would ship with one or two default rule-bases, and any builder feeling comfortable with scripts or needing to tweak things could add or replace what they need. All the rules will be scripted, though, with hooks triggering them (very similar to the OnDeath, OnUsed, etc of NWN's scripting system).
It is very likely some enterprising builder will create a set of D&D rules on this new engine. Obviously there's nothing we, as the engine creators, can do to stop that. '<img'> It would, however, be the builder's responsibility to make sure they didn't violate copyright in using NWN resources or D&D rules.
Just for safety's sake, though, we won't be including anything from NWN, NWN2, or DA:O in the base engine, neither resources nor rules. It will be possible to add anything you'd like.

As far as my personal opinion on rules... I don't mind D&D for a lot of things. I've played the original, first-edition D&D, second-edition, v3 and 3.5. I like the latter two better than the originals, some things are more logical (like armor, higher armor is supposed to be better, not worse!). They do begin to become cluttered. I've also played d20 modern and have a passing familiarity with the Warhammer and WH40K rules.

I think the thing to remember, whether it's about the engine, the rules, the features, or the graphics: everybody got something right, nobody got everything right. What we need to do is figure out what all those somethings were and make as many of them possible as we can. Using that strategy, we can get as much right as possible. Hopefully that'll put us a step ahead of most of the (few) modern RPGs.


Snowbug wrote...

I have done some building in the NWN1 toolset (also NWN2 but I got a bit frustrated with it) although I haven't finished anything so far. I'm currently building two modules, one small and silly (which I only started a few days ago) and one bigger and more complicated and partially still way beyond my current skills.

I find scripting quite fun, but I have not yet scripted anything terribly complicated. I'd say that is one of those things that are easy for me to warp my mind around, though.

I've done some 3d modeling in the past, but only quite simple inorganic items.

What I am primarily though, is a writer. That was the whole reason I started messing around with the NWN toolset in the first place, because I was interested in it as a different kind of story-telling medium. And this is also why this whole project is of much interest to me, because I see in it the opportunity to create a world that is my own creation instead of being somewhat tied to the D&D system.

I think we certainly have room for a writer, whether you want to contribute to existing stuff or new stuff. At the moment we're still working out the code and how that'll be put together, so there isn't any actual creation of worlds going on yet (nothing to create them in, besides a framework of the engine). However, when we do get it up and working (I'm hoping to make visible progress on the model importers today), there will be plenty of room. Up until that point, you can help out with whatever interests you and make any suggestions you think of.

The forums for this project are here:
http://nwcitadel.for...splay.php?f=129
and have recently been split into a number of more organized subgroups, so if anyone has any ideas (and seriously, I mean anyone and anything), by all means, suggest it. The worst you can get is a look of shock because your fondest dream is to have an Epic Criticals: Stapler feat. However, if you suggest a city inside a giant spork, that might just happen. '<img'>
               
               

               


                     Modifié par pkpeachykeen, 20 juillet 2010 - 06:37 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Knight_Shield

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Will there ever be another NWN?
« Reply #63 on: July 20, 2010, 07:45:06 pm »


               Maybe take votes on key issues from the community?Just a thought.Oh just seen we can set up poll's here'Posted
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Knight_Shield, 20 juillet 2010 - 06:51 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_SHOVA

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Will there ever be another NWN?
« Reply #64 on: July 20, 2010, 07:54:47 pm »


               Peachy you are right, everyone got something right, but not everything, but what your missing is that one of the things they got right was it is D&D. whatever your feelings on it are, loads of people only bought NWN for that reason. Same holds true for whatever is made, If it is not D&D from the start, Some people are not going to buy it/ use it.



The other thing you are overlooking is the builder to player only ratio of NWN. many NWN users do build, many more only play it. many players will not buy a build it game, no matter how cool it is and what can be done, especialy if there is no OC game that comes with it.



Personaly, I can not see myself switching to a new game, to do what I am already doing in NWN. Yes there are many limitations to NWN, I now have 6 years invested into it. NWN is smart enough to allow my dumbness to at least achieve playability of what I try and make. That is a huge thing, that Obsidion forgot in their push to make NWN2. their numbers reflect it. While it is nice to dream up new game engines and what not, I am more interested in what is being done in NWN, the game I already have and am playing/building in.  



I would never tell anyone what they can or can't do, but Peachy, seriously, a new game that is not D&D, with as simplified buildability as NWN, with the Easy Multi-play aspect right out of the box, that I have to dl more things to make it like NWN, before I can use it, I won't waste my time with. I have a feeling I am not alone in that.



good luck!
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Genisys

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Will there ever be another NWN?
« Reply #65 on: July 20, 2010, 07:58:26 pm »


               Ok, let me put my 2 cents in on this subject, ever since I've follwed WOTC since Magic The Gathering (When Richard Garfield was there) and their (Hostile?) takeover of TSR, which was all the doings of HASBRO, the big takeover king (secretly hiding in the shadows using other company names to do their business), which would never sell the d20 system (A WOTC 3rd Edition D&D Intellecutal Property), even if they did, it would be a lease thing or just for A GAME THEY APPROVE, specifically for that game, and of course the greedy arses would probably want a major cut of the pie too!



You can't have a SIMILAR TO NWN without the d20 System, becuase D&D in itself hinges on that magnificient system!  I'm not familiar with Dragon Age Origins, but I'd be willing to be it doesn't use the d20 system, and if it did, I'd bet my DM status that the boys at bioware had to pay some big bucks to use it!  (Don't forget, WOTC / Hasbro are all about the $, TSR on the other hand WAS about the game & story more than the Bucks)



With all of that said, the chances of another game even remotely similar to NWN would take another Toolset, something Bioware specifically owns, so, if you want to ask someone, ask bioware, because like it or not, the toolset is what makes NWN so awesome for us community members who FEED U THE CONTENT. (and DAO for that matter)



Now, moving on to actually answer the question... (the best way is with a question)



Have you played Dragon Age Origins?  Because most of the people I talked to said, it was more or less the real NWN2 that Atari messed up on big time, Atari failed because they tried to be the solo big dogs, but business is a TEAM sport, HINT HINT!



We as a community STILL make great content, and like some said above, they haven't even played 1/2 the games released.  Truth to be told, I haven't even played 1/20th of the games released, nor even 1/20th of the servers online either!  THAT'S A MOUTHFUL! (& I've been playing / building for years myself)



(btw, I'm not shouting, I puntuating points, big difference)



NWN to me will never die, as long as we continue to play, add content to use, and strive as a community to WELCOME NEWCOMERS (That is a big one there), play nice, and all cooperate, I truly don't see why we should kick WOW's butt!  Someone told me World of Warcraft was really indepth, I had to go "Pfft!", NWN blows any game out of the water in depthness!



Sure nwn graphics aren't Tier 1, but who cares!  I play the game to play with people / RP, have a good time, and I just don't find the offline thing very intertaining.  (I've tried offline modules, 1/10th of the way through, I just can't take it any more and kill the slow mode by cheatting)



Everyone has their own style of play, STILL there are many players on RP Modules Online, there are still substantial numbers of players playing in the Action category too, no, not even 1/2 of what they use to be a few years ago, but hey, people have lives, they just may come back too, I know I did, multiple times!



Well that's my dissertation on the subject, hope someone enjoyed the read... Cheers!  XD

               
               

               
            

Legacy_TSMDude

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Will there ever be another NWN?
« Reply #66 on: July 20, 2010, 08:05:55 pm »


               Honestly on first I was digging what you were saying peachy but as the discussion has gone on I have kinda drifted away from it now.



What attracted me to NWN was it was in the Forgotten Realms and based on DnD. I am Old Skool and that is honestly what I like. GURPs...Cyberpunk...LotR. None of those ever compared to TSR days when FR first came out in the Big Grey Box. Heck I have the map on my wall. My wife hates it.



Sorry i digress. While I think NWN has diminished of course it still has not died because here is a lot of people like us that are die hard DnD people. Heck google Dungeons and Dragons Cakes and you will see.



I even waited in line for four hours to see Dungeons and Dragons...*shakes fist at the horrible movie*
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Genisys

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Will there ever be another NWN?
« Reply #67 on: July 20, 2010, 08:16:25 pm »


               Anything my wife hates, I love.. TSMDude.. '<img'>

I forgot to add something, and I've said it before, IF THERE WAS GOING TO BE A NWN III

I would be willing to pay as much as $200 for the game< NO BS ABOUT IT!

However, it had better be GOOD, use all the cores of a CPU, have great graphics, online play, something similar to DAO, but it must use the D20 System & the Forgotten Realms setting.  Sorry I've spent too much time reading D&D books, Forgotten Realm Books, and have been playing D&D since 1987, so I doubt that any old timer like me would not be willing to shove over the cash for a better NWN, provided it was truly a NWN game, but with the better computer content.

Is it possible to outdo NWN 1?  It would take a game on the scale of WOW, without leaving the bounds of WHY we bought nwn in the first place, and that's because it's D20 / Forgotten Realms / D&D Based...
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Genisys, 20 juillet 2010 - 07:19 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_pkpeachykeen

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Will there ever be another NWN?
« Reply #68 on: July 20, 2010, 08:22:44 pm »


               @ Shova and TSMDude:

I think you may have misunderstood my post, or I mis-spoke.

We're not releasing the core engine with D&D as a base component, because that would only invite WotC to shut us down on IP violations. If that happened, the entire project would be to no avail. The core can't be D&D-based, because that would invite attacks from (at least) Atari, EA, Hasbro and WotC.

However, we'll definitely be supporting as many old resources as it's possible to write support for. Some parts aren't entirely documented, so it'll take some work to make it look and act just like the old one, but that's the entire goal of this. Being able to make more on top of it is both a necessity for supporting multiple old games and a nice thing for anyone interested in it.

So, instead, the core will be released with a different ruleset.
However, a D&D/NWN1 ruleset and importers for NWN1 modules and
resources will be released, just as a separate package. Same with NWN2,
and hopefully DA:O.

The reason we're making the D&D-related stuff separate is simply a matter of safety. It protects the core engine from any complaints any companies may lodge, which guarantees that the basis of the project stays safe and free.

However, two of our major goals are supporting NWN1 and NWN2 modules. Hopefully that clears it up for you. '<img'>
               
               

               


                     Modifié par pkpeachykeen, 20 juillet 2010 - 07:36 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_QNecron

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Will there ever be another NWN?
« Reply #69 on: July 20, 2010, 08:23:38 pm »


               

I even waited in line for four hours to see Dungeons and Dragons...*shakes fist at the horrible movie*


Dedication, you have it my friend.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_nikki191

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Will there ever be another NWN?
« Reply #70 on: July 20, 2010, 08:27:51 pm »


               

TSMDude wrote...

Honestly on first I was digging what you were saying peachy but as the discussion has gone on I have kinda drifted away from it now.

What attracted me to NWN was it was in the Forgotten Realms and based on DnD. I am Old Skool and that is honestly what I like. GURPs...Cyberpunk...LotR. None of those ever compared to TSR days when FR first came out in the Big Grey Box. Heck I have the map on my wall. My wife hates it.

Sorry i digress. While I think NWN has diminished of course it still has not died because here is a lot of people like us that are die hard DnD people. Heck google Dungeons and Dragons Cakes and you will see.

I even waited in line for four hours to see Dungeons and Dragons...*shakes fist at the horrible movie*


your wife truely doesnt appreciate the art *sniff sniff* ':wizard:' casts dnd charm on tsmdude's wife
               
               

               
            

Legacy_SHOVA

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Will there ever be another NWN?
« Reply #71 on: July 20, 2010, 08:37:25 pm »


               

pkpeachykeen wrote...

@ Shove and TSMDude:

I think you may have misunderstood my post, or I mis-spoke.

We're not releasing the core engine with D&D as a base component, because that would only invite WotC to shut us down on IP violations. If that happened, the entire project would be to no avail. The core can't be D&D-based, because that would invite attacks from (at least) Atari, EA, Hasbro and WotC.

However, we'll definitely be supporting as many old resources as it's possible to write support for. Some parts aren't entirely documented, so it'll take some work to make it look and act just like the old one, but that's the entire goal of this. Being able to make more on top of it is both a necessity for supporting multiple old games and a nice thing for anyone interested in it.

So, instead, the core will be released with a different ruleset.
However, a D&D/NWN1 ruleset and importers for NWN1 modules and
resources will be released, just as a separate package. Same with NWN2,
and hopefully DA:O.

The reason we're making the D&D-related stuff separate is simply a matter of safety. It protects the core engine from any complaints any companies may lodge, which guarantees that the basis of the project stays safe and free.

However, two of our major goals are supporting NWN1 and NWN2 modules. Hopefully that clears it up for you. '<img'>


I understand you perfectly Peachy, have all along, And I perfectly understand the licencing atari crap that your trying to avoid. However, I think your missing my point, if the new game is not D&D, I am not going to buy it, DL it, or play it. If like NWN2 with the DM client, can have the same features after a dl to make it the Closest D&D experience game ever, I still won't DL or play it, or buy it. It has to have all the features out of the box, just like NWN did. Now I understand that NWN was by no means complete when it was first released, however, it was playable, both OC, and online as "complete" game. I expect the same amount of playable/buildable D&D experience out of the box, otherwise it has failed to be as good as NWN. just my opinion, but looks like I am not alone on the D&D part.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_pkpeachykeen

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Will there ever be another NWN?
« Reply #72 on: July 20, 2010, 08:45:55 pm »


               Ah. I think I see what you mean. Unfortunately, just because of all the legal nonsense, I'm not sure how that could work.

There are a few possibilities, but I'm not sure if there are any that satisfy your "one download" requirement. I don't think (but that's just me) that downloading the engine in one zip and the NWN part in another. Extract both to the same folder and play. That gets around the IP limitations nicely, but unfortunately gives you two boxes, more or less. There's a small chance we could include the NWN stuff in the main box, but that's something we're going to have to discuss and figure out in more detail.

It's also possible to do the opposite... For example, release the engine as it's thing, then create a NWN package that includes the NWN module and the engine (note the order, it's not the engine with the pack, it's the pack with the engine). Extract that and play your NWN, no bothers. It would need NWN installed already, we can't release all the resources again, but is that closer to what you're thinking?

If it's at all possible to give players the same out-of-box experience as NWN, we're definitely going to. It's just a matter of figuring out how that can be done. If you have any ideas on how to do that and still make it safe in the licensing department, we'd be glad to hear them.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par pkpeachykeen, 20 juillet 2010 - 07:46 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Lord Sullivan

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Will there ever be another NWN?
« Reply #73 on: July 20, 2010, 09:23:44 pm »


               I think it's important to mention that such a platform is not meant to compete with NWN or any other game for that matter. It's not, like most things, going to be everyone's cup of tea, on that I think... "Oh well..."

On downloading "plug-in" projects separately(i.e. D&D system scripts Addon), I really don't get why anyone could object so ferociously... does your shopping cart come all packed and ready for you at the cash when you go shopping for food?

You know!?... just a thought '<img'>
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Lord Sullivan, 20 juillet 2010 - 08:26 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_SHOVA

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Will there ever be another NWN?
« Reply #74 on: July 20, 2010, 09:31:00 pm »


               

Lord Sullivan wrote...

I think it's important to mention that such a platform is not meant to compete with NWN or any other game for that matter. It's not, like most things, going to be everyone's cup of tea, on that I think... "Oh well..."

On downloading "plug-in" projects separately(i.e. D&D system scripts Addon), I really don't get why anyone could object so furiously... does your shopping cart come all packed and ready for you at the cash when you go shopping for food?

You know!?... just a thought '<img'>


its not about competeing with NWN, its about being A D&D game, not a game that can be changed to be a D&D game when you dl this, install this, and try to make it work. maybe that doesn't matter to you, but I for one have just now finally after 3 years gotten my mod to work the way I want it to. Redoing it in another platform that is not even D&D focused does not lend itself to being a actual process that I would consider. I also think that this idea has now surpassed the NWN forums, and perhaps should be moved to its own, as it is not about NWN anymore, but another game all together.

As for the shopping cart, yes it does, its called home delivery, and it is well worth it.