NWN performance bottleneck CPU or GPU?

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               

Calvinthesneak wrote...

Mmmmm fiddling around, my FPS will dip to 20 at times, but usually between 50-100.

Running GTX 295

That I can believe, your card is a lot more powerful than my 8800 GT.

Are you using "~trace fps" ?

I think that has your low frame rate each second or so in (brackets).
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Calvinthesneak]

               Yeah I was.  I usually hit the 20 when something like horses appeared.  My world has a goodly number of high poly creatures, parts, monsters, tiles, etc.    I suppose any good world will at this point.  I'm quite content with my performance considering that people with 400 series cards can't play at all.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Jedijax]

               So, what would you suggest as the perfect option? I've been meaning to change my card for some time, but NWN 1 is my most important game, regardless of any other new games coming around. I could care less if my machine is an übber monster if it lacks the ability to display NWN 1 PERFECTLY. What would you guys buy in my place? I'm on a quad core duo extreme at 2.8, no overclock, with 2 gigs of RAM under windows 7 x86
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               I am also thinking of my next card.



I wonder if ATI cards are working better. All the complaints I see, seem to be on NVidia cards.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Calvinthesneak]

               Both Nvidia and ATI have issues with the new generation cards.  For NWN it's usually a combination of tweaking the drivers and the game settings to make it happy.  My GTX 295 runs nearly perfect, but milage seems to vary on individual hardware and capability to configure it.  I'm not sure what to recommend at this point, some people are having issues with 400 series Nvidia cards not working at all.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Jedijax]

               I wouldn't go for an ATI, Lowlander. I ran NWN under several Nvidia cards before I got my 3870 for a leg and an arm about three or four years ago, and it is the first video card that has given me trouble. This is mainly why I want to buy a new one, and it most probably be an Nvidia.



This is actually why I came here, seeking advise. Sadly enough, I don't have the money for a 295, like Calvin suggests, seeing as down here, in my god-forsaken country, it sells in about 750 dollars.



How about a GTS 250?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lord Sullivan]

               

Jedijax wrote...

So, what would you suggest as the perfect option? I've been meaning to change my card for some time, but NWN 1 is my most important game, regardless of any other new games coming around. I could care less if my machine is an übber monster if it lacks the ability to display NWN 1 PERFECTLY. What would you guys buy in my place? I'm on a quad core duo extreme at 2.8, no overclock, with 2 gigs of RAM under windows 7 x86

If you want the full NWN graphical experience and don't need the latest most powerfull

ZOTAC 9800 GT ECO (No PCI-E Power needed)

USA -> www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx
Canada -> www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx

Your still getting quite decent graphic performance with this card and can still use "Shiny Water" as
the ATI cards since the new "HD Series" drivers don't display "Shiny Water" correctly.

I just bout the 512Mb version last week and it works like a champ! '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Jedijax]

               In the card rank I checked here (and it may be good to put a link in the thread so others may benefit from such categorization) http://www.overclock...-time-last.html the GTS 250 is just a little above the one you mentioned. How about that one? Has anyone any advise on it? Is it working good with NWN?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Calvinthesneak]

               

Jedijax wrote...

I wouldn't go for an ATI, Lowlander. I ran NWN under several Nvidia cards before I got my 3870 for a leg and an arm about three or four years ago, and it is the first video card that has given me trouble. This is mainly why I want to buy a new one, and it most probably be an Nvidia.

This is actually why I came here, seeking advise. Sadly enough, I don't have the money for a 295, like Calvin suggests, seeing as down here, in my god-forsaken country, it sells in about 750 dollars.

How about a GTS 250?

I bought my 295 a more than a year ago, and I can't find anywhere to get another.  They still rank the 295 as one of the very top cards.

The 250 probably would be fine, everyone seems to have gotten them to work for NWN without issues.

This chart might help you out a little in trying to sort out the differences in price/rank of cards.
http://www.tomshardw...gpu,2732-7.html
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               

Lord Sullivan wrote...

If you want the full NWN graphical experience and don't need the latest most powerfull

ZOTAC 9800 GT ECO (No PCI-E Power needed)

Your still getting quite decent graphic performance with this card and can still use "Shiny Water" as
the ATI cards since the new "HD Series" drivers don't display "Shiny Water" correctly.

A 9800GT is essentially the same as my 8800GT with a few more execution units enabled. Its OK.

But considering that even a GTX 295 (beast of a card) is still dipping to 20 FPS occaisionally, I don't think the bottleneck is really the GPU. NWN must be have multiple bottlenecks that dont seem to improve that much with better hardware. 

Also shiny water can still cause issues with NVidia cards as well. I crashed at the same place every time in the Prophet chapter 2 module at the same place. With the Author, we traced it to cool looking doors that used a shiny water effect.  Those doors + Nvidia + shiny water= Crash. 

Even after an upgrade from XP-32 to Win7-64, I still crashed at the same place with shiny water on.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Jedijax]

               Wow!... Now you've got me worried! I despise my ati card, and had always used Nvidia before, without any troubles. Shiny water is precisely one of the features I want back! I hadn't heard it was also an issue with Nvidia cards!
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lord Sullivan]

               

Lowlander wrote...

Lord Sullivan wrote...

If you want the full NWN graphical experience and don't need the latest most powerfull

ZOTAC 9800 GT ECO (No PCI-E Power needed)

Your still getting quite decent graphic performance with this card and can still use "Shiny Water" as
the ATI cards since the new "HD Series" drivers don't display "Shiny Water" correctly.

A 9800GT is essentially the same as my 8800GT with a few more execution units enabled. Its OK.

But considering that even a GTX 295 (beast of a card) is still dipping to 20 FPS occaisionally, I don't think the bottleneck is really the GPU. NWN must be have multiple bottlenecks that dont seem to improve that much with better hardware. 

Also shiny water can still cause issues with NVidia cards as well. I crashed at the same place every time in the Prophet chapter 2 module at the same place. With the Author, we traced it to cool looking doors that used a shiny water effect.  Those doors + Nvidia + shiny water= Crash. 

Even after an upgrade from XP-32 to Win7-64, I still crashed at the same place with shiny water on.

Well, I never experienced a crash because of "Shiny water" myself weither it be with an ATI or Nvidia card on any
of my systems troughout the years. I wouldn't be so quick to blame video card drivers nor video cards. It can be
other problems such as with the model itself or could be something else. The only crashes I've experienced
where either a "corrupted save" or "Sound" related, but even that was not all that often, infact very rare.

The only problem I have with ATI since the HD series is that it doesn't display shiny water correctly at all, so for the newest NVidia cards, I can't say, but I know for sure that up to 9800 it's fine.

Other thing to consider is that for some reason, you'll never get like 60+ fps minimum with this game apparently. Could  just be the way it's coded, could have to do with OpenGL 1.5, who knows...
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lord Sullivan, 06 octobre 2010 - 05:29 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Jedijax]

               "The only problem I have with ATI since the HD series is that it doesn't display shiny water correctly at all"



Well, that's exactly what I meant. I haven't had crashes because of shiny water being activated in my previous NVidia cards, and I certainly haven't had any on the present ATI one, BECAUSE IT IS SCREWED UP TO BEGIN WITH!



This is why I said I wanted to "get it back." To be honest, I have customized my game to look as cool and realistic as possible, and the "un-shiny water" is the only thing looking so lame and under-developed that I can't stand it anymore!



Oh, and I do have other issues with my fantastic ATI card, so it is not merely the "Unshiny water" that makes mad. I don't know about ATI cards in general, merely talking about the 3800 models.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               

Lord Sullivan wrote...

Well, I never experienced a crash because of "Shiny water" myself weither it be with an ATI or Nvidia card on any
of my systems troughout the years. I wouldn't be so quick to blame video card drivers nor video cards. It can be
other problems such as with the model itself or could be something else. The only crashes I've experienced
where either a "corrupted save" or "Sound" related, but even that was not all that often, infact very rare.

Quite sure it was Shiny water related. Several people reported the crash.  Once I reported shiny water problem, the crash stopped for everyone when they turned it off.

It was a combination of shiny water and the Door which had a shiny water effect on it. The author changed the doors and the crash stopped.

But it wasn't all water. There were streams in other areas and they worked with Shiny water on.

I still tend to run with Shiny water off because a couple of other times I seems to have crashed intermittently near water effects with it on. That door was the only consistent crasher.

I don't think I would change Video cards just to turn on shiny water in NWN. It isn't that impressive.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lord Sullivan]

               

Lowlander wrote...

Lord Sullivan wrote...

Well, I never experienced a crash because of "Shiny water" myself weither it be with an ATI or Nvidia card on any
of my systems troughout the years. I wouldn't be so quick to blame video card drivers nor video cards. It can be
other problems such as with the model itself or could be something else. The only crashes I've experienced
where either a "corrupted save" or "Sound" related, but even that was not all that often, infact very rare.

Quite sure it was Shiny water related. Several people reported the crash.  Once I reported shiny water problem, the crash stopped for everyone when they turned it off.

It was a combination of shiny water and the Door which had a shiny water effect on it. The author changed the doors and the crash stopped.

But it wasn't all water. There were streams in other areas and they worked with Shiny water on.

I still tend to run with Shiny water off because a couple of other times I seems to have crashed intermittently near water effects with it on. That door was the only consistent crasher.

I don't think I would change Video cards just to turn on shiny water in NWN. It isn't that impressive.

Well hey, I'm not suggesting to anyone to change cards, but I am offering my suggestion based on the best option I know of to those who are looking to get a new one.

As for the "Shiny water" crashes, I would of loved to know the hardware configuration of those with whom it was an issue, because like I said, I have played the game on multiple different systems from low end ones to high end ones and I never suffered crashes related to shiny water. I have however, suffered crashes in modules built with some custom content... badly made custom content mind you.

As for whether "Shiny water" is impressive or not to one person is not really important, what is more important however is whether one prefers the game with or without. In my case, given the choise between the lame cartoonish animated water and shiny? I'll take shiny any day. It really comes down to how you prefer to view the 3D environment around you when playing.

On a side note, I'm not discrediting your claims of crashes, just saying that it is not an issue for everyone. In the case of the Module you mentioned, it's safe to say that the door model(s) weren't designed right.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lord Sullivan, 07 octobre 2010 - 01:34 .