[NWN+SoU+HotU] No character models, clean install

[Legacy_Raijen]

               So I just decided to reinstall for a bit of nostalgia.  Clean install from non-diamond cd's.

Installed Base, SoU and HotU in order, then manually patched using the patch from bioware's site. (NWNEnglish1.69HotUUpdate.exe).  Installed the CEP as well and then launched NWN

To my surprise, in the character creation preview, and then when i went into it, the game itself, there were no character models.  I could mouseover where they should be and there'd be a glow effect, and I could interact, but no models themselves

So i uninstalled everything, blew away my directory, and then just installed and patched, no CEP.  Same result

Anything I'm missing?  Is there a soloution for this?

Specs: WinXP SP3,
2.6 GhZ Celeron
1 gb Ram
ATI x1650 AGP (1gb VRam),
System assigned virtual memory
3 gigs free currently on OS/Swap drive, ~80 on drive that NWN is installed on.

Thanks in advance.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               Your specific game version is conspicuously missing from your specs.  You should be having little/no problems running WinXP with any of the English retail versions.

The patch you referenced (I am assuming you are referring to the Critical Rebuild for v1.69) was specifically designed for the Diamond DVD (which you obviously don't own) and the Platinum version.  So, unless you installed the Platinum version, you are probably trying to patch with the wrong file.

So at this point, we would need to at least know exactly which version you are trying to patch before recommending anything useful.

Question:  Have you been able to play the game properly with the basic un-patched version you installed?

Use the BioWare patch index page to determine which is the appropriate file DL to use and then opt for the Critical Rebuild version (it's smaller!).  You may need to experiment if your version does not specifically match the version described on that page.

Be aware that there were some versions of NwN like the Atari Greatest Hits (or whatever it's called) that were NOT supported all the way through to v1.69.

Without patching successfully to v1.69 (and being able to play fine at that point), don't waste your efforts installing the CEP.  ﾃつ It PROBABLYﾃつ won't work properly.

If however, you still have no luck locating a Critical Rebuild version that solves your problem, add in your full version, system & hardware specs (including driver idents) by editing your original post so others can more handily assist you. The "Start Here" sticky provides this information for you.
               
               

               

                     Modifiﾃδｩ par HipMaestro, 04 septembre 2010 - 03:04 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Shia Luck]

               Easy answer I think (well, hope anyway) to this one.



Go to video options and uncheck "show environmental effects on characters"



If that fixes it, update your video drivers.



Good luck '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Raijen]

               Sorry, Version 1.69



The bioware patch page says the paticular rebuild i'm using is for "NWN: Hordes of the Underdark

(English) (also for Platinum/ Diamond editions)" -- There are no other 1.69 patches for english HotU (even thought it's not diamond, I bought my game/expansions within a week of their release, or in the case of the original base game, preordered)



The game did show the characters when unpatched though.



I'll try that Enviromental Effects option when I get home in a few hours and let you know.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Raijen]

               No dice -- The game crashes when i try to bring up the video options in-game menu.  Gonna try doing another clean install but try 1.68 instead later tonight or tommorow.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               

Raijen wrote...

No dice -- The game crashes when i try to bring up the video options in-game menu.  Gonna try doing another clean install but try 1.68 instead later tonight or tommorow.

OK. Look. ﾃつ I'm at a tremendous disadvantage here because I only ever bought and installed via Diamond version but let me try to logic this out. ﾃつ You've been reluctant to disclose the exact version that you purchased (eg. Platinum, Gold, Original, Collector's, one of the Atari Collection packs, etc. ) so all I can do is give an example and hope the community will clarify it if it is not accurate. ﾃつ So here goes...

Suppose you bought the Gold version. ﾃつ Then a year later decided to buy the HotU expansion. ﾃつ 

Now along comes the v1.69 patch and there are different versions of the patch written to update a specific version. okay?

So what I would do is patch my Gold version with the appropriate Critical Rebuild, and in this hypothetical example, it would have been http://files.bioware...9SoUUpdate.exe.

That would have updated the game successfully to v1.69 at which point I would start a game of the OC, then start one of SoU, then open up the toolset (if Gold provides toolset access, that is) and test it out a bit. ﾃつ If everything works fine, then I would install the HotU expansion that I bought and test that out. ﾃつ Should problems arise, I would suspect something on the HotU disc got corrupted somehow. ﾃつ If no problems, I would install CEP and then test all the above once again to be sure the overall stability was not compromised by the CEP overrides.

Now that's the way ~I~ would do it, but if there is a better way, others will surely chime in about it.

My point is that depending on the GAME version (NOT the PATCH version!) you installed, the corresponding Critical Rebuild file name will vary. ﾃつ Just because you bought both expansions doesn't mean you will automatically use the Diamond patch on all installations. ﾃつ Oft times the expansions are included in the collections but which patch you will need is problematic unless you uncover which standard version it is based on. The fact that your game plays fine and needs no graphic adjustments while un-patched seems to indicate the graphic card/driver should not be an issue once you've patched with the right patch file. ﾃつ Shia? ﾃつ Make sense?

So for the other more "exotic" collection versions, you may need to experiment to find out which patch is the appropriate one if it isn't obvious on the patch index page or within the documentation that came with the disc set .

I hope this sheds some light on your situation and also hope others will either confirm this is the case or recommend the proper procedure to apply the latest patch for game versions that DOﾃつ NOT use the Diamond/Platinum patch.

Sure hope you get it to work. ﾃつ It shouldn't be that difficult with XP and a decent ATI card like you have.
               
               

               

                     Modifiﾃδｩ par HipMaestro, 05 septembre 2010 - 01:05 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Raijen]

               Update - I do get models with a clean, unpatched install, which means it is a patch issue presumably.

Sorry if i wasn't clear, I purchased all three games seperately, not as a collection versions (Original NWN, then boxed versions of SoU and HotU)

::Edit Original NWN was the limited edition with the artbook, shirt etc.  - shouldn't make a difference because my cd's and my friend's cd's look the same and he got the standard edition, but in case it does...::

On the patch page you linked earlier, I see only three english options

* NWN: Hordes of the Underdark (English) (also for Platinum/ Diamond editions)
* NWN: Shadows of Undrentide (English) (also for Gold edition)
* Original NWN (English)

I've been using the first option out of the three, do I need to do all three in order?  I.e install the original patch then SoU patch and then HotU patch, 1.69 versions of each?  This is the next approach I'm planning on trying (going to download the patches overnight)

At the bottom of the same patch page it states "Note: Each patch contains all updates from previous patches" so to be honest I'm not sure if this is goign to work, but it's worth a shot.

Thanks for all the suggestions and advice, if only the autopatcher still worked '>
               
               

               

                     Modifiﾃδｩ par Raijen, 05 septembre 2010 - 06:29 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               

Raijen wrote...

Update - I do get models with a clean, unpatched install, which means it is a patch issue presumably.

Sorry if i wasn't clear, I purchased all three games seperately, not as a collection versions (Original NWN, then boxed versions of SoU and HotU)

::Editﾃつ Original NWN was the limited edition with the artbook, shirt etc.ﾃつ  - shouldn't make a difference because my cd's and my friend's cd's look the same and he got the standard edition, but in case it does...::

On the patch page you linked earlier, I see only three english options

* NWN: Hordes of the Underdark (English) (also for Platinum/ Diamond editions)
* NWN: Shadows of Undrentide (English) (also for Gold edition)
* Original NWN (English) < - - - - - - - - - Use the Critical rebuild for this version (link provided below)ﾃつ 

I've been using the first option out of the three, do I need to do all three in order?  I.e install the original patch then SoU patch and then HotU patch, 1.69 versions of each?  This is the next approach I'm planning on trying (going to download the patches overnight)

At the bottom of the same patch page it states "Note: Each patch contains all updates from previous patches" so to be honest I'm not sure if this is goign to work, but it's worth a shot. Just means you don't need to apply any other precursor patches before 1.69. ﾃつ That's a good thing! '>

Thanks for all the suggestions and advice, if only the autopatcher still worked '>

Skip the updater. ﾃつ It doesn't work for anybody. ﾃつ Use the Critical Rebuild downloads. ﾃつ They are near the bottom of the page for each of the pages linked by the respective patch version numbers. ﾃつ I have furnished the appropriate CR link for you myself , in advance, to save you the trouble of hunting. ﾃつ Click and specify a folder name.

I would try this one first: NWNEnglish1.69OrigUpdate.exe. ﾃつ That seems to be the correct one for your version. ﾃつ You should need only one patch to get to v1.69 status. Then install SoU and then finally HotU. ﾃつ PLAYTEST after each step to check if anything is out of synch. ﾃつ Also, open the toolset and test making a module or else DL some small vanilla module from the vault and open it (Halls of Advanced Training is a very small module, if you like to test with that one). ﾃつ Apply CEP lastly, and only if all else is functioning at the v1.69 level with all expansions installed. ﾃつ That way, should you have some problems you will know it is some CEP override or hak which encompasses LOTS of modifications.

Only if the patch for original version doesn't get you to v1.69 will there be a problem and need for further experimentation with other patch versions or sequence of installation (it is possible that having the 2 expansions already installed will still work together with the above-linked patch but I would try it first with the sequence outlined above).

You are correct, though. ﾃつ There are only 3 different English Windows patch versions for v1.69 so if you do need to experiment further, those are the only ones to play with. ﾃつ Hopefully, that will not be necessary.

Let's get this puppy up and running. ﾃつ How about it?'>
               
               

               

                     Modifiﾃδｩ par HipMaestro, 05 septembre 2010 - 07:48 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Shia Luck]

               

HipMaestro wrote...

Raijen wrote...

No dice -- The game crashes when i try to bring up the video options in-game menu.  Gonna try doing another clean install but try 1.68 instead later tonight or tommorow.

So here goes...

Suppose you bought the Gold version.  Then a year later decided to buy the HotU expansion.  

Now along comes the v1.69 patch and there are different versions of the patch written to update a specific version. okay?

So what I would do is patch my Gold version with the appropriate Critical Rebuild, and in this hypothetical example, it would have been http://files.bioware...9SoUUpdate.exe.

That would have updated the game successfully to v1.69 at which point I would start a game of the OC, then start one of SoU, then open up the toolset (if Gold provides toolset access, that is) and test it out a bit.  If everything works fine, then I would install the HotU expansion that I bought and test that out.  ...
Now that's the way ~I~ would do it, but if there is a better way, others will surely chime in about it.

Ok , best start with a disclaimer. I am not a tech person and have no idea what I am doing theoretically... I just fiddle with things and remember what works.

Hip, in Europe we dont have diamond or platinum, so I think the OP is using the right critical update. I can't say now whether my install was from deluxe edition or from 3 seperate purchases of single disks cos i have both, but if HoTU is installed I'd be using the HoTU critical rebuild.  (actually my nwconfig.ini claims i have a platinum version which is unlikely seeing as i don't own one... must mean platinum equivalent, no?)

What you say has a logic to it, I see that, but it's not what I did. (But then my route was install all disks , update to 1.68, then update to 1.69 when it was released.)

Wouldn't your way mean the new content that came with HoTU disk is running at a different version than the rest of NWN? How would shadowdancer's epic shadowlord get updated if you don't run the HoTU 1.69 patch?

The fact that your game plays fine and needs no graphic adjustments while un-patched seems to indicate the graphic card/driver should not be an issue once you've patched with the right patch file.  Shia?  Make sense?

I think, not necessarily. 1.69 included DDS textures that some graphics cards find hard to draw. Old video drivers and old cards find them especially difficult.

That it crashes when the OP tries to adjust video settings means I still think video drivers are a possible problem. And when 1.69 came out , I had exactly this problem of my PC being invisible, until my vid card company released new drivers, which took them months at the time. I got around it until the new drivers came out by disabling environmental effects on the PC.

OP: Go to nwn folder and open NWN.ini with notepad. Find the line Enable CreatureEnvironmentMapping=1 and change the 1 to a 0. See if that makes a difference. (make shiny water =0 as well) (In fact do it with all those things like grass, shadow casting lights etc.. set them all to 0 and see what happens... MAKE A BAKUP FIRST!!! *grin* )

Sure hope you get it to work.  It shouldn't be that difficult with XP and a decent ATI card like you have.

It's an ati card? I missed that. That's what I use too. Either disable or set to standard the catalyst AI, nwn doesn't like advanced setting sometimes... and check you have latest drivers.

Sorry my info contradicts Hip's....   he might be right, but it is not what I did.

Good Luck '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               

Shia Luck wrote...
Sorry my info contradicts Hip's.... ﾃつ  he might be right, but it is not what I did.ﾃつ 

More opinions are always a blessing, Shia. ﾃつ I can follow your reasoning as well as my own. ﾃつ The OP should extract whatever is useful and plunge forward. ﾃつ 

The scenario I had considered was the person buying the original NwN, playing while patches were gradually improved until the original version of NwN was eventually operating at v1.69. ﾃつ Now, at that point they may have decided to buy an expansion, like SoU. ﾃつ Now does that mean they needed to repatch 1.69 this time with the Gold patch? Dunno. ﾃつ And suppose for their birthday, a friend slipped them a copy of the HotU expansion. Would they now need to patch to 1.69 a third time, this time with the HotU patch? ﾃつ I'm sure you can see where I am going here. ﾃつ The only way to know what works and what doesn't is to experiment. ﾃつ There's nothing on the patch page that describes each installation permutation. ﾃつ Sadly.

Now add all the European versions into the mix and things become pretty foggy.

Bottom line is: one of the 3 English versions MUST work so how one gets to the appropriate one doesn't matter as long as it works. ﾃつ If Shia is correct, then the compressed graphic files may be hard to digest for your machine and need some video adjustments to handle them.ﾃつ 

Clear as mud, isn't it? ﾃつ 
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Skildron]

               

HipMaestro wrote...

Shia Luck wrote...
Sorry my info contradicts Hip's....   he might be right, but it is not what I did. 

More opinions are always a blessing, Shia.  I can follow your reasoning as well as my own.  The OP should extract whatever is useful and plunge forward.  

The scenario I had considered was the person buying the original NwN, playing while patches were gradually improved until the original version of NwN was eventually operating at v1.69.  Now, at that point they may have decided to buy an expansion, like SoU.  Now does that mean they needed to repatch 1.69 this time with the Gold patch?

Yes, that means exactly that because the installation program installs the binaries (nwn.exe, nwmain.exe, nwtoolset.exe, ...) from the cd not regarding if you have your original version patched to a higher patch level than that on your install cd. Bear in mind that when the expansions were published, the game versions on the expansion cds usually were a higher version than the one already installed, so this behaviour makes sense.

So, to make it clear: If you have installed NWN without any expansions, then you use the nwn patch. If you have NWN+SoU, you use the SoU patch. If you have NWN+HotU (yes, this is possible) or NWN+SoU+HotU, you use the HotU patch. It does not matter, which package your original install came from.

Dunno.  And suppose for their birthday, a friend slipped them a copy of the HotU expansion. Would they now need to patch to 1.69 a third time, this time with the HotU patch?  I'm sure you can see where I am going here.  The only way to know what works and what doesn't is to experiment.  There's nothing on the patch page that describes each installation permutation.  Sadly.

Now add all the European versions into the mix and things become pretty foggy.

For the european versions, there were language specific patches up to 1.68. 1.69 never was published in any other language than english. But there are workarounds, if you want, e.g. a german, 1.69.

Bottom line is: one of the 3 English versions MUST work so how one gets to the appropriate one doesn't matter as long as it works.  If Shia is correct, then the compressed graphic files may be hard to digest for your machine and need some video adjustments to handle them. 

The compressed DDS graphics may well be the problem. Update your drivers to the latest version and see wether it solves your display problems.

Greetings
Skildron
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               

Skildron wrote...

HipMaestro wrote...

The scenario I had considered was the person buying the original NwN, playing while patches were gradually improved until the original version of NwN was eventually operating at v1.69. ﾃつ Now, at that point they may have decided to buy an expansion, like SoU. ﾃつ Now does that mean they needed to repatch 1.69 this time with the Gold patch?

Yes, that means exactly that because the installation program installs the binaries (nwn.exe, nwmain.exe, nwtoolset.exe, ...) from the cd not regarding if you have your original version patched to a higher patch level than that on your install cd. Bear in mind that when the expansions were published, the game versions on the expansion cds usually were a higher version than the one already installed, so this behaviour makes sense.

So, to make it clear:ﾃつ If you have installed NWN without any expansions, then you use the nwn patch. If you have NWN+SoU, you use the SoU patch. If you have NWN+HotU (yes, this is possible) or NWN+SoU+HotU, you use the HotU patch. It does not matter, which package your original install came from.

Thanks for clearing that up, Skildron. ﾃつ That should point the OP in the right direction to get things working correctly. ﾃつ IMO, YOU should have written the patch descriptions on the Bio page. ﾃつ It would have been much easier to interpret the scope of each version. ﾃつ Kudos!ﾃつ 
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Raijen]

               Thanks for the patching clarification

As per the other helpfull poster with an ATI card; Catalyst Ai is allready off (causes far too many issues for far too many apps to make it worthwile), I allreayd have the last drivers availiable for my card '>


As per the ATI site --

AMD has moved a number of DX9 ATI Radeonﾃ｢窶楪｢ graphics accelerators products
to a legacy driver support structure.  This change impacts Windows XP,
Windows Vista, and Linux distributions.  AMD has moved to a legacy
software support structure for these graphics accelerator products in an
effort to better focus development resources on future products.

Which means either I can hunt some third-party drivers down or wait untill I get my new rig closer to christmas '>

Oh well -- Thanks for all the advice anyhow.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Raijen]

               Update -- Got it working!



I was fiddling around in my driver/CCC settings and noticed that while my Anistropic filtering was set to application controlled there was an option for "Enable high qualigy Anistropic Filtering" when I enabled it the character models worked again!



So if anyone else with an ATI card has issues, give that setting a gander '>



Now i'm off for a nostalgic trip through the Neverwinter Academy '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Skildron]

               Good to know you got it working - and will try to remember this thread for further reference.

Greetings
Skildron
               
               

               

                     Modifiﾃδｩ par Skildron, 06 septembre 2010 - 07:57 .