Okaying... I'm trying again. Is this a little too ambitious?

[Legacy_simomate2]

                I haven't touched NWN for 10 months (boy, gamespy finally stopped supporting us eh?). I was developing a Module, but I gave up... things were getting out of hand, it was very unorganised scripting wise, blueprint wise and a load of other things. I just chucked hakpaks in there with no though thought. It looked awesome, so I'd chuck in there for no reason other then to have it. 

So, I made a load of mistakes, it started getting stressful and just threw it apart in furious frustration...! But that's okay, I guess. At least I can learn from those mistakes and hopefully things won't get out of hand. I'm basically doing the same project again.

I've tried and failed 2 modules now, so this will be my third attempt and I will be taking on board all that I learned from my mistakes. However, I need to know your opinions... does this task seem a little too ambitious for me? What I'm trying to develop, is a level 1-20 module that at first takes a very linear path with 5 big dungeons. But, as you get furthur and furthur into the module, it becomes less and less linear. The main storyline itself remains linear, but you are able to go off path to explore a little and do a whole lot of side quests.

Idealistically, most of the world would not be avaiable after the 4th dungeon. So, if you follow the linear structure you would finish at say, level 14-15. However, if you go off path you may finish at level 20. There are four henchmen and you meet each in the bits in bettween dungeons. I want to allow the PC to give their henchmen equipment etc, so I guess I'll have to make my module suitable for 5 classes... (The module is ranger-based) I've also done a crafting system, where to get good equipment you'll basically need to collect items and craft the stuff yourself. So yeah, when I think about it, it probably is too ambitious, but its an ambition I desperately want to complete... 
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Tarot Redhand]

               First, welcome back. Second you're not the only one who bit off more than they could chew on their first attempt (see Basher's End in my Cast-Offs). The thing is to learn from your mistakes. All of them, if possible. I strongly suspect that what you want to do may well be too ambitious for a first (alright third) attempt to make a module that you would be happy to release. Do not dispair. Instead of trying to make it all in one go, I would suggest splitting it into 5 seperate, but linked, modules. That is one for each of your dungeons and one for the less linear one. I presume that you have the story allready. So why not do as I suggest and leave a cliff hanger at the end of each of the linear modules? This does have a number of advantages. It should make it easier to manage what cc you use. It should lessen any burn out as you will have less to do to make the module. It should generate feedback which you can use to improve later modules. It will make it easier to persuade someone to playtest each module as it will take less time to play through each one.Finally (for this little list of advantages), it will make it much easier to change the storey direction if you find that the original idea isn't working as you had expected.

Hope you find the above useful.

TR
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_simomate2]

               

Tarot Redhand wrote...

First, welcome back. Second you're not the only one who bit off more than they could chew on their first attempt (see Basher's End in my Cast-Offs). The thing is to learn from your mistakes. All of them, if possible. I strongly suspect that what you want to do may well be too ambitious for a first (alright third) attempt to make a module that you would be happy to release. Do not dispair. Instead of trying to make it all in one go, I would suggest splitting it into 5 seperate, but linked, modules. That is one for each of your dungeons and one for the less linear one. I presume that you have the story allready. So why not do as I suggest and leave a cliff hanger at the end of each of the linear modules? This does have a number of advantages. It should make it easier to manage what cc you use. It should lessen any burn out as you will have less to do to make the module. It should generate feedback which you can use to improve later modules. It will make it easier to persuade someone to playtest each module as it will take less time to play through each one.Finally (for this little list of advantages), it will make it much easier to change the storey direction if you find that the original idea isn't working as you had expected.

Hope you find the above useful.

TR

I was indeed considering doing that, but the thing is, I really feel it needs to be connected... however, I see your point and so I think I could consider postponing my old one and doing a new modue. We'll see how I go... thanks '>

Edit: I just thought of something... I don't know if this is possible... but could I do 4 modules seperately, and merge them like the first two when the second one comes out and then add the third module to it? I THINK its possible via erf? BUT would the changes happen to the user's save file. When I tihnk about it, I doubt thats possible...
               
               

               

                     Modifié par simomate2, 20 mars 2013 - 09:35 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Tarot Redhand]

               I think what I am about to say is correct but if it is not someone will soon correct me  '>


I am only 98% sure but I think that a save file for a module consists of the whole of the module and the state (variables etc.) it is in at the moment of save. So while you could do what you propose in the edit you wouldn't be doing anyone playing the module at that point any favours. An alternative would be to release each episode on the same vault page and when all 4 (or 5) have been released (and only after) start work on combining them into one large module making sure to match up the cc in the module properties.

TR 
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               Correct, Tarot.

As an idea, one thing I did in my Siege of the Heavens module:

Since it's only half done, once people reach the halfway point they receive a token of sorts (and can export their character).  Once I release the full module that includes the second half, character that join the module possessing the token will be given the option to skip the first half and effectively pick up where they left off.  In other words, it's an illusion of loading a saved game, of sorts.

Of course, the more possible states and variables in your module, the harder this is to do.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_ffbj]

               When I built Second God War it was designed to emulate my campaign world. I had 5 political factions, and 5 religious ones. Therefore I had to build the 5 capitals for the politics and 5 temples for the religions, with various and sundry towns and dungeons. A most ambitious project that slowly ground to a halt, as my own design eventually made it feel like a labor. Though I must say I learned quite a bit and was able to use the hard knowlege/experience, when building my current Orilion Nights. So 4 years of SGW and 3 working on Orilion, which incidentally only has 1 large city with many areas for the base 8 areas and then around 25 or more for the hinterland and surrounds. So a completely different aproach for the second module, the specific to the general, rather than the general to the specific. For instance SGW has over 200 areas. Though I will still grab creatures/scripts/etc.. I made for SGW to import into my current module.
Yes, it is a big job, but I guess what I am saying is 'Have a Plan'.  Though not a strict inflexible one, but neither an amorphous blob type approach with little or no specific aim.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ffbj, 20 mars 2013 - 10:23 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_MerricksDad]

               

simomate2 wrote...
yeah, when I think about it, it probably is too ambitious, but its an ambition I desperately want to complete... 

Do it! Sounds like my kind of module.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_simomate2]

               

MerricksDad wrote...

simomate2 wrote...
yeah, when I think about it, it probably is too ambitious, but its an ambition I desperately want to complete... 

Do it! Sounds like my kind of module.

Its my kind of module too haha. Its pretty much how many final fantasy games do it. Linear at first, but by the time you reach the end of the game the entire world is fully open. But do keep in mind, I'm not an expert at this and even if I succeded, it doesn't neccessarily mean it will be amazing. '>

An update: I spent basically all day yesterday working on this module and now I'm fully on my way. I've not yet decided if I'll divide it into an episodic format. However, assuming I don't, I'm going to allow for Alpha Testing. More on that later, but basically if anyone is interested in it they can test what I make avaiable for testing and tell me what they think about it and what improvements I should make.

I'm still a little effy about the crafting system... I don't know wether or not I should put a crafting system in there.  
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_simomate2]

               If anyone is interested, I decided to go with the Episodic formot. For now, I will only divulge the title of the first Module: Guardians of Azerharth.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Tarot Redhand]

               Nice title. I only need to know a couple of other things to make me await its arrival with anticipation. Is it RP, Hack'n'Slash or somewhere between and what is the starting level. Promise I won't ask for more than that.

TR
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_ffbj]

               I would just dump crating.  If you do remember to get rid of all the things that drop crafting materials on death like doors.  The crafty system is just too clunky and simply not very good.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_simomate2]

               

Tarot Redhand wrote...

Nice title. I only need to know a couple of other things to make me await its arrival with anticipation. Is it RP, Hack'n'Slash or somewhere between and what is the starting level. Promise I won't ask for more than that.

TR

You begin at level 1. I'm calling it an "Adventure" Module, but there will be some hack and slash. Well, trouble is I don't really know how to define a hack and slash module '>.There will be a "medium" level of roleplay... the PC has a "relationship" value with all NPC's (apart from some of the generic ones). Also some of your choicees will have an impact on things to come. (Which is why I'm making use of the PC's skin)
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_henesua]

               I think your choice to approach your vision as a series of episodes is an excellent idea. This allows you to define a manageable scope for yourself to start.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_simomate2]

               

ffbj wrote...

I would just dump crating.  If you do remember to get rid of all the things that drop crafting materials on death like doors.  The crafty system is just too clunky and simply not very good.

Took me a while to figure out what you were talking about. I'm using my own crafting system which doesn't use the "crafting" skills.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par simomate2, 27 mars 2013 - 07:05 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Tarot Redhand]

               @simomate2, I'm currently searching through all the scripts on the vault and I came across something that I think you might have a use for. It's called Inter-Module Navigation System by Galbor. Now I haven't tried it myself and it was last updated in 2006, so I make no guarantees about it, but it might be of interest to you from what you said earlier in the thread. Anyway hope this is of use.

TR