Author Topic: 2013 February, Adventure Building Challenge  (Read 4438 times)

Legacy_henesua

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2013 February, Adventure Building Challenge
« Reply #30 on: March 01, 2013, 01:06:41 pm »


               

MagicalMaster wrote...

Henesua wrote...
BUT I would prefer that the previous month's work NOT be rolled into next month's challenge. There is no way to police this, but its not in the spirit of the thing.


What about episodic stuff?  For example, I'm only getting about halfway through what I have planned total for this month - was figuring on entering the "whole" thing for another month (keep it as one module for simplicity's sake instead of splitting it in half).  Would you prefer I just finish the second half on my own time and not enter it in the future?


If it is episodic, just enter each episode separately in each month's challenge.

My preference is to have more modules ready for review at the start of the "month" - this coming Monday - rather than wait until the following month to receive both halves of your curent work.

However if you prefer to keep your work in a single module, then I suggest that you release to the challenge what you have now in as playable a form as you can, but keep working on it. When it is complete to your satisfaction, create a separate vault page for your module, upload it there, and let me know. I'll update the link on the challenge page to lead future players to your vault entry as the proper version.

The reason for this is that I want to give "Reviews" a chance this month. This requires that we have Challenge entries ready by Monday for download on the Challenge's vault page. However, most module builders are going to want to keep working on their module - especially after their work is reviewed - so for that you should maintain your own vault page for your module. Anticipating this I plan to link from the challenge page to each builder's vault page AFTER we've given players a chance to review the modules.

MagicalMaster wrote...
Would splitting the module into two part make you happier instead of keeping them together?

Yes. What makes me happy is having more entries for each challenge.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_werelynx

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2013 February, Adventure Building Challenge
« Reply #31 on: March 01, 2013, 04:49:30 pm »


               Have you thought about making the deadline in future challenges 2 months from the start instead of just 1, as it is now?

I'll try to wrap it up as playable, but it WILL suck, missing polymorphs, around which entire plot resolves.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_henesua

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2013 February, Adventure Building Challenge
« Reply #32 on: March 01, 2013, 05:24:26 pm »


               I have thought about it - especially after real life frustrated my own plans to produce a module this month. But to be honest, my problem is ambition. I tend to push up against the edge of what I am capable of rather than scale back to something readily achievable. When real life struck rather than scale back to something very simple, I wasted time on some ideas that were too ambitious.

Anyway, personal anecdotes aside, I think a monthly challenge keeps things moving at a good clip. AND each challenge is somewhat open ended as each participant can continue to improve their module, and we will link to the updated version from the challenge page.

So the Challenge is to generate a working prototype or proof of concept of your idea within a month. You can improve upon it after that. Whether that be an additional month, or six is completely up to the builder.  I say all this to help you see that it is ok if your entry "sucks", you will still be able to improve upon it later, and we'll link to your improved work.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par henesua, 01 mars 2013 - 05:25 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_jackkel dragon

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2013 February, Adventure Building Challenge
« Reply #33 on: March 01, 2013, 06:30:45 pm »


               While I can understand the argument for a longer timeframe, I sort of agree that the challenge itself should be a module a month. Since the modules can be updated later, you really only need a prototype ready to go to submit, then you can use the reviews as a sort of guideline as if you hired beta testers for the project.

Of course, now that I say that I sort of obligate myself to sumbitting *something*. While the first module of my miniseries is nowhere near done, I recently remembered that I did make a working "hub" module... it's very sparse and incomplete, but since it'll be an important part going forward I might as well fix a bug in one spot and submit that. Hopefully I can get that submitted later today. (Of course, there will have to be a disclaimer that this isn't an actual adventure module like the rest will be.)

Edit: I sent my submission. If it doesn't meet the requirements, feel free to withhold it. I'll probably package this hub module with next month's submission anyway, as it'll need an update to work properly with the adventure modules.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par jackkel dragon, 01 mars 2013 - 06:59 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_MagicalMaster

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2013 February, Adventure Building Challenge
« Reply #34 on: March 01, 2013, 10:41:52 pm »


               

henesua wrote...

Yes. What makes me happy is having more entries for each challenge.


Sorry, I should have been clearer.

I'm planning on sending in a module regardless this month.

However, the question is then what I do about the second half of the module - whether I just double the size of the original module (and keep it all in one module) or make a separate module entirely for part 2.

I'd prefer just to keep working on the original module instead of making a separate part 2 (same story and everything either way, just a question of one module in the end or two in the end).

It sounds like you have no objection to "resubmitting" the module in the future when it has the full adventure instead of just the first half (and the first half will be for this month).

Also, by my calculations, the deadline is still at least nine hours away, right?  About 3 PM PST at the moment.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par MagicalMaster, 01 mars 2013 - 10:43 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_henesua

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2013 February, Adventure Building Challenge
« Reply #35 on: March 01, 2013, 10:56:40 pm »


               If that is your preference, then by all means keep your work to one module. But you don't need to send it in more than once. When you release the expanded module make a Vault Page, and I'll link to it from the challenge page.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_rogueknight333

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2013 February, Adventure Building Challenge
« Reply #36 on: March 02, 2013, 07:21:54 am »


               I enjoyed participating in this month's challenge and found it an interesting experiment, but since it is now coming to an end for this month, I suppose it is time to revisit some of the discussion of how it should be organized. My (somewhat critical but I hope constructive) suggestions follow.

After seeing the number of people who had to drop out, or submit an unsatisfactory product at the last minute, I think more than ever that it would be a good idea to make this challenge bimonthly rather than monthly, especially if there are plans to implement a review and revision period as well, as that is just one more thing people involved with the challenge will have to take some time to do. In the course of a month, a participant would be expected to:

-play and review last month's modules
-determine the theme and what CC is sponsored and plan a concept around that
-build a module
-playtest and revise the module (or else submit a hopelessly unpolished entry that will need to be redone)

For most people most of the time, all that is just going to be too much to do in one month. I speak, ironically enough, as one of the few people to submit something for this month's challenge in a timely manner, but that was because I was a sufficiently experienced module builder to have a good idea of what I could realistically accomplish in a month, and plan accordingly, and to know exactly how to implement many of the things I wanted to do. It is true of course that these problems can be mitigated if we have a different set of people building modules in different months. To some extent that will surely be the case, but there will also surely be some overlap, as our pool of potential builders is not exactly unlimited. If we want to expand that pool, furthermore, it could only help to make things easier for less experienced builders, who, of course, can be expected to need more time. I could never have made a module in a month, at least not one anyone would have any interest in playing, if I had tried to do it a few years ago. Again ironically, I think I could work well enough with a monthly time limit myself (in fact I rather appreciated the discipline it imposed - it was for me a useful exercise to focus on speed rather than my usual more perfectionist approach), but I am uncertain how many other people can. If a bimonthly schedule is decided to be not in keeping with the spirit of the thing, a compromise suggestion might be to alternate challenges that must be completed in one month (for more experienced builders and/or those who want to try dealing with the extra challenge) with some that have a longer time period.

I am also uncertain if it is a good idea to encourage builders to put up separate vault entries as a normal thing, or the routine way of correcting bugs. This seems like it would simply clutter up the Vault with duplicate entries for no good reason. If particular builders want to do it that way, then by all means accomodate them. Likewise if someone is planning to put up a version of a challenge entry that has been revised and expanded significantly, it would make sense to do so. However if we are talking about simple corrections like fixing a few typos in dialogue, or eliminating the possibility of a bug by changing one line of code in one script, and the like, this seems a very cumbersome and uneconomical approach. For minor fixes like that, it would seem more sensible for authors to email a revised module which in due course would be used to update the ABC Vault Entry (It appears something like this was done at least a couple of times with the CCC, so it is not completely unprecedented, though of course bugged work is probably going to crop up more commonly with modules). And while some builders may not like having to work through a third party, and should therefore be free to set up separate vault entries if they wish, I think others would actually prefer to have the ABC entry be the main download source for a challenge entry. That provides a good excuse for a certain lack of polish, since realistically not all participants are going to have the time to fix and revise everything that ideally would be.

Finally, is there any particular reason posts for the ABC were put in the Toolset forum rather than the Modules forum? The latter is arguably more appropriate, and has the advantage that it does not normally get all that much activity, whereas in this forum there is the danger that all these ABC-related posts might distract people from posts concerned with the forum's main purpose of giving builders technical advice. Perhaps we should consider switching over to that forum, at least for posts concerned with reviewing modules (definitely a topic that appropriately belongs in the Modules Forum) rather than building them. Just a thought, I doubt it actually matters all that much.

UPDATE: And speaking of posting in appropriate places, this should probably have been posted in the general ABC thread rather than the February specific one. Whoops. Feel free to link or quote and respond from there, if desired.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par rogueknight333, 02 mars 2013 - 07:57 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_henesua

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2013 February, Adventure Building Challenge
« Reply #37 on: March 02, 2013, 10:03:38 pm »


               **********ANNOUNCEMENT**********

February's Adventure Building Challenge is complete.
Check out this month's entries on the vault.

THE PLAYER'S REVIEW OF CHALLENGE ENTRIES BEGINS ... NOW!
Play the modules and make your comments in this thread, post screenshots, let us know what you think. We'll wrap up the review soon, mid month at the latest.

COMPLETION PRIZES
  • rogueknight333
  • PLUSH HYENA of DOOM
  • Werelynx
  • Jakkel Dragon
  • Meaglyn
  • Magical Master

HONORABLE MENTIONS
  • Rolo Kipp
*********************************

Completion Prizes are awarded to those that meet the deadline.
Honorable Mentions are available to all that participate (but only handed out when I have time to post your entry).
               
               

               


                     Modifié par henesua, 02 mars 2013 - 10:12 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_MagicalMaster

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2013 February, Adventure Building Challenge
« Reply #38 on: March 03, 2013, 03:48:29 am »


               Separate entry for Siege of the Heavens updates is up if you want to add the link:

http://nwvault.ign.c....Detail&id=6386
               
               

               
            

Legacy_jackkel dragon

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2013 February, Adventure Building Challenge
« Reply #39 on: March 03, 2013, 04:12:30 am »


               I unfortunately couldn't really get into Siege of the Heavens due to my poor knowledge of epic-level combat, but I did play and finish Snow Hunt, so here's my first ABC review (hopefully more to come soon, once I have time):

- - - -

Review of: Snow Hunt (by rogueknight333)

This module felt just right in the amount of content for the amount of time spent playing the module, and is impressive considering the time restraints the module was built under. Playing as a wizard (autoleveled to 12 and equipped by the starting room gear) I managed to (barely) get to level 13 while completing most of the optional content and scribing scrolls. The amount of XP and gear rewards seemed fair for the effort involved in most of the content. The largest challenge for me was keeping the henchman alive, since as long as I remembered to cast certain spells before combat or keep a scroll of Invisibility handy I tended to be safe from most enemies. This meant I had to rely on using Invisibility mutliple times per fight, but this is partially my own fault for not investing in the Rod of Resurrection available in each of the stores I found.

One of the highlights of the module for me was the optional area that had chests and a treasure room that could be unlocked by specific wizard/sorcerer spells, especially since the rewards included a powerful magic item (I forgot the exact item type) that ended up saving me in a few difficult fights later on. I also enjoyed the two encounters that involved creatures that are usually enemies to player characters, but could be resolved without violence.

Another positive for this module is the large number of custom items and a few custom script systems. The Elixer of Regeneration in particular was very useful due to the number of uses it had before being used up. It was also nice to see the random potion and gold bags (I believe I saw these in another module, which was probably Swordflight Chapter 1, but it's still an interesting system to me.)

It's hard to say anything about the story without spoiling it, but I can say that it was very interesting for such a short module that focused more on combat and exploration than conversation. I particularly liked how the player character could piece together a certain revelation at one point based on their stats, although I'm probably just saying that because I HAD those stats...

There's not much I can think of in the way of flaws... aside from one encounter in the first forest area where enemies can spawn on top of the player, a lot of my problems are with the base systems and not the module itself. For instance, the amount of backtracking to get to the initial safe rest area from some places got very annoying due to the base move speed, but that's just part of NWN (and I really can't complain about that when I have 8 castings of Expeditious Retreat prepared and one of the optional encounters rewards an item with permanent Haste cast on it).

Overall, this was a great module and I feel it's a wonderful example of the potential of the Adventure Building Challenge. I think rogueknight333 deserves a medal.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par jackkel dragon, 03 mars 2013 - 04:13 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_MagicalMaster

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2013 February, Adventure Building Challenge
« Reply #40 on: March 03, 2013, 04:52:17 am »


               

jackkel dragon wrote...

I unfortunately couldn't really get into Siege of the Heavens due to my poor knowledge of epic-level combat


Would providing a character as a .bic file help in cases like yours (probably a fighter type to keep class mechanics simple)?  That way if you're not familar with the epic ruleset, you can just grab him and go?
               
               

               
            

Legacy_jackkel dragon

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2013 February, Adventure Building Challenge
« Reply #41 on: March 03, 2013, 05:21:18 am »


               

MagicalMaster wrote...

jackkel dragon wrote...

I unfortunately couldn't really get into Siege of the Heavens due to my poor knowledge of epic-level combat


Would providing a character as a .bic file help in cases like yours (probably a fighter type to keep class mechanics simple)?  That way if you're not familar with the epic ruleset, you can just grab him and go?


It might help, but since the module is kind enough to autolevel the character and the gear seemed to be cheap, I might just make my own fighter character. I do sort of wish the module granted some gold for gear though... I happened to use a character file that had no gold, and thus went into battle with only the starting clothing...

Edit: Now that I think on it a bit, it might be a good idea to create a lv40 character with decent feats and skills and such for players that don't play many epic-level modules. It wouldn't have to be a perfect build, but having something to try out the module with could be helpful.

As an addendum to my Snow Hunt review, one of the few things I'd change is to add the Concentration check  from using the item that lets you cause a rest effect while in combat to the chat log, so the player has an idea whether it's worth trying to use it. I'd imagine people don't want to lose a bunch of 5k gold items without knowing why.

In other news, I'm cruising through A Rare Vintage. A few notes to Meaglyn regarding bugs and such so far:

- Asking either of the tavern keepers in the port town for a room ends the conversation with no indication of anything happening (and no rest effects on player).
- The tavern keeper at the Silver Goblet has some token errors, as does the knight at the manor.
- The map pin for the temple in the port town has no text (well, it has the toolset default...)
- Some outputs that appear to be for debugging purposes appear in the chat log during conversations with some quest givers.
- Knight at the manor will tell the player that they've arrived at the servants' sleeping quarters even if the player didn't follow him (meaning the player can get lost and not know where this is.)
- After finding the incriminating note, if the player talks to the knight he seems to offer to assist the player, but doesn't join the party or move from his spot. In addition, the count can't be talked to after this.
- Related to the above, the location of the tower mentioned in the note isn't clear (or I've missed some important piece of information that isn't in the journal entry).

So far, it's pretty good for a level 1 module (which I usually dread due to the fragility of PCs in combat encounters at that level). It's absolutely vital for wizards to have Summon Monster I, though... and it'll help to do the fire beetle quest to get a wand of sleep. There are some weird line endings in the dialogue, but it's understandable and the story is interesting so far.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par jackkel dragon, 03 mars 2013 - 05:23 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_MagicalMaster

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2013 February, Adventure Building Challenge
« Reply #42 on: March 03, 2013, 07:14:01 am »


               

jackkel dragon wrote...

It might help, but since the module is kind enough to autolevel the character and the gear seemed to be cheap, I might just make my own fighter character. I do sort of wish the module granted some gold for gear though... I happened to use a character file that had no gold, and thus went into battle with only the starting clothing...


Er...how does that even happen?  Default characters start with 75 gold (which is enough since the gear costs 1 gold per piece) and I figured non-default characters would have something.  I can fix that easily enough, just give 100g or whatever at the teleport, but I am honestly curious how you had a saved characters with zero gold.

jackkel dragon wrote...

Edit: Now that I think on it a bit, it might be a good idea to create a lv40 character with decent feats and skills and such for players that don't play many epic-level modules. It wouldn't have to be a perfect build, but having something to try out the module with could be helpful.


I could do a basic pure fighter character easily enough.  Non-optimal, but powerful enough to still win.

I'll do both of those and put out v1_01 within a few hours - waiting for some people who are playing it to finish to see if they find any other bugs first.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_MagicalMaster

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2013 February, Adventure Building Challenge
« Reply #43 on: March 03, 2013, 08:48:06 am »


               Added a new version that ensures you have 1000 gold, includes a level 40 dwarf fighter as a bic character, and has a few minor bugfixes.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_henesua

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2013 February, Adventure Building Challenge
« Reply #44 on: March 03, 2013, 02:09:24 pm »


               

MagicalMaster wrote...

Separate entry for Siege of the Heavens updates is up if you want to add the link:

http://nwvault.ign.c....Detail&id=6386


I've changed my mind about posting the links mid month, and just now updated the chalenge entry with the links to the builder maintained modules.

For any builder that has a module source that they would like me to link to, please email me the link. Thanks.