Adventure Building Challenge

[Legacy_Pstemarie]

               

rogueknight333 wrote...

If that state of affairs is unacceptable to you, then you can let others test the waters while keeping open the possiblity of participating in later challenges when the procedures are hopefully more settled.

Amen!
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_meaglyn]

               This is a adventure building challenge with a fixed deadline.  That's the point of it. All this talk of fixing bugs after the deadline is really not relevant to the ABC.  The module submission to the ABC needs to stay in that form, not be fixed and debugged after the fact. Otherwise the deadline in meaningless. By all means publish your own version and update that as you see fit.

A simple disclaimer (and link to a personal vault entry) saying "this is a beta snapshot for ABC purposes if you want to play a fixed version please us this other one. "  should cover the problem of
people downloading and expecting perfection from the ABC modules.

If your module is too buggy to play at the deadline so be it.  Mine probably will be too (if it even gets far enough for the gaps to be considered bugs and not just incompleteness). That's part of the challenge.

So I totally agree with Henesua, who by the way has not gotten personal and has been more than reasonable as far as I can see. There has to be some sort of snapshot of the modules at the deadline.  And since people will want to play the modules as submitted for the challenge there needs to be a way to get that version, not the version the builder fixed up after the deadline. Otherwise what's the point of the due date.

Don't take yourself so seriously...
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_henesua]

               Oddly Invisig0th, you have invested me with powers I do not have. I do not know why that is, nor do I care.

I made a clear offer at the beginning, trust me and I'll do my best to respect your wishes. Yes, I will bend the rules for people. In truth there are no rules. And I certainly do not have any power to enforce them.

The only problem here is of your own making. If you wish to make that problem real for yourself, I can't stop you. You are the only one who can do anything about that. Because it is really this simple: as in all things in life, you can do whatever you like.

Put up or shut up, Invisig0th.

Produce a module, or do not.

It is that simple.

If you want anything from me, however, you need to offer something. At present, Invisig0th, you've offered nothing at all, and so I am not inclined to give you anything back. What this means is up to you to decide. As far as I am concerned, my time is too precious to waste on whatever it is that you think you are doing here.

And just so that this is clear:
I'll work with anyone who participates in the challenge to give them the recognition they deserve. If anyone doesn't wish to follow the criteria of the challenge posted at the top of the thread, then we'll have to work something out. But if you want something from the challenge, you are going to have to participate in the challenge. In other words, if you want to discuss the terms at which you offer your submission, you better have something to submit before I will discuss it with you.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Tyndrel]

               Thanks Henesua for all the time and effort you have put into this, there is bound to be the odd teething problem but given a couple of months they'll all be sorted out. Please don't be put off, this is a great idea.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_OldTimeRadio]

               I just wanted to chip in some words of encouragement, too.  Any endeavour like this is going to undergo growing pains and tweaks here and there and that's perfectly normal.

I'm lost in another labrynth of my own making so I doubt I'll be able to contribute this month.  But for anyone who might need a little push in the right direction, structure-wise, I really like the concept of the Five Room Dungeon.  It's a great way to quickly get a framework for a module and it doesn't have to be a "dungeon" at all.  The concept can be modified, tweaked, or abstracted into whatever one needs it to be.  Some examples of the Five Room Dungeon concept can be found here (PDF).
               
               

               

                     Modifié par OldTimeRadio, 13 février 2013 - 05:45 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Tarot Redhand]

               I found it a bit strange that Invisig0th apparently didn't know about the GOG contest of only a couple of years ago when they have been around nwn since 2002. I therefore did a little research and have a list of things that they might be interested in looking up, especially as a couple of these contradict some things that they said.

The contest thread (page 1 of 7), wherein nobody had any complaint about handing control of their module over to a third party (I know 'cos I re-read the whole thread).

The GOG page detailing the contest and winners. You will note that there was also a contest for model makers running in paralell with the module making one.

 The winning models.

The winning modules.

Other modules that were entered but didn't win as follows

Balduvard's
SuperFly_2000's and
CheeseshireCat's

While seeking out these links I discovered something very interesting. The following link  has CheeseshireCat detailing the fact that they had just uploaded their module to the vault. However, the really interesting thing is who created the very next thread (that just happened to precede CheeseshireCat's chronologically) as can be seen here.

Given the fact that  Invisig0th hasn't initiated or been the last poster in any thread on here for over 2 years, given the fact that  Invisig0th used to be active in both the custom content and module threads and given the fact that I am apparently forbidden to look at Invisig0th's profile I begin to wonder if the poster in this thread calling themselves  Invisig0th is really who they claim to be.

TR 
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Tarot Redhand, 13 février 2013 - 06:46 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Tyndrel]

               @OldTimeRadio,  Great link, I may be able to start (and finish) something after all  '>

@ Tarot,  Yes, the GOG contest was great fun, this will be too  '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Wensleydale]

               

Tarot Redhand wrote...

Given the fact that  Invisig0th hasn't initiated or been the last poster in any thread on here for over 2 years, given the fact that  Invisig0th used to be active in both the custom content and module threads and given the fact that I am apparently forbidden to look at Invisig0th's profile I begin to wonder if the poster in this thread calling themselves  Invisig0th is really who they claim to be.

TR 

...And the plot thickens! Well done, Mr Holmes. Well done indeed.

And now, here's my unwanted and possibly offensive two cents:

If you don't like the (currently under construction, generously flexible and open to reasonable negotiation) 'rules'... don't participate. Don't force everyone to watch your sad orgy of self-flagellation as you ****** and moan about how much you don't like the rules, or that you're special and unique and a 'sensitive artist' and that life is so terribly unfair because no one understands either you or your work, etc, etc, ad infinitum... 

Because that just makes you look a bit silly. 
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_henesua]

               Alright folks, enough. I'd like to reign this in before this gets taken farther. My hope is that Invisig0th will return to participate - perhaps in a future month when I am able to formalize accommodations for his request. Obviously this is unlikely given his response, but insults certainly won't help matters.

While I did not appreciate Invisig0th's approach, I am sensitive to his request as I think it is valid, and I do think it can and should be accommodated. In fact Rolo and I discussed this same topic before he nudged me to start the thread. But I still have a bit of thinking to do on this.

Given how hot this topic has become, I am not going to risk fueling the fire again by thinking aloud here about possible changes to the ABC, but in a couple weeks or maybe days once this has settled down again I'd like to share my thoughts and discuss them.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_PLUSH HYENA of DOOM]

               Being mad, unreasoningly hostile, rabid and of a highly questionable hybrid species of uncertain provenance, PHoD (whilst in no way wishing to provoke a second series of useless diatribes) wishes to bring to Henesua's notice a small problem that I have already mentioned once before. Maybe more than once...

Namely, this abhorred 12MB limit... I COMPLETELY agree with there being a limit to stop us all spending our whole month creating and amalgamating a wagon-load of CC and then finding there's no time to make a Module with it. I TOTALLY agree that the whole point of this ABC thing is NOT to make great Modules (pause for assorted dark mutters from all concerned including myself), or to spend months afterward turning them into something entirely different, but is just to have fun throwing a few simple, small Modulettes out there and mess around like children in a (small) sandbox...

I'm with this 100% - despite having to give up on a few Custom Music tracks as I don't want to go cluttering the Vault with subs for a few bits of music though Henesua graciously made the option available - but... (finally comes to the point), due to a few ESSENTIAL Module Specific Portraits, my 12MB is now standing at a hideously bulky and noxiously mutated 12.7MB even though I've removed a few extra Placeables and a couple of Texture overrides... Um, can we kind've pretend 12MB just means UNDER 13MB? Pleeeeeeeease? Rolls over, sticks all four paws in air, attempts (unconvincingly) to look cute and harmless.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par PLUSH HYENA of DOOM, 14 février 2013 - 06:16 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_henesua]

               PHoD, close enough for jazz.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Sir Adril]

               I accept the terms of the challenge as they are, but as a writer/artist, I can see a few things about this submission process that might make future potential participants a bit cautious. If you'd like to talk more about it, I'm willing to talk it over in private messages to avoid adding jet fuel to the fire, henesua '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_henesua]

               I would prefer that recommendations for changes to the criteria happen in public. I think I am the one that would be adding to the fire. Others should feel free to discuss.

If you want an exception to be made for yourself, then PM me.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_PLUSH HYENA of DOOM]

               Jazz is good, Jazz is fine, Jazz is the exemplary paragon of sound, Jazz is the superior form of music and will crush the lesser musics, conquer the galaxy and take its rightful place as the SUPREME BEING!

Reaches for Louis Armstrong CD whilst venerating the high name of Henesua...

(That's Hyena Loony gibberish for "thanks").
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Sir Adril]

               Okay, I can see a reason why you'd want it all public, so here's the concern that I think might drive away builders. The underlined bits in the last paragraph are to emphasize the important parts I think would help fix the issue somewhat. Think of it as a cheat sheet.

The fact that their module is uploaded to the ABC first means the first upload isn't initially under the maker's name. This might leave concerns about being able to prove ownership if challenged. With the ABC being the initial uploader, it means that many people will view the ABC as the owner, since they can't then prove that any given submitter made any given module, beyond the fact someone says they are the maker. The second upload by the original maker may not be viewed as good enough proof, since it's easy to download it from ABC then upload under your own name.

I wish people on the internet weren't so petty as to question things like that, but within a creative community, most people will have experienced art theft personally, or will know someone who has. On the internet, being the first source upload is generally a good indication that a person was the owner of a given piece of work.

As I said, it's not a problem for me, but I can see why other people might view it differently.

My suggestion is to make it very very clear within the ABC upload, with proper crediting, who submitted what, and also to state clearly that all original modules belong to their respective creators, not the ABC. It won't satisfy everyone, but it might assuage some doubts for other prospective entrants.