Treasure discussion

[Legacy_Jackrabbit_Slim]

               Like many I have come back to the toolset to start building. My children are at an age that they actually enjoy NWN.

Now my question is about treasure. I already know how to drop my treasure on my monsters or chests, the question is what to drop?

I have the excel spreadsheet from the vault that lists every item,cost, level to use etc. My problem is what to give each level group so the balance doesn't get out of wack. Now I prefer a lower magic world, weapons and armor i can pretty much figure out, its everything else that gives me trouble. Boots,cloaks,jewelry, basically anything magical that could throw that balance off.

Does anyone have any tips? Do you use the cost of the item for the PC's level (i.e 1-10)? The level of the item? How do you determine what level gets Arvoreen's Amulet of Aid for example?

Thanks in advance!
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_SHOVA]

               welcome back.
First, do you have Item level restrictions on?
second, there really isn't a good answer for your question.
NWN handles item level by cost, a 0 - 999gp item is level 1ish
that does nothing for actual balance of the mod. It gets confusing, dealing with it, when your trying to not give over powered items, yet still trying to give non boring treasure.
There are a few things you can do to offset this.
Give potions and scrolls, wands and rods. they are limited use, and will disappear items.
Boots, cloaks, amulets, gloves, those items (to go along with your lower magic end world), never give an item with more than 1 property. (Easy) or more than 1 higher property, and 1 lower property (More problematic) an example would be, +1 to ac, +3 to a skill. Stay away from immunity items, and haste items.

As far as how much is too much, that is up to you. if your kids characters together with gear can take out a monster that is 5+ levels above them, it could be a problem. if they can take out a 10+ levels above them monster, I would say it is a problem.

Also remember, that there are creatures, that can take/ruin gear from characters. the rust monster, the spider thing from HotU. While they are scripted to destroy armor, as a DM, you can have them destroy other gear too, You will just have to remove it from them.

good luck!
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_cmwise]

               There are several loot/treasure  systems on the vault. Although some are complicated they can give you absolute control over drops and treasure. I am not including links as it is easy enough to search the vault.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_SHOVA]

               In addition to my previous, If you open the NW_O2_CONINCLUDE script, it has listed the default treasure for level. you'll have to scroll through it all, and it is not "well defined" for what it actualy gives because it is by resreff of what is to spawn. But it does list the standard NWN items.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               You can also use the default NWN treasure system.

Simply put down a chest from palette and then change the OnOpen and OnDeath scripts to this (if default scripts dont fit)
x0_o2_anylow - low treasure category
x0_o2_anymed - medium treasure category
x0_o2_anyhigh - high treasure category
x0_o2_anyuniq - unique treasure category

now Im not very familiar with default drops, what each category contains because I use an "override" option which is what you could want probably to do as well

To make it work, you have to put somewhere in your area a category container (in palette - treasures - containers and the chosen one must match the category you choosed on the chests placed in that area.

Now place this somewhere where player cant reach it and put some items inside (you can do it even later ingame from DM client). If you do this then if player opens the chest with low category, it search through low container in that area and choose 1-2 random items from there, sometimes even three and sometimes there will be only gold.

Since there are 4 categories you can make 4 unique treasures for each area.

Or, if you are DMing this game you can put things your boys could use inside treasures before they reach them. A bit impractial, but this way you will have absolute control over what they find.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Pstemarie]

               

ShaDoOoW wrote...

You can also use the default NWN treasure system....

What ShaDoOoW is referring to is actually the XP1 Treasure Generation System, first introduced in SoU. It is fully explained in x0_i0_treasure.nss - the library include for the system. In addition to defining treasure drops for areas the system also supports sub-categories: Armor, Books, Clothing, Gold, Melee Weapons, No Ammo Weapons, Potions, and Ranged Weapons.
 
ShaDoOoW was slightly off about the setup though. As taken from the include...

SETUP:
Create four module-wide base containers (for low, medium, high, 
and unique treasure items) and place them anywhere in your 
module. Make sure that they are in locations inaccessible to the 
players, though! 
Give these module-wide base containers these tags (or just use the
blueprints):
    X0_MOD_TREASURE_LOW       - low-level treasure
    X0_MOD_TREASURE_MED       - medium-level treasure 
    X0_MOD_TREASURE_HIGH      - high-level treasure
    X0_MOD_TREASURE_UNIQ      - unique treasure items
Fill the instances of these base containers with appropriate treasure 
for your module. 
 
For any areas where you want finer control over the treasure,
simply create additional base containers (you don't need all four 
-- any one that you skip will fall back to the module-wide version) 
and place them in the area. Give them these tags (same just without 
the "MOD"): 
    X0_TREASURE_LOW       - low-level treasure
    X0_TREASURE_MED       - medium-level treasure 
    X0_TREASURE_HIGH      - high-level treasure
    X0_TREASURE_UNIQ      - unique treasure items
For any treasure container, use one of the following scripts 
as BOTH the OnOpen/OnDeath handler:
Any Treasure: x0_o2_any{low,med,high,uniq} 
Books (book, scroll): x0_o2_book{low,med,high,uniq}
Potions: x0_o2_potn{low,med,high,uniq}
Armor (armor, shield, helm, boots, etc): x0_o2_arm{low,med,high,uniq}
Weapon: x0_o2_weap{low,med,high,uniq}
Gold: x0_o2_gold{low,med,high,uniq} 
Others may also be added. 

It can also be modified for Monsters/NPCs based on Tag or Racial Type.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Pstemarie, 30 octobre 2011 - 10:12 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_SHOVA]

               You all did read that the OP was looking for level appropriate items, not how to give treasure?
While the treasure spawn systems listed do in fact give Standard NWN level treasure, They do not give what is level appropriate to a low magic Mod. Yes you can customize it, but it still doesn't give what was asked for.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               Ok then answer is - manually.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_SHOVA]

               ShaDoOow, you might as well have answered with pancakes.

The OP is asking what is Item level appropriate, Not how to give out treasure, or how to spawn in treasure.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

SHOVA wrote...

ShaDoOow, you might as well have answered with pancakes.

The OP is asking what is Item level appropriate, Not how to give out treasure, or how to spawn in treasure.

Hum, I see.

Well not sure if there is anything what I would add to your original answer, just maybe that there aren't really much appropriate items for really early levels like 1-4. With ILR on, most of these items will need minimal lvl 2-4 anyway.

The ILR can be a guidance but its not very well balanced, item properties like saving throws which are generally not so usefull cost almost the same as an item with the same ammount of AC. Anyway, I wont advice you what itemproperties are appropriate to your settings, only thing I can advice you is to understand each property and how big advantage it gives to the character. Then you should be able to see how powerfull the item itself is when you look into properties list.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Jackrabbit_Slim]

               Thanks for the responses. Again, i know how to spawn the treasure, i've used silicon scouts treasure system since it was released and just love it.

It's just deciding what to drop to what levels to keep balance. It seems the answer is just trial and error.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_SHOVA]

               If all your going to add is the standard items that Bio-made, it won't take long before you get, "oh boy, another cloak +1, whooppiee!" Your probably going to want to make your own Items.
The format I follow, for low end magic items, is:
never give more than +3 to a skill.
never give general + items, rather make it + against something specific.
give Save vs, instead of damage resistance.
never give more than 1 stat bonus to any item.
never give more than one extra spell slot per item.
never give more than 3 total properties to any item.
and, never, ever, give items with immunity, haste, or regeneration.
I also do not make items properties that take away the use of having a class ability. for example, I do not give items that remove the need to have a thief (yes I am old school) in a party.
Of course, some may disagree, as there is no set low magic level, its to the builders taste. If you need further help, let me know.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Pstemarie]

               For a more appropriate response to the OP - what I get for skimming threads  Anyway...

As a long time pnp DM, I'd say that, although NWN is clearly NOT pnp, amny of the same caveats used for dropping loot in low-level pnp adventures would apply. Note, these are just my personal caveats, so you can do with them what you will.

Of all the levels, 1st-level adventures are probably the most difficult to plan for. If you follow the DMG recommendations, it should take roughly four adventures to advance a level. In reality, at such a pace low-level players would never play much past 4th level - they'd become bored to death. IMO, it should take at the most two adventures to advance to second level. This being said you should not be dropping items as treasure that are not suitable for the goal level (e.g, the level the players will be at in the next adventure).

So what is suitable treasure for a 1st-level adventure?

A good place to start is anything expendable that will not upset the balance of encounters: low-level potions (level one spells), tier one healing kits and thieves tools, masterwork armor (in the case of NWN, use armor that is better than what the character started with), masterwork weapons, and simple magic items (about one per PC) that mimic level one spells or enhance a single ability or skill by +1. If you give gold, do not give more total gold than the maximum allowed to a starting character.

Then as the characters advance in level you increment the items accordingly. Thus at 3rd-level the PCs should be typically finding items that mimic 1st to 2nd level spells, low-level (e.g. +1 bonus) weapons and armor, etc. You can always adjust the quality or quantity of what they find based upon personal preferences - is your module low-magic or high-magic or somewhere between the two.

Of course, all of the above is reliant upon whether or not you want to take the time to poulate each container or monster/NPC individually - my personal preference. While it may seem extreme to have such finite control over treasure in your module, IMO its really no more finite than what any good pnp DM would do.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_ffbj]

               For monster drops I have % chance based on level difference between the killer and killed. So a 10% chance they drop something if of the same level and -1% thereafter for every level higher.  So a 10th lvl PC killing a 1st level monster would have 0% chance of the creature dropping anything.  I check left hand, right hand, and chest slots.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Tonden_Ockay]

               

For monster drops I have % chance based on level difference between the killer and killed. So a 10% chance they drop something if of the same level and -1% thereafter for every level higher. So a 10th lvl PC killing a 1st level monster would have 0% chance of the creature dropping anything. I check left hand, right hand, and chest slots.

 

Where do you change the % at?