Help for solving the dm client crash

[Legacy_Hillyan]

               My problem is simple and is terrible.
I have a large pw and after months of building up the world now i can't get in as a dm.

The loading bar of the first area foes to 75% and then stop there, it's a crash.

I have fear that is the 16,000 limit exceeded.

Now. I want to remove creatures and items that i don't use.
Is there a way to do this without manually deleting one by one from the toolset? Can i open the mod and delete a large quantity of objects?
I use the cep add sb hak of the cep 2.1 with all the blueprints but i've done the stupid thing to import it as an erf
LOL

Can i remove all that material?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lightfoot8]

               If you have hit the 16K limit, you should not have to delete any of your blueprints. The only thing you would need to do is remove them from the palette that the DM uses.  Resorces do not have to be on a palette in order for the game to use them.  

First here is the Information on the pallettes that you can use for referance for what I am going to suggest.

Documentation: ITP Format


Second here is a GFF editor that Bioware put out and is also the mail tool they used for editing pallettes.

Example Tool: Download GFF Editor (Win32 Only)

It is unfortantly a windows tool only.


You have a choice here, you can either modify the skelton pallete( the pallete that is used to create the pallete) or the custom pallete itself.

The custom pallete would be the easiest to get to so that is the methoid i will discribe here. 

• Open the module in the toolset.
  
  
• open the temp folder in the modules folder in the nwn directory. 
  
  
• find the custom pallete that you want to modify. They are:
  
   
  • creaturepalcus.itp
  • doorpalcus.itp
  • encounterpalcus.itp
  • itempalcus.itp
  • placeablepalcus.itp
  • soundpalcus.itp
  • storepalcus.itp
  • triggerpalcus.itp
  • waypointpalcus.itp
• Remove the file from the folder for editing.
  
  
• Close the Toolset.
  
  
• open the custom pallete with the GFF editor.
  
  
• Delete either single items (leafs) or entire catagorys/branches that you do not thing the DM will have need of.
  
  
• Save your changes to the palette and close the GFF editor. 
  
  
• Place your modified file in the override folder and then start the server.
• Try to log in as a DM.

Now the toolset will end up useing the same palette that you have in the override folder, Overriding the one you have in the mod file.  All you need to do in this case to have access to the full palette is remove it from the override folder before you start the toolset.  After starting the toolset if you stoll do not have a full palette all you have to do is right click on the palette in the toolset and select refresh.  Once you are done building just place your palette back in the override to limit the DM pallete. 


The other methoid is the modify the skeleton pallete. exstracting it either from the bif files or the cep top hak, If the cep already has an overide in place.  With it you would change the Type field for the node in the gff.  The advantage here is, that after building new items for the module, all you have to do is swap out the skelton palletes and then refresh the pallete to have the toolset remove the catagorys that the DM does not need on the palette.

And let me say this just one more time.  The items Do not have to be on the palette inorder for the game to be able to use them.  They are only on the pallette so the builder and DM can have access to them. 
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lightfoot8, 24 septembre 2010 - 09:29 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Bardin]

               Or you can also use the DeImporter 0.10beta from the Vault.

(Though I would follow Lightfoot's suggestion above regardless to help out as well.)
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Bardin, 25 septembre 2010 - 03:45 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Hillyan]

               One problem. When i save the file, it does not save correctly. It saves correctly only if i save with name(as a gff file).



Thanks to all, i've combined all the tips in one simple method:

- I open the toolset

- I open gff editor and open the .itp files to see the resref

- Then i delete the blueprints that i do not use(i have hundreds unused!)



The tip about the dm pallette is something i will use in case the actual tactic will not work!^^
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Hillyan]

               Is there a way to know if i has hit the 16k limit?



Now i've 14,500 items in my temp folder of the mod. I'm deleting resources that i do not use.

And is there other possible reasons to mine crashes?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lightfoot8]

               Even if you saved the edited .itp as a .gff they are the same file type. All you would have to do is rename the file with a .itp extention.

If I understand right, your crash is happening to the DM client, and not the server.  If that is the case the number of object on one of the palettes is most likely the cause.     Keep in mind the number of items on the palette comes from the mod and the haks.     So if your haks have say 15500 blueprints for items you will overload the palette by adding only 500 blueprints to the module.   Same thing goes for each of the other palettes. creatures/placeables/encounters.....


There is no harm in, and is a good idea to delete the stuff out of the module that you are not useing.  There are times however when you may want to remove some of the stuff from the haks from the palette without actualy removing the haks.  That is where editing the palette files come in the most handy.
 
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lightfoot8, 26 septembre 2010 - 09:21 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Hillyan]

               Ok. I'm trying to solve this thing. I've done several tests and i post them to help others that have the same problem.

For now these are test. I think i will solve the problem and if will be so, i think these tests and this post should be taken to a stick thread.



My Problem:

- Only with the dm client, at the 75%(also 80%) of the loading bar of the first area (it doesn't care what area is) the game crashes and the loading bar freezes herself. Then i have to close the program via control-alt-canc.



The Hypothesis:

- Reading on the net it's clear that's the problem of th 16,000 resources on the pallette limit. I've read all about and understood that it's a complex problem and it kills the pw affected.



The Tests:

- To solve this problem i preferred to delete the resources that i don't use. It will make my mod lighter and faster and it will solve the problem. There is the method of the pallette that is a more elegant method but if you have an heavy mod, i think deleting resources is better.

I've tried to identify the problem without troubles.

My first test:

with the mod opened, i open the temp folder of the mod(in the folder modules of NWN) and i delete the resources that i don't use but in a number of 500 UTP (placeables). Then i've tried to log in to see if it worked. Now i will list my tests:



Test



0 - deleted all the resources but not the file ARE* dm bug OFF (*=areas)



With this first test i've found that the problem is in the resources. Now i've to identify better the source and the entity of it.



1 - deleted 500 UTP* dm bug still there (*=placeables)

2 - deleted 1000 UTP dm bug still there

3 - deleted 2200 (all) UTP dm bug still there



4 - deleted 500 UTI* dm bug still there (*=items)

5 - deleted 1000 UTI dm bug still there

6 - deleted 3200 UTI (all) dm bug OFF



Good with the sixth test i've found my problem, or the origin of it. Now i can say that if i delete 3200 UTI my mod will work. Now. Can i say that is an UTI only problem? Tests again.



7 - deleted 2590 UTI + 833 UTC* dm bug OFF (*=creatures)



Good it's not a UTI only related problem. It's a "number" problem. Try to identify the quantity, the number. 3200 seems to be the the overloaded resources but try to identify better the exact number at which i have a problem.



8 - Test Alpha deleted 1240 UTC + 760 UTI (total 2000) dm bug OFF



Now i know that i have to delete only 2000 resources from UTC and UTI to make my mod work.



9 - Test Beta deleted 1483 UTC + 17 UTI (total 1500) dm bug OFF



This is an important test cause we can see that the number is not superior to 1499. This number seems to be connected in some way to the result of the test 3 and 6(3: 2200 UTP does not solve the problem, 6: 3200 UTI solve the problem).



Ok. I'm deleting from tonight the resources from the tempo folder. I've deleted already 750 UTC from my mod. I will continue to delete until 1500 resources and then i will test the mod.

I've imported some months ago something like 2000 creatures and items from and old mod that was the same as my new mod, to work faster on it. But i've reached the limit and now i have to repair the thing.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Hillyan]

               I've solved the problem deleting 1500 resources manually from my tempo folder. Now all works. Thanks to all.

I think the post above should be a stickie.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_archer4217]

               So, tell me if I understand this right. I would be able to use this method to remove all that stuff they put in the custom palette in cep 2.3? The only reason I don't want to use 2.3 is because it's so bloated, but if I could get rid of all that stuff, I'd do the happy dance.:happy:

Lightfoot8 wrote...

If you have hit the 16K limit, you should not have to delete any of your blueprints. The only thing you would need to do is remove them from the palette that the DM uses.  Resorces do not have to be on a palette in order for the game to use them.  

First here is the Information on the pallettes that you can use for referance for what I am going to suggest.

Documentation: ITP Format


Second here is a GFF editor that Bioware put out and is also the mail tool they used for editing pallettes.

Example Tool: Download GFF Editor (Win32 Only)

It is unfortantly a windows tool only.


You have a choice here, you can either modify the skelton pallete( the pallete that is used to create the pallete) or the custom pallete itself.

The custom pallete would be the easiest to get to so that is the methoid i will discribe here. 

• Open the module in the toolset.
  
  
• open the temp folder in the modules folder in the nwn directory. 
  
  
• find the custom pallete that you want to modify. They are:
  
   
  • creaturepalcus.itp
  • doorpalcus.itp
  • encounterpalcus.itp
  • itempalcus.itp
  • placeablepalcus.itp
  • soundpalcus.itp
  • storepalcus.itp
  • triggerpalcus.itp
  • waypointpalcus.itp
• Remove the file from the folder for editing.
  
  
• Close the Toolset.
  
  
• open the custom pallete with the GFF editor.
  
  
• Delete either single items (leafs) or entire catagorys/branches that you do not thing the DM will have need of.
  
  
• Save your changes to the palette and close the GFF editor. 
  
  
• Place your modified file in the override folder and then start the server.
• Try to log in as a DM.

Now the toolset will end up useing the same palette that you have in the override folder, Overriding the one you have in the mod file.  All you need to do in this case to have access to the full palette is remove it from the override folder before you start the toolset.  After starting the toolset if you stoll do not have a full palette all you have to do is right click on the palette in the toolset and select refresh.  Once you are done building just place your palette back in the override to limit the DM pallete. 


The other methoid is the modify the skeleton pallete. exstracting it either from the bif files or the cep top hak, If the cep already has an overide in place.  With it you would change the Type field for the node in the gff.  The advantage here is, that after building new items for the module, all you have to do is swap out the skelton palletes and then refresh the pallete to have the toolset remove the catagorys that the DM does not need on the palette.

And let me say this just one more time.  The items Do not have to be on the palette inorder for the game to be able to use them.  They are only on the pallette so the builder and DM can have access to them. 

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_kalbaern]

               

archer4217 wrote...

So, tell me if I understand this right. I would be able to use this method to remove all that stuff they put in the custom palette in cep 2.3? The only reason I don't want to use 2.3 is because it's so bloated, but if I could get rid of all that stuff, I'd do the happy dance.:happy:

Lightfoot8 wrote...

If you have hit the 16K limit, you should not have to delete any of your blueprints. The only thing you would need to do is remove them from the palette that the DM uses.  Resorces do not have to be on a palette in order for the game to use them.  

First here is the Information on the pallettes that you can use for referance for what I am going to suggest.

Documentation: ITP Format


Second here is a GFF editor that Bioware put out and is also the mail tool they used for editing pallettes.

Example Tool: Download GFF Editor (Win32 Only)

It is unfortantly a windows tool only.


You have a choice here, you can either modify the skelton pallete( the pallete that is used to create the pallete) or the custom pallete itself.

The custom pallete would be the easiest to get to so that is the methoid i will discribe here. 

• Open the module in the toolset.
  
  
  
  
• open the temp folder in the modules folder in the nwn directory. 
  
  
  
  
• find the custom pallete that you want to modify. They are:
  
   
  • creaturepalcus.itp
    
    
  • doorpalcus.itp
    
    
  • encounterpalcus.itp
    
    
  • itempalcus.itp
    
    
  • placeablepalcus.itp
    
    
  • soundpalcus.itp
    
    
  • storepalcus.itp
    
    
  • triggerpalcus.itp
    
    
  • waypointpalcus.itp
  
  
  
• Remove the file from the folder for editing.
  
  
  
  
• Close the Toolset.
  
  
  
  
• open the custom pallete with the GFF editor.
  
  
  
  
• Delete either single items (leafs) or entire catagorys/branches that you do not thing the DM will have need of.
  
  
  
  
• Save your changes to the palette and close the GFF editor. 
  
  
  
  
• Place your modified file in the override folder and then start the server.
  
  
• Try to log in as a DM.

Now the toolset will end up useing the same palette that you have in the override folder, Overriding the one you have in the mod file.  All you need to do in this case to have access to the full palette is remove it from the override folder before you start the toolset.  After starting the toolset if you stoll do not have a full palette all you have to do is right click on the palette in the toolset and select refresh.  Once you are done building just place your palette back in the override to limit the DM pallete. 


The other methoid is the modify the skeleton pallete. exstracting it either from the bif files or the cep top hak, If the cep already has an overide in place.  With it you would change the Type field for the node in the gff.  The advantage here is, that after building new items for the module, all you have to do is swap out the skelton palletes and then refresh the pallete to have the toolset remove the catagorys that the DM does not need on the palette.

And let me say this just one more time.  The items Do not have to be on the palette inorder for the game to be able to use them.  They are only on the pallette so the builder and DM can have access to them. 

For a bloat free CEP 2.3, just omit the following haks from the module. "cep2_add_sb_v1", "cep2_build" and "cep2_crp_s". All of these hold the pallette inflating blueprints. You'll still gain the new tilesets and appearances.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_archer4217]

               Kalbaern, thank you so much! '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Ivanovich]

               I'd like to bump this topic, because I've run into it.  

If I run the DM client and server on the same machine (ie, just using the DM client and making a "NEW" internet/lan game, I log in just fine.  If I put the module on the server, and try to log on with the DM client, it times out and disconnects.  Any thoughts on what that might be?  I'm under the pallete limit.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_kalbaern]

               Are you connecting via LAN when you launch the server and then try to log in from the same computer as a DM? Does it time out if you login as a player or only as a DM?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Ivanovich]

               When on my own machine, I start a new LAN game and log into the module just fine.  No issues.  Then I try connecting to the remote machine with the exact same module and exact same hak packs.  I time out.  If I try to connect as a player, all is well.  But as a DM, it times out every time.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Ivanovich]

               Alright, I've pulled apart the entire module (which was no small feat considering it's size) and found that in the cep2_top_v23 hak, the file "visualeffects.2da" is the issue.  Remove it and the DM client can connect on the remote machine.  Put it back in, and only players can connect, but the DM times out.  Nevermind that it works fine on the home machine no matter what.  I cannot, for the life of me, figure out why this would be, but it is.

Now to figure out what part of the file is causing the issue, and why.